27 minutes ago, Shan Jan said:

Opet mi je nekako bolje da kidnapuju lidera i postave svog coveka nego da razore celu zemlju i postave svog coveka, kao do sada.

upravo ovo, ne sviđa ti se politika nekog vlastodršca, uhapsi njega ili ga likvidiraj, ako je potrebno i ministre, ostavi obične građane na miru, ne ruši mostove i elektrane i rafinerije, ne ubijaj hiljade ljudi ako ne moraš, a ako je u pitanju vlada koja zaista ima podršku u narodu, ičak i nakon obezglavljivanja vrha, tek onda klasičan rat

mislim da je venecuela izbegla rat iz dva razloga, prvo trampara nije marioneta vojno-industrijskog komplexa i drugo ameri su isprobali sve svoje igračke u ukr i ispucali džebanu u iranu pre par meseci, pa im vojna vežba i nije bila potrebna

53 minutes ago, Engineer said:

Pretražio sam i ostale usual suspects koji znaju da udaraju kontru. Španija i Slovačka takođe osudile kršenje MP i vojnu akciju bez SB UN. Mađarska i Češka ćute, nema komentara. Irska kao poziva na poštovanje MP, ali ne sa direktnom osudom. Poljski PM ispisao celu stranu i ništa nije rekao.

Nije to jedan novi nivo. To je isti nivo koji diktatori i čvrstorukaši drže oduvek. Nego ljudi nisu verovali da je Tramp takav. A ovi što se zgražavaju na "došli smo po naftu i da upravljamo državom" i dalje ne shvataju da ljudi glasaju za Trampa i slične baš zbog toga - omogućava im da konačno mogu javno da budu stoka i banditi i da ne moraju više da se kriju i pretvaraju.

Republika Irska stoji na principima postovanja UN pravila, to je deo irskog zakona o neutralnosti, a posto je UN izrazio zabrinutost zbog akcije iza toga stoji Republika Irska.

Ono sto je zanimljivo je komentar na temu koji je postavljen na naslovnoj irske drzavne televizije RTE

America's pretence of respecting sovereignty in Latin America is over

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2026/0103/1551350-venezuela-us/

In the years after the 2003 capture of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, the West absorbed a hard lesson: forcible regime change was too messy, too costly and too unpredictable.

The NATO-led intervention in Libya in 2011, which ultimately led to the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi, only reinforced the lesson. The state collapsed. Civil war followed.

By the time Barack Obama had to consider intervention in Syria in 2013, a quiet consensus had formed: forcible regime change was off the table, no matter how brutal the dictator.

That consensus died before dawn this morning in Caracas.

By now, it's become a bit exhausting to write about the ways in which Donald Trump has torn up the rulebooks, flouted norms, upended precedent, ignored allies, violated conventions, bulldozed constraints, treated consensus as optional - pick your editorial cliché.

On the surface, the Venezuela operation is nothing like the massive operations in Iraq or Libya.

The more obvious parallel, of course, is Panama in 1989.

American forces invaded the country to depose military strongman Manuel Noriega, also on drug charges, also in Latin America.

But that operation deployed 26,000 troops and dragged on for a fortnight until Noriega, who had sought sanctuary in the Vatican embassy, surrendered. Some 23 US troops were killed.

By comparison, the raid on Nicolas Maduro’s home inside the heavily guarded Fort Tiuna military installation in Caracas was surgical.

"It was an incredible thing to see," Mr Trump said this afternoon.

"Not a single American service member was killed. And not a single piece of American equipment was lost."

On those terms alone, the swift capture of Maduro would mark a clean break from the messy occupations of the past.

But Donald Trump has made it clear that the mission doesn’t end there.

The United States, he said, will run Venezuela until "a just transition" can be achieved.

He spoke of making the Venezuelan people "rich, independent and safe", of ending their suffering.

Like past US expeditions, the rhetoric of liberation is there, the pretence of nation building.

And so is the oil calculation.

When asked who would run Venezuela, Mr Trump spoke immediately about American energy companies rebuilding the country’s infrastructure - and making money from it.

"We are going to run the country right," he said.

"It’s going to make a lot of money."

As Mr Trump described it, this morning’s operation sounded less like a one-off raid and more like the opening act - and he didn’t leave much to the imagination.

Mr Trump warned that the US is prepared to launch "a second and much larger attack" on Venezuela if it is deemed necessary.

"We’re not afraid of boots on the ground if we have to have them," Mr Trump said.

But what will reverberate beyond Venezuela is the principle he invoked to justify it.

This, he said, isn’t just about Maduro. It’s about US dominance of the Western hemisphere - and reviving a two-century-old doctrine first articulated by James Monroe, the fifth American president.

In 1823, President Monroe warned European powers against intervention in the Americas - effectively declaring them America’s sphere of influence.

"Under the Trump administration, we are reasserting American power in a very powerful way in our home region," Mr Trump said today, claiming the US had forgotten about the Monroe doctrine.

"But we don’t forget about it anymore. Under our new national security strategy, American dominance in the Western hemisphere will never be questioned again. It won’t happen."

In other words, Mr Trump has declared that the US reserves the right to unilaterally determine who governs in the Americas - and by force, if necessary.

The pretence of respecting sovereignty in Latin America is over, and the post-Iraq consensus died with it.

In his first term, Mr Trump tried sanctions and diplomacy. Now he’s shown he’ll use direct action. The authoritarian leaders of Cuba and Nicaragua will have taken note.

But so too will America’s rivals beyond the hemisphere.

If the US can do this to Venezuela, what’s the principle that says China can’t do it to Taiwan’s president, or Russia to a leader in the Baltics?

Edited January 4Jan 4 by Emerald

6 minutes ago, gone fishing said:

upravo ovo, ne sviđa ti se politika nekog vlastodršca, uhapsi njega ili ga likvidiraj, ako je potrebno i ministre, ostavi obične građane na miru, ne ruši mostove i elektrane i rafinerije, ne ubijaj hiljade ljudi ako ne moraš, a ako je u pitanju vlada koja zaista ima podršku u narodu, ičak i nakon obezglavljivanja vrha, tek onda klasičan rat

mislim da je venecuela izbegla rat iz dva razloga, prvo trampara nije marioneta vojno-industrijskog komplexa i drugo ameri su isprobali sve svoje igračke u ukr i ispucali džebanu u iranu pre par meseci, pa im vojna vežba i nije bila potrebna

To ne ide tako kako vi zamisljate, postoje razlozi zasto su vrsene invazije.

Ali to je manji problem da neko drugi moze ovo da koristi kao izgovor ako se oseti sposobno i dovoljno jako.

Kako rece komentatot na irskoj drzavnoj tv

But so too will America’s rivals beyond the hemisphere.

If the US can do this to Venezuela, what’s the principle that says China can’t do it to Taiwan’s president, or Russia to a leader in the Baltics?

Ja bih ovo prosirio na nize nivoe, na regionalne price.

Postoji razlog zasto se ovo do sada nije desavalo.

Edited January 4Jan 4 by Emerald

Navodno je Delsi radikalnija od Madura. Klip je od pre mesec dana.

https://x.com/iamGermania/status/1997380698303332495

Edited January 4Jan 4 by vememah

2 hours ago, đorđe geprat said:

svinjarija koja daje za pravo kini i rusiji da intervenišu na sličan način. ispostavlja se smo dobili još jedan nivo terorizma. državni.

Svet se deli na putinofile i putinofobe.

Recino, Tramp je putinofil.

6 minutes ago, vememah said:

Navodno je Delsi radikalnija od Madura. Klip je od pre mesec dana.

https://x.com/iamGermania/status/1997380698303332495

Inače, još sredinom oktobra se spekulisalo o njenim pregovorima s Amerikancima s Katarcima kao posrednicima.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article312516272.html

Pa dobro, uhapsiće i nju. Šta je problem?

Inače, još sredinom oktobra se spekulisalo o njenim pregovorima s Amerikancima preko katarskih posrednika.

16.10.2025.

A group of senior Venezuelan government officials, led by Vice President Delcy Rodríguez and her brother Jorge, who is president of the National Assembly, have quietly promoted a series of initiatives in recent months aimed at presenting themselves to Washington as a “more acceptable” alternative to Nicolás Maduro’s regime, according to people with direct knowledge of the talks.

The proposals, funneled through intermediaries in Qatar, sought to persuade sectors of the U.S. government that a “Madurismo without Maduro” could enable a peaceful transition in Venezuela—preserving political stability without dismantling the ruling apparatus.

According to the sources, Qatari mediators presented to the U.S. two formal proposals this year, one in April and another in September. Both outlined potential governing mechanisms without Maduro in power. In those scenarios, Delcy Rodríguez would serve as the institutional continuity figure, while retired Gen. Miguel Rodríguez Torres, who is currently in exile and is not related to the Rodriguez siblings, would head a transitional government.

The central argument, the sources said, was that the Rodríguez siblings represent a “more palatable” version of so-called chavismo — the socialist ideology named for deceased leader Hugo Chávez — for Washington, since neither has been indicted on narcotrafficking charges by U.S. courts. However, former regime officials— whose accounts have been used by U.S. prosecutors in cases linked to the so-called Cartel of the Suns—have implicated both siblings in logistical support and money laundering operations.

Sources told the Miami Herald the offers though Qatar were made with Maduro’s approval.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article312516272.html

Edited January 4Jan 4 by vememah

9 minutes ago, vememah said:

Navodno je Delsi radikalnija od Madura. Klip je od pre mesec dana.

https://x.com/iamGermania/status/1997380698303332495

Koga boli djoka..to je problem naroda u Venecueli a ne onih koji ce da je postave na celo zemlje.

10 hours ago, Venom said:

Sve u svemu, jedna zemlja je ušetala u drugu i "uhapsila" predsednika. Nije im bilo mnogo do cimanja da to nekako zamaskiraju, u 21. veku im je bilo lakše da izjave da po njihovom mišljenju on zapravo nije predsednik i da im se može. Za mene je ovo događaj na nivou 9/11 u smislu da nakon ovog više ništa neće biti isto.

To su vec radili, i ako ostane na ovome, i ne naprave im dodatni gradjanski rat, moze samo da se pozdravi. Ako pogledas Irak koliko je zrtava palo za njihovu naftu, ili Ukrajinu, koliko je naroda Putin poslao na onaj svet ni krive ni duzne, Venecuela da se nadam da bude neki slucaj kad te invazije ne rade sa katastrofalnim brojem ubijenih ljudi...

43 minutes ago, April said:

Svet se deli na putinofile i putinofobe.

Recino, Tramp je putinofil.

smejurija.

11 hours ago, Mindaugas Žukauskas said:

Kao moderacija smo izuzetno zabrinuti što niko dosad nije tražio da se tema preimenuje u 'Agresija na Venecuelu'

A onih 11 najboljih forumasa sto su napustili forum zgadjeni i sokirani nedovoljnim intenzitetom osude Amerike, to se pravimo mrtvi, mm?

ja jutros slusam na radiju da su delsi rodrigez i brat joj navodno bili u dosluhu s amerima i da je citava ova ujdurma s kidnapovanje modura obavljena zahvaljujuci njihovoj saradnji. i da je to glavni razlog sto se opozicija i ne pominje nego se iza kulisa dogovaraju koje americke firme ce preuzeti naftnu industriju. plus kazu da trump nije zaboravio da mu je machado 'ukrala' nobela. uzimam sa zrnom soli al ne deluje potpuno blesavo jer fakat su ameri morali imati informacije od nekog vrlo bliskog prezidenteu.

ono sto me plasi je to da ovo nece proci mirno kao sto sad deluje. vise mi deluje da je u pitanju neko zatisje pred buru. nadam se da nisam u pravu.

edit, samo da dodam

Keir Starmer refuses to condemn US attack on Venezuela

The British prime minister, Keir Starmer, has been urged by opposition parties to condemn the US military action in Venezuela.

Starmer has been repeatedly accused of kowtowing to the Trump administration, wanting to keep on side of Washington for economic and security reasons.

On the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme this morning, Starmer was asked if he wanted to condemn the US attack on the sovereign country.

“I want to get all the material facts together and we simply haven’t got the full picture at the moment – it is fast moving,” he said, confirming again that there was no UK involvement in the US military operation.

The Labour leader said he needs to speak to Trump and other UK allies before commenting further. He said “he has been a lifelong advocate for international law” but refuses to condemn the US attack as he “wants to ensure he has all the facts” at his “disposal”.

Edited January 4Jan 4 by adam

8 minutes ago, adam said:

ja jutros slusam na radiju da su delsi rodrigez i brat joj navodno bili u dosluhu s amerima i da je citava ova ujdurma s kidnapovanje modura obavljena zahvaljujuci njihovoj saradnji. i da je to glavni razlog sto se opozicija i ne pominje nego se iza kulisa dogovaraju koje americke firme ce preuzeti naftnu industriju. plus kazu da trump nije zaboravio da mu je machado 'ukrala' nobela. uzimam sa zrnom soli al ne deluje potpuno blesavo jer fakat su ameri morali imati informacije od nekog vrlo bliskog prezidenteu.

ono sto me plasi je to da ovo nece proci mirno kao sto sad deluje. vise mi deluje da je u pitanju neko zatisje pred buru. nadam se da nisam u pravu.

edit, samo da dodam

Keir Starmer refuses to condemn US attack on Venezuela

The British prime minister, Keir Starmer, has been urged by opposition parties to condemn the US military action in Venezuela.

Starmer has been repeatedly accused of kowtowing to the Trump administration, wanting to keep on side of Washington for economic and security reasons.

On the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme this morning, Starmer was asked if he wanted to condemn the US attack on the sovereign country.

“I want to get all the material facts together and we simply haven’t got the full picture at the moment – it is fast moving,” he said, confirming again that there was no UK involvement in the US military operation.

The Labour leader said he needs to speak to Trump and other UK allies before commenting further. He said “he has been a lifelong advocate for international law” but refuses to condemn the US attack as he “wants to ensure he has all the facts” at his “disposal”.

Mislim da su se veliki igraci dogovorili. Ameri ce dobiti deo nacionalizovanog ali ce Rusi i Kinezi imati i dalje uticaja u bliskoj buducnosti, pa ce se nastaviti "rokati" posredno do konacne istrage. Rezim opstaje, zrtvovan je jedan zarad toga. Tramp je dobio veliku pobedu sa kojom ce da mase svaki put kada ga pritisnu unutar SAD i pred izbore za Kongres u Novembru.

Tako meni sada izgleda, ko zna sta ce stvarno biti.

edit

Ono sto je problem sto je napravljen ozbiljan presedan sa otmicom predsednika drzave.

Edited January 4Jan 4 by Emerald

1 hour ago, Amos said:

Pa dobro, uhapsiće i nju. Šta je problem?

Upravo, ili će da play ball ili će opet da opušteno lete helikopteri dok PVO spava.

Trampara pro business, ne zanima ga ideologija as long as the Spice flows. A ne kao ove Germanije sa Tvitera što bi da im on uspostavi slobodno tržište robe i ideja.

Edit: Naravno, pre svega ga zanima da upiše W i odjebe sa scene uz gromoglasan aplauz. Tako je i Iran pobedio™ za 12 dana.

Edited January 4Jan 4 by Weenie Pooh