Hoću da budem programerka

[radisa]

2 minutes ago, chandra said:

 

 

 

ovo je bukvalno tako. Ono, umesto da sedi i pise svoj kod kojim ce resiti problem, dobije gotov dokumentovan kod (sa raznim testovima za medjurezultate) i onda potrosi tri dana pokusavajuci da ga "natera da proradi" prakticno random menjajuci ulazne parametre i kad to naravno ne upali, vrati kod uz "ima neki bug" (a ispostavi se da je bug sto su jedinice u CGS umesto u MKS ili neka slicna glupost iz ciste nepaznje i necitanja dokumentacije). Pa sve i da je bug, zasuci rukave, pa gledaj sta je. Nema boljeg nacina za ucenje programiranja.

Nema boljeg načina za učenje bilo čega, nego da tražiš rešenje problema...

 

ALi, to teško...

 

[Budja]

Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201117-why-reskilling-wont-always-guarantee-you-a-new-job

 

Quote

The pandemic has amplified the long-enduring narrative that reskilling is the answer to unemployment and upward mobility. But is it actually a panacea for workforce woes?

W

When London went into lockdown in March, Baltasar Romero quickly realised his job as a reservations manager might be in trouble. The team he was managing was cut from 10 people to just one, and his hours were reduced by a third.

“It was clear that working in hospitality was going to be quite difficult for the next few years,” says the 34-year-old. “In August, they made my position redundant. So they made it very easy for me to just jump into a radical change.”

In September, he started a three-month, full-time software-engineering course. He says a change had been in the cards for some time, and the pandemic was just the push he needed. Romero adds that his affinity for technology seemed to make the career a good fit, but the regular calls from the industry for more coders certainly helped make his decision.

“It seems that sooner or later everybody should jump into this environment,” he says.

As the pandemic has put millions out of work and is hastening the reshaping of entire industries, workers around the world are seeing signals that new skills will be the key to steady employment in the 'new normal'. For example, in September, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced plans aimed at upskilling workers in the form of free college courses, digital-skills bootcamps and more apprenticeships to “build back better from coronavirus”.

But experts say there’s little point training millions of people in new technical skills if there aren’t enough jobs at the end of it. “It could work for an individual, but it doesn't work as an economic policy,” says Gordon Lafer, a political economist at the University of Oregon. “Every time there's an economic problem job training is trotted out… and it's never worked."

The pandemic was still a few months away when 42-year-old Claire Winterbottom, from Leeds, started her reskilling journey. She had taken adoption leave from her job as a debt advisor, and decided to use the time to retrain as a web developer. She’d always been interested in technology, but was also keen to “future-proof” herself.

In January, she secured a place on a free four-month course aimed at women. She was told all but two of the previous cohort had secured technology jobs. But this year’s course finished in April, at the peak of the pandemic’s first wave, and nearly seven months later only four of her class of 16 have found work in the industry. Winterbottom says it’s hardly surprising as the recession bites, and demand for new developers dries up. “You're also up against other people who've taken the pandemic to learn how to code. So, there’s more people with more skills, but there's less jobs,” she adds.

The idea that the precarious position workers find themselves in today could be solved by training is particularly illogical, says Lafer, who has been studying job-training schemes in the US since the 1980s. People are out of work because the pandemic has shuttered huge swathes of the economy, not because of a lack of skills. “If job training was ever going to work it's not now,” he says.

If job training was ever going to work it's not now – Gordon Lafer

But even before the pandemic, the narrative of reskilling was on shaky ground. As the twin forces of globalisation and technological progress have eroded well-paid blue-collar jobs and routine office work, governments have regularly promoted it as the solution. The logic is that as industries like manufacturing decline and others like IT boom, there’s a growing gap between the skills employers need and those of workers, particularly in STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) related fields. Teaching workers in-demand skills, such as coding, could therefore kill two birds with one stone: meeting industry needs while helping displaced workers revamp their careers.

But the evidence doesn’t back up the assertion of a ‘skills gap’.

Former US Department of Labor chief economist Heidi Shierholz has pointed out that the clearest signal of such a problem would be occupations with a combination of low unemployment and strong wage growth, reflecting competition for those with in-demand skills. But this evidence is consistently lacking; in 2018, only occupations in the legal field came close. In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says.

If anything, the numbers point to an oversupply of skills, says Hal Salzman, a sociologist at Rutgers University. In a 2018 paper, he and colleagues showed that only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM, dropping to between 10 and 50% for those studying life sciences, physical sciences and maths. A study from the Office for National Statistics published last year recorded similar evidence in the UK that a shortage of skills is not the issue. The data showed that 16% of workers in 2017 were overeducated for their jobs, which rose to 31% for graduates.

Lafer says that part of the problem is that the occupations people are typically encouraged to retrain for represent a small fraction of total jobs, and that in many places, technology is being used to automate tasks to eliminate the need for trained employees.

Why, then, do policymakers and business leaders continue to focus on reskilling? Lafer thinks it gives them an easy way out by laying the blame for workers’ dim employment prospects on their failure to acquire the right skills rather than facing up to deeper structural changes in the economy. He says that a better option might be a push for better pay and conditions in other in demand industries that employ lots of people but are poorly rewarded such as construction, healthcare and education. But that debate is contentious, he admits.

You're also up against other people who've taken the pandemic to learn how to code, so there’s more people with more skills, but there's less jobs – Claire Winterbottom

For Marcela Escobari at the Brookings Institution, the focus on reskilling is less a ‘conspiracy’ against workers than a tangle of misaligned incentives and over-eagerness for a silver bullet. Last December, she and colleagues published a report called Realism About Reskilling, which concluded that a myopic focus on skills obscures the numerous other barriers that can trap workers in dead-end jobs.

“There's definitely places where skills matter. But there's a lot of other reasons why people are churning through low-wage jobs that don't see any mobility,” she says.

When they studied real-world job transitions, they found most didn’t require retraining. It was more about picking the right industry to move into, either because their existing skills were a good match or demand was high in their area. She and colleagues created an online tool that uses real-world data on job transitions to tell people what roles others in their occupation and area have successfully moved to. They also hope employers will look at the results to work out what industries they should be hiring from.

She says policymakers should focus on making these kinds of transitions easier. That could include creating portable benefits that allow workers to take things like health plans and retirement plans with them when they switch employers, but also incentivising employers to create more entry level positions and reverse decades of funding cuts to internal training schemes.

But she says there also needs to be more effort to remove barriers for those in genuine need of reskilling who are typically the least able to access it. For low-wage workers, it often comes down to simple logistics: being able to take time off work, or having a car to get to training classes. And because reskilling programs are often measured on their outcomes, they frequently screen candidates to select those most likely to succeed.

That’s not to say reskilling is a universally bad idea for individuals. Stefanie Lis, 28, was put on furlough from her restaurant job in Leeds during the pandemic, and used the time to study coding online. Three months later, she secured a paid internship with Manchester web development company Huddle, which has since turned into a job.

She’s adamant that the huge amount of free or cheap online resources available today means anyone can learn to code if they put their mind to it. But she is conscious that the furlough allowed her to treat learning as a full-time job, and she was lucky to find an employer willing to take on a fledgling developer. “They've just really taken the time to be patient and show me things and support me."

Despite her struggles so far, Winterbottom is also confident she will eventually find work as a developer. But if she does, she says it’ll be down to her passion for coding, not to mention the fact she’s already employed and doesn’t have to worry about bills piling up. She adds that there’s no way it makes sense for everyone, and she thinks its disingenuous for politicians to suggest that this is the answer to the havoc the pandemic has wrought on the job market.

“You've got to work so hard at it and do all these extra activities and just immerse yourself fully. Without that passion, I can't see them getting anywhere.”

 

[Sludge Factory]

Ne znam bas da li je ovo pitanje za ovaj topic, ako ima neki adekvatniji moderator neka premesti. 

 

Potpuno laicki onako i padobranski, ako npr. neko (neka firma) zeli da napravi/razvije svoju aplikaciju (android, iOS, svejedno) sa nekim materijalom ili sadrzajem kom korisnici treba da pristupe preko aplikacije, gde se i kako drzi taj sadrzaj? Da li je potrebno da se zakupi neki server za hostovanje gradje i koliko to kosta, onako okvirno? Da li android aplikacije mogu da se povezuju sa drugim programima i aplikacijama napravljenim u Javi, te sa jos nekim drugim android aplikacijama, pa da onda sa njih povlaci sadrzaje/gradju koji su hostovani na serveru te druge aplikacije? 

 

Koliko je sve to tehnicki komplikovano i zahtevno i koliki dobar znalac treba da bude programer ili firma koja radi softver development da bi napravila jednu takvu aplikaciju? Kada firma koja radi soft. develpment izradi aplikaciju po nekom ugovoru, da li ona moze da bude obavezana da obezbedi hosting, servisiranje i odrzavanje aplikacije nakon pustanja u rad odn. postane dostupna svim zainteresovanim korisnicima na netu? 

 

Hvala  

[renne]

MOra neki server naravno, ako je deljeni sadržaj, tj, svako sa app može da ima pristup. KOšta u zavisnosti od potreba, broja konekcija, propusnog opsega, mesečnog prometa, od recimo 50 do 10k $.

MOže sve da se poveže, može đda bude prekompikovano, a pože da bude i limunada, kao što rekoh, sve zavisi šta ti treba

Kaži konkretno, pa da se proračuna

[Hamlet Strašni]

1 hour ago, Sludge Factory said:

Ne znam bas da li je ovo pitanje za ovaj topic, ako ima neki adekvatniji moderator neka premesti. 

 

Potpuno laicki onako i padobranski, ako npr. neko (neka firma) zeli da napravi/razvije svoju aplikaciju (android, iOS, svejedno) sa nekim materijalom ili sadrzajem kom korisnici treba da pristupe preko aplikacije, gde se i kako drzi taj sadrzaj? Da li je potrebno da se zakupi neki server za hostovanje gradje i koliko to kosta, onako okvirno? Da li android aplikacije mogu da se povezuju sa drugim programima i aplikacijama napravljenim u Javi, te sa jos nekim drugim android aplikacijama, pa da onda sa njih povlaci sadrzaje/gradju koji su hostovani na serveru te druge aplikacije? 

 

Koliko je sve to tehnicki komplikovano i zahtevno i koliki dobar znalac treba da bude programer ili firma koja radi softver development da bi napravila jednu takvu aplikaciju? Kada firma koja radi soft. develpment izradi aplikaciju po nekom ugovoru, da li ona moze da bude obavezana da obezbedi hosting, servisiranje i odrzavanje aplikacije nakon pustanja u rad odn. postane dostupna svim zainteresovanim korisnicima na netu? 

 

Hvala  

Што се тиче уговора, све то може, само се треба добро обезбедити за случај да не испуњавају обавезе. 

[goofs]

Ovako naslepo, da bi pokretao aplikaciju za mobilni ili vebsajt moras naravno da imas zakupljen server na kom ces to da hostujes. Hosting paketi mogu biti shared (vise korisnika na jednoj server masini) i dedicated (samo jedna masina za jednog korisnika). Ako planiras bilo sta za bilo kakve sire narodne mase (1000+ poseta/korisnika dnevno) odmah otpisuj shared hosting, znaci samo dedicated. On sad kosta od nekih 50ak eura mesecno pa navise, zavisi kakav server ti treba, koje jacine, koliko RAMa (vise RAMa - vise muzike) i slicno. Imas i opcije kod Amazona, sto pomenu renne, da placas po "potrosnji", sto s jedne strane nije lose jer ti sajt nikad nece stucati, s druge je lose jer nemas pojma sta da ocekujes u racunu za hosting na kraju meseca.

 

Tehnicki android aplikaciju mozes da povezes sa bilo kojim drugim programom napisanim u bilo cemu, fora je samo da taj program/sajt/app ima dobar API putem kojeg ce da ti isporucuje zeljene podatke. Postoje i neke druge opcije, recimo crawling stranica jednog vebsajta, gde ti kroz skriptu bukvalno otvaras sve stranice i uzimas ono sto te zanima od sadrzaja, a ostalo odbacujes, ali to je dosta nestabilno resenje, i poprilicno ruzan pristup za razvoj.

 

Komplikovano je manje ili vise, u zavisnosti od toga sta zelis da postignes sa tom aplikacijom. U principu hosting moze da ti obezbedjuje firma koja ti razvija App, ali mozes i sam da ga zakupis. Prvi slucaj ti je verovatno bolji jer bi ti onda i oni vodili racuna i o serveru i o daljem razvoju aplikacije. Drugi slucaj je sigurno jeftinija varijanta, ali moras imati neke saradnike (khah, frilensere, khah) koji ce da uskacu po potrebi, jednog za server i jednog za aplikaciju (moze biti i ista osoba ako ima dovoljno znanja).

 

Kvaka 22 svake aplikacije je customer support, to su troskovi nevidljivi na startu, a umeju da narastu do te mere da ti pojedu ceo budzet. U zavisnosti od tipa aplikacije i od dostupne konkurencije potreban ti je manje ili vise profy support, sto znaci neko ko ce da se javlja na mailove, odgovara, prosledjuje probleme razvojnom timu, koordinira zahtevima itd.

[Sludge Factory]

Hvala vam svima!

 

Ne znam da li da otkrivam o cemu se radi, jer ako se realizuje bice lepo, pa mi zao da spojlujem  

 

Imam neki info da bi za hosting zapravio bio potreban jedan racunar koji bi bio kod nas i koji bi sluzio kao server. Da li to ima smisla? Kako takav "server" hendluje traffic (koji ne bio bio bog zna kakav niti konstantan, tj. ne ocekujem, s obzirom na sadrzaj koji je u pitanju)? Da li je bolje to ili iznajmljivanje servera na netu? Finansijski verujem svakako, ali tehnicki?

 

Mislim, ovo su tehnicka pitanja na koja moze da odgovori onaj ko bude radio razvoj aplikacije, ali eto cisto me informativno zanima, pre svega da vidim koliko je to sve komplikovano i ozbiljno da bi se u to upustali, a srecom ovde ima ljudi koji znaju mnogo toga, a i bave se time konkretno (ili makar necim bliskim). Bice tu naravno i drugih prepreka, koje se mozda pokazu kao nepremostive (pre svega kod obezbedjivanja sadrzaja), ali nema veze. 

 

Ne znam koliko bi bilo gigabajta sadrzaja, ali svakako je to nesto sto bi se vremenom uvecavalo. 

 

 

2 hours ago, goofs said:

Kvaka 22 svake aplikacije je customer support, to su troskovi nevidljivi na startu, a umeju da narastu do te mere da ti pojedu ceo budzet. U zavisnosti od tipa aplikacije i od dostupne konkurencije potreban ti je manje ili vise profy support, sto znaci neko ko ce da se javlja na mailove, odgovara, prosledjuje probleme razvojnom timu, koordinira zahtevima it

 

Ovo za sada ne bi bio problem, tj. mislim da bi moglo da se hendluje relativno jeftino (customer support), a ako dobro kapiram (i Hamleta, a i ovaj drugi izvor informacija koji imam) to se dogovorom i ugovorom resava sa firmom koja radi razvoj. 

[renne]

Može i kod vas server naravno, ali onda mora biti pouzdana linija, dovoljno uploda i još neke stvari

Pazi, sve može, samo treba da znte, kao što napisah gore, šta vam treba

[panta rhei]

26 minutes ago, Sludge Factory said:

Hvala vam svima!

 

Ne znam da li da otkrivam o cemu se radi, jer ako se realizuje bice lepo, pa mi zao da spojlujem  

 

Imam neki info da bi za hosting zapravio bio potreban jedan racunar koji bi bio kod nas i koji bi sluzio kao server. Da li to ima smisla?

 

ja to nikako ne bih radio. teoretaki je moguce, ali nikako racunar koji glumi server nego i hardverski server. mozda u test svrhe ili neko "igranje" ali kao poslovno resenje nikako.

[Sludge Factory]

Ako zakup servera nije toliko skup, onda i meni zvuci logicnije ad se zakupi nego da server racunar bude kod tebe. Naravno, ako se uklapa u troskove! 

 

Super je ovo, kapriam da nije toliko strasno i da ce moci. 

[goofs]

11 minutes ago, panta rhei said:

 

ja to nikako ne bih radio. teoretaki je moguce, ali nikako racunar koji glumi server nego i hardverski server. mozda u test svrhe ili neko "igranje" ali kao poslovno resenje nikako.

+1000

 

Jel namena iskljucivo domacoj publici ili globalno? Ako je globalno onda nikako hosting u Srbiji, ako pikiras samo domacicu onda mozda i ima nekog smisla.

[Sludge Factory]

Namena je iskljucivo domacoj publici.

[Sludge Factory]

BTW, kako da saznam koliko kosta razvoj softvera okvirno? Mislim, jeste to usluga kao i svaka druga i u principu pozoves pa pitas  ali nekako mi je taj svet dalek, zatvoren, da to prosto u tom svetu tako ne funkcionise

[Tpojka]

Ne mora odma' da ide sa dedicated serverom. 
Bukvalno može da se startuje sa $5/mo VPS droplet-om na DigitalOcean-u i da se uvećava po potrebi (testu). 
1000 posjeta dnevno nije vrijedno pomena - to je 500 posjeta u periodu 8-16, 300 posjeta u periodu od 20-22 (ili obrnuto, zavisno od namjene aplikacije) i ostalih 200 prerasporedjeno na ostatak dana. 

Naravno da zavisi i od kvaliteteta i strukture koda mobilne aplikacije tako i server strane a što se tiče servera gdje će biti baza sa podacima to je rješivo sa ovim ciframa. 
Ako je za domaće tržište (recimo Srbiju), 15.000 korisnika (download-a) applikacije bi već bio nevjerovatan uspjeh IMHO. 
To sve može da se proba sa najmanjim VPS-om ili klasom većim ($10/mo).

 

Amazon (AWS) je nešto skuplji sa servisima od toga al' je neprikosnoven k'o poslovno rješenje jer nudi infrastrukturu u kompletu koja se može povezati (mejl servis, notifikacije, autentifikaciju, logovi,...).

Jedno od mogućih rješenja bi bio AWS Amplify + Cognito + API Gateway + Lambda( + Graphql) + DinamoDB + S3

al' to su sada detalji za razmatranje prema tehničkim zahtjevima aplikacije.

 

Ovo sve navedeno su moduli i podsistemi koje AWS nudi po relativno jeftinoj cijeni ili se može programirati u backend-u from scratch. Stvar sa AWS-om je da sve radi odlično i odlično se uklapa jedno s drugim.

 

Bez problema krenuti sa DO od $5/mo pa uvećavati po potrebi (uvećavanje DO dropleta traje par minuta) do cijena koje je renne naveo ako bi se promet mjerio u desetinama i stotinama hiljada il' odma' krenuti na AWS a koji opet zahtjeva više administratorskog znanja. 

Računati u startu da ni jedan ni drugi ne može podešavati neko ko ne zna podesiti server iz terminala. 

[Lezilebovich]

41 minutes ago, Tpojka said:

 

 

Amazon (AWS) je nešto skuplji sa servisima od toga al' je neprikosnoven k'o poslovno rješenje jer nudi infrastrukturu u kompletu koja se može povezati (mejl servis, notifikacije, autentifikaciju, logovi,...).

 

 

Informativno me samo zanima ... da li i Azure nudi ovo gore napisano ?