Politika u UK

[hazard]

14 minutes ago, pacey defender said:

U vezi svega što Brave Margot ovde piše, ja samo mogu načelno i sa strane da kažem da u ovom trenutku za levičare u UK ne može biti većeg interesa  od sprečavanja Brexita. Najveća borba protiv austerity je borba protiv Brexit. To se uostalom može sagledati kada se uzme u obzir ko se najviše zalaže za izlazak bez deala. Odnosno, najveći austerity nastupiće ako UK izađe iz EU, a najnajnajveći ako se to dogodi bez deala. Prosto, ekonomija će da ode dole, pa ni šest egalitarnih Korbina neće imati šta da preraspodeljuje ka školama, železnicama i bolnicama. Zapravo, Korbinov odnos prema Brexitu bi za svakog levičara trebalo da bude znak za uzbunu. LIBDEM platforma protiv Brexita je zapravo više u interesu radnog naroda UK nego Korbinovo nećkanje  i taktiziranje o Brexitu sa pratećom socijalnom komponentom. 

 

Da, ovo i ja mislim. To je zamene no brainer. Vrlo efektivno rečeno.

[hazard]

2 hours ago, BraveMargot said:

libdemsi su direktno odgovorni sto je kameron dobio izbore i raspisao referendum time sto su normalizovali torijevsku stranku. zato je kleg i pukao na izborima od nekog klinca (za kog se posle ispostavilo da je dosta los), samo iz tog revolta. a dani aleksander je iste godine pukao u svojoj izbornoj jedinici od meri blek, koja je tada imala 21 godinu i mislim da nije jos bila ni zavrsila fakultet.

 

Na ovo sam zaboravio da se osvrnem, a hteo sam još ranije. Dakle kada kažem da mi neke stvari ne idu u glavu, onda je to npr. ovo.

 

Kako može Kleg biti odgovoran za ,,normalizovanje" torijevaca? Ispada da su torijevci neki UKIP ili BNP ili šta već pa da ih je neko normalizovao uvlačenjem u koaliciju, a ne stranka koja postoji od 19. veka i koja svako malo vlada Britanijom. Valjda su je normalizovali oni milioni koji su glasali za nju, a ne Kleg. Ja ne sporim revolt protiv LDs 2015. niti da je bio opravdan iz ugla njihovih glasača. Sve se tu slažem. Ali gde su ti glasači onda otišli...sigurno ne Kameronu? Ako pizdiš što je Kleg suviše popuštao Kameronu, zašto bi glasao za - Kamerona? Valjda ćeš za nekog drugog. Kleg je izgubio od laburiste, ne od konzervativca. Nekako je logično da glavni ,,krivci" za rezultat 2015. budu Kameron i Miliband, a ne neko treći. Možda jednostavno Miliband nije bio dovoljno prijemčiv za glasače? Kao i Braun 2010.?

 

Mislim nebitno je. Samo kažem da ja ovakvo političko rezonovanje ne razumem. U svakom slučaju nema nekog smisla da dalje o ovome raspravljamo, nećemo približiti stavove.

[BraveMargot]

opet zamena teza. radi se o tome da je glasacko telo libdema i torijevaca povezano a ne o tome za koga bih ja glasala. dakle to sto je nekim liberalima delovalo 2015 da ova torijevska vlada i nije toliko losa navelo ih je da glasaju za torijevce, a posto oni dele slicno izborno telo (zona preseka su bogatiji ljudi srednje klase). to nisam ja izmislila, to mozes procitati u raznim analizama.

[BraveMargot]

da dodam: idi gledaj analize izbora i gledaj gde su izgubili mpjeve i koliko ih je otislo labouru a koliko torijevcima. nije to tako jednostavno kao sto ti opisujes, da su svi koji su glasali za libdeme glasali za milibandov labour, naprotiv.

Edited September 5, 2019 by BraveMargot

[vememah]

Quote

The government last night called off its efforts to filibuster the cross-party bill to legislate against a no-deal Brexit in the House of Lords. The plan to talk the bill out in the Lords – which led several peers to turn up with sleeping gear and razors in preparation for a long shift – had been seen as a long shot but worth a try.

For the filibustering to be called off is in theory strange optics from a government hell-bent on proving it has done everything possible to fight a delay to Brexit. What the government is trying to do, however, is remove Jeremy Corbyn’s excuse for refusing to agree to a general election.
...
Corbyn is under pressure from figures including Keir Starmer to hold off on an early election until after an extension has been requested on 19 October.
...
There’s talk within government of proposing a one-line bill that would say something along the lines of “not withstanding the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, there will be an election on 15 October”. That would require a simple majority – and the SNP has suggested it could back such a measure. However, what’s troubling government figures is that such a vote would be amendable and after a mass operation to withdraw the whip from Tory Brexit rebels this week, Johnson is far short of a working majority. One member of government tells me they fear an amendment could be added to try to change the date – or reduce the voting age to 16. “They could make the circumstances for an election very difficult for us.”

Should Labour resistance continue and a bill be viewed as too risky, there are a handful of other options Johnson could try. There’s some talk in the party of Johnson trying to call a confidence motion in himself – would Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour really want to go on the record saying they had confidence in a Tory prime minister?

Or, if the bill reaches royal assent and there is pressure on Johnson to request a delay, he could simply refuse and see what his critics do. Launch a legal challenge? Perhaps.

But the one thing Downing Street is adamant about is that Johnson will not request a Brexit delay in any shape or form. Should push come to shove, the prime minister could resign rather than go through with it. Johnson could suggest that the Queen ask Corbyn to request and sign any extension, thereby putting pressure on the remain alliance, and highlighting rifts over a so-called government of national unity. Such a move would also be seized on by Tories in an eventual election as proof Corbyn was against Brexit. In the topsy-turvy world of Brexit, the unthinkable is now possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/05/boris-johnson-election-brexit-delay-extension

 

Al' bi bio spektakl da spuste granicu za glasanje na 16 godina (za Džonsona su nedavno na unutarpartijskim izborima glasali i 15-godišnjaci).

Edited September 5, 2019 by vememah

[zorglub]

Ne zamerite što digresiram - jel' ima još levičara (valjda je levičar majku mu) koji su pro-brexit kao Skinner?

[Budja]

2 hours ago, BraveMargot said:

da dodam: idi gledaj analize izbora i gledaj gde su izgubili mpjeve i koliko ih je otislo labouru a koliko torijevcima. nije to tako jednostavno kao sto ti opisujes, da su svi koji su glasali za libdeme glasali za milibandov labour, naprotiv.

 

+ 1

 

Istorijsko jezgro LD je jugozapad Engleske + krajnji sever Skotske  (Setland, i ona Kenedijeva izborna jedinica).

Za LD su se zajabevalai da su sandal wearing bourgeois, oni sto, na primer, povremeno u Glastonburiju bace pogled na Instagram Jelene Djokovic.

Klegov Sefild Halam izborna jedinica je pre izuzetak nego pravilo.

Nece se LD boriti za Sanderlend, niti za polutane po Midlendsu.

 

 

Takodje, zaboravlja se de ja Klegov LD nastao na nasledju Kenedijevog LDa ciji je glavni simbol bila opozicija ratu u Iraku 2003. Tada su pokupili simpatije  levih glasaca u studentskim sredinama.  Da bi naudio LAB s leva, Kleg je rekao ne podizanju skolarina, sto ga je na kraju zakopalo.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Budja

[Budja]

2 hours ago, zorglub said:

Ne zamerite što digresiram - jel' ima još levičara (valjda je levičar majku mu) koji su pro-brexit kao Skinner?

 

Ima. (Njegov duh zivi.)

 

 

[Budja]

Ima i ova istorija.

 

 

Otprilike: soft LAB/LD i Korbin/Momentum

Edited September 5, 2019 by Budja

[Gandalf]

"AM I A LIBERAL?" by John Maynard Keynes

 

If one is born a political animal, it is most uncomfortable not to belong to a party; cold and lonely and futile it is. If your party is strong, and its programme and its philosophy sympathetic, satisfying the gregarious, practical, and intellectual instincts all at the same time, how very agreeable that must be! — worth a large subscription and all one's spare time — that is, if you are a political animal.

...

The Conservative Party will always have its place as a Die-Hard Home... The hereditary principle in the transmission of wealth and the control of business is the reason why the leadership of the Capitalist Cause is weak and stupid. It is too much dominated by third-generation men. Nothing will cause a social institution to decay with more certainty than its attachment to the hereditary principle. It is an illustration of this that by far the oldest of our institutions, the Church, is the one which has always kept itself free from the hereditary taint.

 

Just as the Conservative Party will always have its Die-Hard wing, so the Labour Party will always be flanked by the Party of Catastrophe — Jacobins, Communists, Bolshevists, whatever you choose to call them. This is the party which hates or despises existing institutions and believes that great good will result merely from overthrowing them — or at least that to overthrow them is the necessary preliminary to any great good. This party can only flourish in an atmosphere of social oppression or as a reaction against the Rule of Die-Hard.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Gandalf

[Budja]

Sad gledam debatu.

 

Argumenti Toni Bena su, izgleda, imali direktan uticaj na Leave kampanju: UK kao gutbinik u EU zbog smanjenja trgovine sa ostatkom sveta.

[vememah]

 

[mustang]

jebem ti sunce

 

pre ce eu da se raspadne nego uk da izadje 

 

samo sire strah medju narod i ankcioznost. ima samoubistva da se dignu za 100%

[BraveMargot]

6 hours ago, Budja said:

Caroline

da, sarah lucas je umetnica sto pusi cigaru s jajima na sisama, mada ni caroline lucas nije veganka.

[dragance]

Zelena MP iz Brajtona koja nije vegan??? Šta je sledeće, nije LGBTQI+?

Edited September 5, 2019 by dragance