BrExit?

[Roger Sanchez]

3 minutes ago, MancMellow said:

Ceo britanski pristup evrointegracijama, od samog pocetka, je totalni shambles. Tuzna je cinjenica da je jedini koji je tu nesto stvarno razumeo u stvari Blair. 

Koji je prvi usrao motku, jer nije primijenio prijelazne mjere na A8 proširenje, nego tek kad su Rumunjska i Bugarska ušle, kad je to morao jer se otrov generirao i ušao u skoro sva tkiva. Kao da nije znao da vodi naciju koja je jedva jedvice ratificirala Maastricht? Bolio ga kurac za posljedice

(polish vermin, jel).

 

Inače, vrlo nevjerojatno je da su se za Hrvatsku usudili skratiti to na samo pet godina. KKancelar KKurc to nije smio

[Roger Sanchez]

 

[hazard]

41 minutes ago, Roger Sanchez said:

Koji je prvi usrao motku, jer nije primijenio prijelazne mjere na A8 proširenje,

 

+ milion

 

Bler 2. debil decenije iza Kamerona

[MancMellow]

Ma dobro A8, covek je prosto kapirao da je EU za UK, isto sto je i EU za F i D. Realno nijedan drugi PM to  nikada nije ukapirao. 

[hazard]

Pa nije dobro. Da je to ukapirao onda ne bi uradilo nešto što je kod birača inače naklonjenim laburistima probudilo/stvorilo veliki evroskepticizam. Odlučio da bude veći evrofil od Žana Monea...u Britaniji.

 

Ali OK, ako hoćeš da kažeš da je Bler najviše od svih kapirao značaj EU za UK, onda to pokazuje koliko su svi ostali bili operisani od stvarnosti.

[MancMellow]

6 minutes ago, hazard said:

Pa nije dobro. Da je to ukapirao onda ne bi uradilo nešto što je kod birača inače naklonjenim laburistima probudilo/stvorilo veliki evroskepticizam. Odlučio da bude veći evrofil od Žana Monea...u Britaniji.

 

Ali OK, ako hoćeš da kažeš da je Bler najviše od svih kapirao značaj EU za UK, onda to pokazuje koliko su svi ostali bili operisani od stvarnosti.

to hocu da kazem

[hazard]

Kao što rekoh

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/24/brexit-nightmare-tories-fault-dont-blame-labour

 

Quote

But even once Cameron pratfalled into promising a vote he never wanted to hold, the Conservatives could still have avoided disaster. With a working majority in parliament and a five-year term guaranteed by the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, the government had room to do things properly.

 

It’s generally a bad idea to hold referendums when the government of the day doesn’t support the change proposition, because of the exact problems we’ve seen over the past two years. But if you must do so, the trick is to be very, very clear about what the vote entails.

 

That means model legislation in place before the election, charting exactly the process from A to B; it means a neutral arbiter, such as a citizens’ assembly, to keep campaigning reality-based; and it means committing to follow those promises through to completion on the other side, whatever the outcome. It also means someone in the British government actually noticing that Northern Ireland has a pretty shaky constitutional settlement , which maybe should be addressed before the vote.

 

We did not get those things. We got disaster. Worse, once Cameron had quit, throwing the already murky mandate of the leave victory (leave how?) into even greater confusion, the Conservative party didn’t pull itself together and commit to rescuing the country from the brink of chaos.

 

[Anduril]

To o jasnom izboru sam odmah ovde napisao i to recimo u zemljama sa razvijenim referendumskim sistemom i funkcionalnom tradicijom ne ide tako. 

Sa jedne strane EU a sa druge strane ko zna sta. 

Demagogija at its best. 

No, najveci problem je sto citava britanska javnost nije u stanju da prosto prizna da su pocetnici sto se tice referenduma i uopste direktne demokratije. 

To je za njih relativno nov instrument i shodno tome nemaju pojma. 

Isto tako su skepticni i po pogledu proporcionalnog sistema iako njihov je njihov sistem ocigledno primitivan.

Kvaziimperijalna arogancija

[Sludge Factory]

Brexit uncertainty is a disgrace, says Airbus

[Sludge Factory]

Varufakis od pre mesec dana

 

ukratko, "unutrasnji dijalog" tokom tranzicionog perioda od 3 godine, u kom bi GB bila u carinskoj i trzisnoj uniji (uz slobodu kretanja), pa onda novi referendum.

 

Gordon Braun od pre neki dan

 

nesto slicno

 

[aram]

Phil Dunn

January 10, 2018 · Bournemouth, United Kingdom

UK: We want a unicorn
EU: We don't do unicorns. None of us have unicorns, There are no unicorns.

UK: But we promised unicorns and the people have spoken. We want unicorns
EU: That's not really our problem. There are no unicorns

UK: You're being unreasonable. We demand unicorns
EU: There are no unicorns

UK: You are bullying us with your outrageous demands!
EU: Eh? We just said there are no unicorns because... well... there are no unicorns.

UK: OK! We get your game. You're stalling! We're prepared to walk away without a unicorn you know! (Thinks: that'll show'em)
EU: There are no unicorns.

UK: You bastards! Nigel was right. You're out to destroy us. We'll go and speak to Donald instead. HE has unicorns!
EU: Errrrrmmm, there ARE no unicorns.

UK: That does it. This is our final position. We want unicorns...right now... gold plated... fluent in greek....ermmm.... or we're off!
EU: Are you still here? There are no unicorns.

UK: DAMMIT! What about a packet of crisps then?
EU: Sorry we're busy.

[radisa]

Ova situacija sa UK podseća malo na onu epizodu SouthParka kad Kanađani štrajkuju...

 

Posle svega, najbolje bi bilo da Mayova prođe kao vođe Kanade u Southparku, da je posade na neki splavi i pošalju što dalje od UK...

[hazard]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/30/brexit-political-class-politicians

 

Quote

Most culpable, once again, is the prime minister. If our jaws weren’t already slackened to numbness by the last 30 months, they should have hit the floor at this latest performance. Theresa May had repeated endlessly, and for weeks, that her deal was the only deal on offer. Yet there she was, standing at the despatch box urging MPs to vote for an amendment that trashes that very same deal. The Brady amendment, which passed by 16 votes, demands what May had constantly said, up until yesterday morning, was impossible: the replacement of the Northern Irish backstop with “alternative arrangements”. It’s an extraordinary thing, this ability of May’s: she somehow manages to combine grinding intransigence with a willingness to perform the most brazen U-turns.

 

First, it’s really no great achievement to get MPs to agree that they’d like the good bits of a deal but don’t want to swallow the bad bits: yes to the sugar, no to the pill. The Tories have united around a position that says they’d like the benefits of the withdrawal agreement, without paying all the costs.

 

It’s the familiar Brexit delusion, which Brussels took all of six minutes to crush, by declaring – for the millionth time – that “the withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation.” In other words, what the Daily Mail calls “Theresa’s triumph” is to have got her party to unite behind a stance that is doomed to fail.

 

But even on its own terms, the vote is hollow. For what did MPs vote for but “alternative arrangements”? Not a specific, detailed counter to the backstop, spelling out concrete ways that a hard border might be avoided, but the nebulous promise of an “alternative”. When you don’t like x, then “not x” looks mighty alluring, not least because it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

 

Brexiteers know the truth of that, because it was that same logic that saw them win the referendum itself. Their message back then boiled down to: do you want to stay in the European Union, with all its concrete, visible flaws, or would you like “alternative arrangements”? What we’ve all learned since is that the moment an “alternative” becomes real, it loses its all-things-to-all-people appeal. Which means that, even if Brussels were to relent and offer a revised proposal to the backstop, the new plan would enrage as many people as it would please – and would likely face rapid rejection by the Commons, by the Brexiteers swiftest of all.

 

But the obloquy should not belong to the Tories alone. MPs had the chance to prevent the national cataclysm of a no-deal crash-out last night – and they refused to take it. They rejected Yvette Cooper’s amendment, which would have made such an exit impossible, thanks in part to 14 Labour rebels who concluded that even a slight delay to Brexit – just a few months – poses more of a threat to their constituents than a crash-out that could see shortages of food and medicine, with more warnings along those lines coming this morning from the leader of a major hospitals group. The future public inquiry into this horror show will damn those 14 especially.

 

Instead, MPs voted for a toothless, non-binding amendment that confirms they don’t like no-deal very much, but are ready to do precisely nothing to prevent it. And while the Tories are still chasing unicorns, Labour is in its own fantasyland. Incredibly, shadow cabinet minister Richard Burgon was on TV last night still mouthing the same vacuities about “Labour’s alternative” Brexit and how it’s going to negotiate a “strong single-market relationship” – all the benefits, none of the costs – as if there isn’t only a matter of weeks to go till Britain leaves the EU. This just 24 hours after the party had embarrassed itself by planning to abstain on Tory legislation ending the free movement of people, only to reverse position 90 minutes later following a backlash on Twitter.

 

[MancMellow]

Najbolje ce biti na kraju kad im ponude nekakvu vremensku granicu od npr 5 godina. Eto, ucinili smo vam, a sa tako necim nema sanse da to prodje pored zivih ERG MPs, kojih ima 50-60 ali i ostalih Brexiteers. I nece biti dovoljno Laburistickih "rebels" da to offsetuju. Ja razumemem zasto nece carinsku uniju (donekle), ali ne razumem zasto nece Single market. Tj razumem. Ima gomila ljudi u vladi, ukljucujuci i PM, koji su opsednuti imigracijom. Jbg. Ali da pretpostavimo da uspe nekako da progura to kroz parlament sa tipa vecinom od 2, 3, 4 poslanika. To je nista, to nije vecina koja je potrebna da se posle toga kroz parlament progura gomila pratecih akata. Jedino, dakle, razumno resenje, je carinska unija.  Ali, ponavljam, ona realno vise steti samim ekonomkim razlozima (dugorocnim) za sam Brexit nego single market. I to je taj krug bez kraja. 

 

U Nemackoj se pojavljuju na primer ovakve ideje, ali mislim tj siguran sam da je i to previse za hard-core Brexitere

 

http://www.cesifo-group.de/ifoHome/presse/Pressemitteilungen/Pressemitteilungen-Archiv/2019/Q1/press_20190131_EconPol-Policy-Brief-12.html

Edited February 1, 2019 by MancMellow

[Gandalf]

Britain’s best chance of getting revenge on Brussels for its Brexit bullying is to remain in the European Union.
For the EU’s most fanatical and full-throated theologians, few outcomes could be more horrific than an intransigent, hostile Britain trapped in a project that it plots to undermine from the inside. They took solace in the galvanising effect Brexit had on their moribund dreams of closer integration but would be hamstrung in their efforts to stop Britain systematically dismantling them by using the bloc’s rules against it.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Gandalf