Indy Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Izvinjotina na carsafu:Migrants are the light infantry of global capitalism. Vast numbers vie with each other for jobs. Most have to put up with short-term contracts, with low wages and few benefi ts. The process is systemic, not accidental. The world is becoming full of denizens.The spread of the nation state made ‘belonging to the community into which one is born no longer a matter of course and not belonging no longer a matter of choice’ (Arendt, [1951] 1986: 286). Today’s migrants are rarely stateless in a de jure sense; they are not expelled from humanity. But they lack security and opportunity for membership of countries to where they move. More are ‘de-citizenised’, de facto denizens, even in their own country, as in China. Many migrants are ‘barely tolerated guests’ (Gibney, 2009: 3). Some observers (such as Soysal, 1994) believe that differences in the rights of citizens and non-citizens have waned, due to post-national human rights norms. But more see a growing gap between formal legal entitlements and societal practices (e.g. Zolberg, 1995). What we can say is that in a fl exible open system, two meta-securities are needed for the realisation of rights – basic income security and Voice security. Denizens lack Voice. Except when desperate, they keep their heads down, hoping not to be noticed as they go about their daily business of survival. Citizens have the priceless security of not being subject to deportation or exile, although there have been worrying slips even there. They may enter and leave their country; denizens are never sure.The combination of a precariat made up of migrants, a tax-based social assistance system and a taxation system that places most emphasis on income tax levied mainly on those around the median income accentuates hostility towards migrants and ‘foreigners’. The structure that leaves taxpayers feeling they are paying the bills for poor migrants means tensions cannot be dismissed as racial prejudice. They refl ect abandonment of universalism and social solidarity.Tensions are growing. According to a 2009 poll in six European countries and the United States, the United Kingdom was most hostile to migrants, with nearly 60 per cent believing they took jobs from natives. This compared with 42 per cent of Americans, 38 per cent of Spaniards, 23 per cent of Italians and 18 per cent of French. In the Netherlands a majority believed migrants increased crime. The United Kingdom had the highest share (44 per cent) of people saying that legal immigrants should not have an equal right to benefits, followed by Germany, the United States, Canada, the Netherlands and France. Polls in 2010 showed a worsening set of attitudes everywhere. In rich OECD countries, migration involves a special precarity trap. Real wages and jobs with career potential are declining, creating a status frustration effect. Those becoming unemployed face the prospect of jobs offering lower wages and less occupational content. It is unfair to criticise them for resenting this or being reluctant to give up on long-acquired skills and expectations. Meanwhile, migrants come in from places where they had lower income and expectations, making them more prepared to accept part-time, short-term and occupationally restrictive jobs. Politicians play the populist card, blaming the outcome on the laziness of locals, thereby justifying both tighter controls on migration and bigger benefi t cuts for the unemployed. This demonises two groups that will please the middle class, displaying the modern utilitarians at their most opportunistic. It is not ‘laziness’ or migration that is at fault; it is the nature of the fl exible labour market.Instead, migrants in public discourse are increasingly displayed as ‘dirty, dangerous and damned’. They ‘bring in’ diseases and alien habits, are a threat to ‘our jobs and way of life’, are traffi cked ‘ruined victims’, prostitutes or sad spectacles of humanity. The outcome of these crude attitudes is more border guards and harder conditions for entry. We see the latter in points systems and puerile citizenship tests being adopted in some countries. Rogue traits of a few are displayed as normal tendencies against which the state must take the utmost precautions. Increasingly, migrants are guilty until they can prove innocence.In the background, what has been happening is a sharpening of hostility fanned by populist politicians and fears that the Great Recession is turning into long-term decline. We shall come back to that once we have considered one other aspect of the precariat, its loss of control of time.(Guy Standing - The Precariat, p.114)
Halvard Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Najneprijatnije iskustvo sam doživeo sa mladim britanskim bračnim parom krajem 1999. - šok i neverica na njihovom licu kad su shvatili da razgovaraju sa ljudima iz Srbije (mislili su da smo Italijani, iz nekog razloga) je nešto što se ne zaboravlja lako. Mislim da su ti ljudi bili istinski uplašeni što se nalaze u blizini takvih i to je ono što je bilo najviše poražavajuće.Od Norvežana sam par puta doživeo sasvim suprotnu stvar - napadno oduševljavanje što sam iz Srbije, a ovakav sam. Za razliku od drugih odavde, verovatno. jedan od razloga za ovo je ukorenjeni egzotizam putopisaca koji se u TV emisijama uglavnom koncentrisu na etnicke i lokalne aspekte zivota u stranim zemljama i zanemaruju globalisticke. pretpostavljam da ce cak i natprosecno obavesteni zapadnjak rasudjivati o Srbiji kao o zemlji trube i nece mu pasti na pamet da razmislja o hiperurbanim aspektima ovdasnjeg zivota, kao sto je, na primer, blokovska potkultura.Mislim da to funkcioniše i u suprotnom smeru. Većina ljudi gradi stav o Americi i zapadu uopšte isključivo na osnovu popularne kulture, pa tako ima dosta ljudi koji su ubeđeni da prosečan Amerikanac živi po Sex and the City modelu i nemoguće im je da zamisle da postoje krajevi u Americi u poređenju sa kojima je Srbija nedostižan ideal društvenog liberalizma.
adam Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Ja i dalje, sedam godina kasnije, ne mogu da se opasuljim da je zena iz Amerike mislila da lazem kada sam joj rekao da znam za Marlboro, a kada sam je obavestio da imamo fabriku Marlbora, pogledala me je uz sazaljiv osmeh nekoga ko slusa patoloskog mitomana. "siroti mladic, sta je sledece, jos ce reci da ima i internet".da, ja sam bio prilicno iznenadjen koliko su neki ameri neinformisani. desilo mi se da sam ljudima objasnjavao da mi u srbiji imamo klubove i da smo culi za madonu. po reakcijama sam zakljucio da mi bas i ne veruju. to je bilo davne 90te, pre interneta al opet...jednu moju prijateljicu pitali neki tipovi u pabu kako se mi u srbiji muvamo i ona ladno odgovorila - namigujemo. kao namigujete? pa lepo, ocima. ima zena pravo. kakvo pitanje - takav i odgovor.
Indy Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Mislim da niko ne moze da nadbaci tipa iz neke novozelandske prodavnice, kad je pitao mrs Indy odakle je, ona kaze, a on ce (odusevljeno): "Wow! You kill people!"To me podseca na onu anegdotu kad je neki nas reziser u vreme sankcija u prvoj polovini 90-tih putovao u Italiju, a carinik ga izdvoji u sobu i zatvori vrata za sobom, ovaj se pita u sebi u jbt. sta ce sad da mi radi, a carinik ga zagrli i uzviknu "Brate! I ja sam fasista!"
Аврам Гојић Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Mislim da to funkcioniše i u suprotnom smeru. Većina ljudi gradi stav o Americi i zapadu uopšte isključivo na osnovu popularne kulture, pa tako ima dosta ljudi koji su ubeđeni da prosečan Amerikanac živi po Sex and the City modelu i nemoguće im je da zamisle da postoje krajevi u Americi u poređenju sa kojima je Srbija nedostižan ideal društvenog liberalizma.He, za Ameriku mislim da nisi u pravu. U vreme socijalizma puno energije je utroseno da se objasni narodu kako ni u Americi ne cvetaju ruze, da imaju puno sirotinje i da tamo muce crnce. Posle se samo nastavilo sa tom propagandom, ali sa drugih ideoloskih pozicija.Za ostatak zapada si u pravu. Cak je i meni cudno kada citam da su, recimo, salterske usluge u Belgiji grdje nego u Srbiji, uslovljen sam, kao mlekadzijski konj, da se okrecem ka Evropi kao izvoru svega dobrog i ispravnog.
Аврам Гојић Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Mislim da niko ne moze da nadbaci tipa iz neke novozelandske prodavnice, kad je pitao mrs Indy odakle je, ona kaze, a on ce (odusevljeno): "Wow! You kill people!"To me podseca na onu anegdotu kad je neki nas reziser u vreme sankcija u prvoj polovini 90-tih putovao u Italiju, a carinik ga izdvoji u sobu i zatvori vrata za sobom, ovaj se pita u sebi u jbt. sta ce sad da mi radi, a carinik ga zagrli i uzviknu "Brate! I ja sam fasista!" genocid kao srpska izvozna sansa
jms_uk Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 da su, recimo, salterske usluge u Belgiji grdje nego u Srbiji, Salterske usluge i grdna birokratija prevazilaze sve granice!
ToniAdams Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 ja sam sa amerima koje sam sretao, ozijima i europljanima imao kewl iskustva. najgluplja pitanja sam cuo od slovenki, bile su ubedjene da smo neki turski ogranak.doduse, ovi ameri i ostali su bili ugl vrlo pristojnog obrazovanja, pa mozda nisu bas relevantan uzorak.da, mala albanka se ziva usrala kad je cula da sam iz srbije, posle postao pajtos sa njom.
adam Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 To me podseca na onu anegdotu kad je neki nas reziser u vreme sankcija u prvoj polovini 90-tih putovao u Italiju, a carinik ga izdvoji u sobu i zatvori vrata za sobom, ovaj se pita u sebi u jbt. sta ce sad da mi radi, a carinik ga zagrli i uzviknu "Brate! I ja sam fasista!"meni rekli da je zilnik bio u pitanju.a za ovo s mrs indy... ima prijateljicina klinka drugaricu iz razreda koja je iz avganistana i mala joj pricala kako je kod njih rat i kako su oni morali da beze od rata i tako... i mala dodje kuci i isprica majci tuznu pricu svoje drugarice. kaze joj keva - pa i kod nas je bio rat i ja sam pobegla od rata. mala skoci sva srecna - juhu, pa mi smo iste! jedva cekam sutra skolu da joj kazem!
Аврам Гојић Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 ja sam sa amerima koje sam sretao, ozijima i europljanima imao kewl iskustva. najgluplja pitanja sam cuo od slovenki, bile su ubedjene da smo neki turski ogranak.doduse, ovi ameri i ostali su bili ugl vrlo pristojnog obrazovanja, pa mozda nisu bas relevantan uzorak.da, mala albanka se ziva usrala kad je cula da sam iz srbije, posle postao pajtos sa njom.pa to za Amere je cudno. sretao sam ili kompletne idiote (covek koji ne zna da li je u Egiptu ili u Saudijskoj Arabiji, od policijske kontrole na Sinaju je mislio da je granicni prelaz ) ili prave pravcate prosvecene putnike, tipa pita me odakle sam, kazem iz Srbije, a on pocne da veze nesto pametno o Andricu i danasnjem vremenu.inace ova cura sa Marlborom je bila intern u State departmentu i nosilac neke do jaja stipendije. sto kaze Laron, ne razumem.
Indy Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 a za ovo s mrs indy..(Ruralni) novozelandjani su znali da nas frapiraju. Mrs Indy na intervju za posao pita covek: "Why do you people come here?" (Naravno, ili na srecu, nije dobila posao). A mene u socijalnoj sluzbi koja se tamo zvala Work and Income NZ, srdito pita gospodja menadzer "zasto ocekujem socijalnu pomoc kada ocigledno nisam Novozelandjanin" (u to vreme sam bio permanent resident i imao prakticno sva prava kao i citizeni).PS. Jeste Zilnik, verovatno.
ToniAdams Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 nem pojma, jedan je sve znao o begeu i milosevicu, sa koje se strane sveta uliva sava u dunav i te fore. a nikad nije bio kod nas.sreo ga u barseloni onomad.onda riba iz pasadane, isto tako me prijatno iznenadila.najgori ameri su bili neki sto su u ameriku dosli kao mali iz rusije, spolja ameri, iznutra rusi :(
Halvard Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 da, mala albanka se ziva usrala kad je cula da sam iz srbije, posle postao pajtos sa njom.Mene jedna Albanka iz Tirane napala zbog srpskog odnosa prema kosovskim Albancima. I mislim se ja, dobro, ništa čudno, kad ono poenta ispade sasvim neočekivana - zašto smo ih naterali da se otcepe, i sada oni dolaze stalno u Albaniju, a grozni su i primitivni. Druga Albanija.
assück Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 nem pojma, jedan je sve znao o begeu i milosevicu, sa koje se strane sveta uliva sava u dunav i te fore. a nikad nije bio kod nas.sreo ga u barseloni onomad.onda riba iz pasadane, isto tako me prijatno iznenadila.najgori ameri su bili neki sto su u ameriku dosli kao mali iz rusije, spolja ameri, iznutra rusi :(
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