Amerika, zemlja velika

[Krošek]

Usmeno upozorenje		@black mirror		▪ KR 2.2
Zabranjeno je neosetljivo komentarisanje tog tipa i veličanje nasilja. Ako nemaš nešto pametnije od toga da napišeš na temu gde je neko izgubio život, bolje nemoj. Ponavljanje će proizvesti ban.
Napomena (izvod iz pravila): "Komunikacija forumaša sa moderatorima treba da se odvija na jednom podforumu Zid Plača /na temi "Moderisanje i uređivanje foruma"; pitanja i komentarisanje rada mod tima dozvoljeni su samo na toj temi/"

[3opge]

On 17.11.2021. at 16:07, pacey defender said:

Ona je u pritvoru a ne u zatvoru jer suđenje tek počinje, ne? Svrha pritvora je nešto drugo. 

 

Čak i da tu bitnu razliku zanemarimo, ako je 10% toga što kaže tačno, to apsolutno ne može da bude prihvatljivo. Gledanje folidža i ostale stvari iz perioda sa slobode su ovde nevažne.

 

znas, zabole me kurac sto gilejn jede mokar hleb i sto joj ne daju sveze gace svaki dan.

btw, strazarka mora da je gleda dok se zapira da joj se ne bi desilo nesto kao epstajnu.

 

 

[čekmeže]

Ima onaj dokumentarac o njoj, žena je čisto zlo.

[Roger Sanchez]

[Lezilebovich]

Skontao sam što je meni ova presuda neverovatna, a u stvari je prosto. Očigledno kad neko u USA nosi automatsku pušku na protest to se ne tretira kao neki poseban događaj. S obzirom da to ne predstavlja značajnu stvar, onda se ostali događaju posmatraju nezavisno od puške na ramenu. Kad se tako gleda, onda je valjda i očekivano da se proceni da je ovaj poremećeni mladić u stvari bio zabrinut za svoj život i da je pucao u samoodbrani.

 

Dalje, s obzirom da je sudski potvrđeno da ova budala nije kriva, ne vidim što je problem da ga zaposli neki senator.

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Lezilebovich

[dragance]

2 hours ago, Lezilebovich said:

Skontao sam što je meni ova presuda neverovatna, a u stvari je prosto. Očigledno kad neko u USA nosi automatsku pušku na protest to se ne tretira kao neki poseban događaj. S obzirom da to ne predstavlja značajnu stvar, onda se ostali događaju posmatraju nezavisno od puške na ramenu. Kad se tako gleda, onda je valjda i očekivano da se proceni da je ovaj poremećeni mladić u stvari bio zabrinut za svoj život i da je pucao u samoodbrani.

 

Dalje, s obzirom da je sudski potvrđeno da ova budala nije kriva, ne vidim što je problem da ga zaposli neki senator.

 

Upravo ovo. Jebo te.

[Milošica]

Ja se izvinjavam, ako neko može u nekoliko rečenica o tom događaju i kontekstu u kom se desio?

[Skyhighatrist]

 

[Lezilebovich]

Just now, Milošica said:

Ja se izvinjavam, ako neko može u nekoliko rečenica o tom događaju i kontekstu u kom se desio?

Policija upucala afroamerikanca u Kenoshi

Narod protestuje.

Klinac od 17 godina dolazi iz druge države sa AR 15 da brani privatnu svojinu od protestanata

Spoiler

 

Napada ga jedan od protestanata, klinac beži, protestant ga prati i klinac ga ubija.

Klinca napada drugi protestant skejtom. Klinac ga ubija.

Treći protestant podiže pištolj. Klinac ga upucava, ali mislim da ga nije ubio.

Policija hapsi ludaka. Biden ga u promo kampanji povezuje sa supemacistima, ali za to izgleda nije bilo dokaza.

Suđenje traje nekoliko dana i, po komentarima sa neta, tužilac se nije baš proslavio. 12 časnih amerikanaca (7 žena i 5 muškaraca) odlučuje da je sve to bilo samoodbrana. Ključno je bilo svedočenje samog ludaka koji kaže da se, jebiga, mnogo uplašio za svoj život. Mukica.

Sad su mu širom otvorena vrata za političku karijeru.

 

 

[Milošica]

Hvala lezileboviću.

[dragance]

Bukvalno da oružje nije legalno, ovo se ne bi nikada desilo. Ovako kako je zakon sada ispade “jebi ga”.

[Krošek]

U Austriji je dozvoljeno nošenje oružja. Ne znam tačno da li bi se moglo imati onakav karabin, ali pištolj svakako da. E pa, da se nešto slično ovome desilo u Austriji, bio bi drugačiji pravni ishod. Nije samo do gun laws. 

[vememah]

To Lezilebovichevo je onako baš dosta pojednostavljeno, da ne kažem crno-belo. Stvari su mnogo nijansiranije.

 

Kao prvo, nisu u pitanju bili samo protesti, već nemiri s pljačkanjem i spaljivanjem imovine o čemu svedoči dvocifrena milionska šteta nastala dok se nisu smirili, zbog čega je još dva dana pre ubistava (desila su se 25.8) proglašeno vanredno stanje sa sve večernjim policijskim časom, koji je važio i u trenutku kad su se ubistva i ranjavanje desili. Uništavanje imovine je bio povod ekstremnodesničarskim paramilitarcima da se okupljaju pod punom ratnom opremom i brane lokale od krađe i spaljivanja istovremeno iritirajući Black Lives Matter ekipu. Jedan od njih 25.8. bio je i sada oslobođeni Ritenhaus.

 

Quote

The demonstrations were marked by daily peaceful protesting followed by confrontations with law enforcement and rioting and arson at night. A state of emergency was declared on August 23, and the National Guard was activated the following day. (...)

City property valued at $2 million was destroyed by rioters, including garbage trucks, street lights and traffic signals.[5] Kenosha's mayor requested $30 million in aid from the state to cover the extensive damage.[68] Damage to private property could be as high as $50 million, according to estimates from the Kenosha Area Business Alliance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest

 

Kao drugo, oba ubijena su bili dokazani nasilnici koji su proveli dosta vremena u zatvoru.

 

Prvi ubijeni, 36-godišnji Džozef Rozenbaum, osuđivani gej pedofil koji je proveo cirka jednu deceniju iza rešetaka, (bivši?) narkoman, beskućnik, osoba s bipolarnim poremećajem i neuspešni samoubica (i ovo ne tvrde ekstremnodesničarski mediji već Washington Post), sa zabranom prilaska verenici koju je mlatio, koji je pritom nešto ranije te večeri već izazvao jedan incident, najpre je gađao napaljenog wannabe cop klinca Kajla Ritenhausa kesom sa stvarima i promašio, a zatim je jurio da ga bije iako je ovaj imao pušku. Uhvatio je pušku pa je klinja ispucao 4 metka i ubio ga.

 

Quote

Joseph Rosenbaum — depressed, homeless and alone — didn’t belong to either side. He had spent most of his adult life in prison for sexual conduct with children when he was 18 and struggled with bipolar disorder. That day, Aug. 25, Rosenbaum was discharged from a Milwaukee hospital following his second suicide attempt in as many months and dumped on the streets of Kenosha. (...)

When he was 13 his mother was sent to prison for two years, and Rosenbaum was sent off to a group home, where he began using heroin and methamphetamine, according to court documents. By 18, he was in prison for sexual conduct with five preteen boys, the children of people who had taken him in after his mother told him to leave her house, according to a presentencing report. He spent most of the next 14 years behind bars. (...)

At the time [before the suicide attempt], he and his new fiancee, whom he met in a Wisconsin hospital, were braving the winter in a tent they had pitched in an overgrown lot behind an abandoned department store. (...)

In the spring, the police confiscated their tent, so they slept for a while behind dumpsters in town. Eventually, the county’s social services department helped them get a room at a cut-rate motel, where a sign by the front desk offers $2 condoms and one in the room warns “no refunds after 10 mins.” (...)

He [Rosenbaum] visited his fiancee, who was living in a cheap motel room, but she told him he couldn’t stay the night. She had pressed charges against him a month earlier after a fight in which he knocked her down and bloodied her mouth. If Rosenbaum violated his no-contact order, she warned, he could be sent back to jail. (...)

In videos from that night, Rosenbaum often appeared agitated. When a member of the Kenosha Guard [different than Rittenhouse], a self-proclaimed militia, pointed his gun at him, Rosenbaum became enraged and dared the man, who was White, to kill him. “Shoot me, n-----!” he shouted. Several protesters rushed to calm Rosenbaum.

“You’re going to get us all shot,” one of them recalled telling him. (...)

He carried a clear plastic bag containing a deodorant stick, underwear and socks that the hospital had given him upon discharge following his suicide attempt. In the seconds before he was shot, Rosenbaum threw the plastic bag at Rittenhouse and chased him behind some parked cars.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/03/kenosha-shooting-victims/

 

Klinja Ritenhaus je potom počeo da beži, a masa da ga juri. Među njima je na skejtbordu bio 26-godišnji Entoni Huber, dvaput osuđivani ovisnik o heroinu, a zatim o halucinogenu DMT-u, koji je davio sopstvenog brata i pretio da će zaklati mesarskim nožem. Zatim je kad je izašao iz zatvora tukao sopstvenu sestru zbog čega je ponovo vraćen tamo.

 

Quote

In 2012, [Anthony] Huber brandished a butcher knife and threatened to “gut” his brother “like a pig” if he didn’t clean the house. The family told police that Huber choked his brother with his hands for 10 seconds before letting him go and retreating to the skate park. Convicted of strangulation and false imprisonment, he was placed on probation but violated the terms and was sent to prison in 2017. When he came home, he got into another argument over the state of the house. This time, he kicked his sister, and went back to prison on a charge of disorderly conduct in 2018.

Upon release from his second prison stint, Huber met [his girlfriend Hannah] Gittings at The Port, a Kenosha bar. He told her he was seven years sober from heroin, the same drug Gittings had recently decided to quit. As an alternative to shooting up, he offered a hit from his vape pen loaded with DMT, a psychedelic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/10/03/kenosha-shooting-victims/

 

Evo opisa Huberovog ubistva i ranjavanja treće osobe, Gejdža Groskrojca, koji je strimovao događaje te večeri.

 

Quote

“Gunshots,” said Grosskreutz on his live-stream video, moments after Rittenhouse fired on Rosenbaum. Rittenhouse passed, then Huber. Grosskreutz fell in just behind him.

After a few yards, Rittenhouse stumbled and fell to the ground. An unidentified man ran toward him and delivered a flying kick. Rittenhouse fired at him but missed.

Then came Huber, who swung a skateboard at Rittenhouse’s shoulder and reached for his rifle. Rittenhouse fired again, hitting Huber in the chest.

Last came Grosskreutz, who ran toward Rittenhouse with his pistol drawn. Rittenhouse raised his rifle and shot. A bullet tore through Grosskreutz’s right biceps.

 

Jedini preživeli od trojice, Groskrojc, na sudu je priznao da Ritenhaus, koji je bio oboren na zemlju pa se uspravio u sedeći položaj, nije pucao u njega dok on sam, dok je bio u njegovoj neposrednoj blizini, nije uperio pištolj prema njemu i krenuo da mu se približava, što se vidi i na fotografiji koju je Ritenhausov advokat prikazao.

 

 

Već je gore okačena detaljna i vrlo dobra 25-minutna NYT-ova rekonstrukcija događaja te noći, gleda se kao dobar krimić, i ja je preporučujem:

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by vememah

[vememah]

Da ne bude zabune, mislim da je Ritenhaus morao biti osuđen zbog ubistava, ali je vrlo verovatno da se tužilaštvo pod pritiskom javnosti debelo precenilo u odnosu na dokaze kojima je raspolagalo. Da je išlo na slabija dela, ne na ovako strogo formulisana, daleko je verovatnije da bi bio osuđen.

 

Ovo su bile tačke optužnice:

 

 

Quote

 

COUNT 1

First-degree reckless homicide

Under Wisconsin law, this crime is defined as recklessly causing the death of another human being under circumstances that show utter disregard for human life. It is not necessary for prosecutors to prove intent to kill. Mr. Rittenhouse was accused of this crime in connection with the death of the first man he shot, Joseph D. Rosenbaum. It is a Class B felony carrying a basic sentence of up to 60 years in prison.

 

COUNTS 2 AND 3

First-degree recklessly endangering safety

The law defines this crime as recklessly endangering another person’s safety under circumstances that show utter disregard for human life. Mr. Rittenhouse was charged with this crime for firing shots at two people he did not hit: Richard McGinnis and an unknown man. The crime is a class F felony that carries a basic sentence of up to 12 and a half years in prison, a fine of up to $25,000, or both, for each of the two counts.

 

COUNT 4

First-degree intentional homicide

The crime, analogous to first-degree murder in other states, is defined as causing the death of another human being with intent to kill that person or someone else, without the presence of certain mitigating circumstances specified in the law. Mr. Rittenhouse faced this charge in connection with the death of Anthony M. Huber, the second man he shot. It is a Class A felony that carries a basic sentence of life in prison.

The judge told the jurors they should also consider whether Mr. Rittenhouse was guilty of second-degree intentional homicide or first-degree reckless homicide in connection with Mr. Huber’s death.

 

COUNT 5

Attempted first-degree intentional homicide

Attempting to commit first-degree intentional homicide is a Class B felony under Wisconsin law. Mr. Rittenhouse faced this charge in connection with the shooting of Gaige P. Grosskreutz, who was struck and wounded. It carries a basic sentence of up to 60 years in prison.

The judge told the jurors they should also consider whether Mr. Rittenhouse was guilty of attempted second-degree intentional homicide or first-degree recklessly endangering safety in connection with the shooting of Mr. Grosskreutz.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/us/kyle-rittenhouse-charges-acquittal.html

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by vememah

[dragance]

2 hours ago, Krošek said:

U Austriji je dozvoljeno nošenje oružja. Ne znam tačno da li bi se moglo imati onakav karabin, ali pištolj svakako da. E pa, da se nešto slično ovome desilo u Austriji, bio bi drugačiji pravni ishod. Nije samo do gun laws. 

Ako bi slobodno mogao da nosiš AR-15 u Austriji, kao u USA, tu me seci.