Alkoholizam i priključenija

[Turnbull]

Igrom slučaja, potpuno nevezano za topic, naleteh na ovaj izvrstan tekst o alkoholizmu, pisan iz vilijamdžejmsovske perspektive.(Tekst je malo duži, ovo je samo odlomak):

IN IRISH, A DISTINCTION IS MADE between problem and trouble. The first, even if dire, with work and John Dewey's "creative intelligence" can be resolved. With trouble, there is no way out, without punition. The difference between my announcement that I was a sick soul and that I am an alcoholic is instructive here. In the sick soul, the persons introduced by James are suffering without any quarter. He does not discuss relief until the subsequent chapters on conversion. And the major characteristic of conversion is the appearance, the happening of a power transcendent—from beyond the personal locale of the malaise, the fright, the despair. He holds that the healing of the divided self comes "in consequence of its firmer hold upon religious realities." He does say that this access to a higher power is "what conversion signifies in general terms, whether or not we believe that a direct divine operation is needed to bring such a moral change about" (my emphasis). Then, in writing of the case of Stephen H. Bradley, he tells us that "possibilities of character lay disposed in a series of layers or shells, of whose existence we have no premonitory knowledge." One thinks here of James's contention that there are "possibilities extant" not yet in our present sight.Returning here to a diagnosis of one kind of sick soul, the clinical low-bottom alcoholic, the received wisdom anoints and judges that person as hopeless, clearly having trouble rather than a problem. Remarkably, in three pages of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, William James, Carl Jung, and Bill Wilson, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA), gather together to delineate both the hopelessness and the thin, desperate hope that what we have here can become a problem, with the chance, ever so slight, of having a way out.

A certain American business man had ability, good sense, and high character. For years he had floundered from one sanitarium to another. He had consulted the best known American psychiatrists. Then he had gone to Europe, placing himself in the care of a celebrated physician (the psychiatrist, Dr. Jung) who prescribed for him. Though experience had made him skeptical, he finished his treatment with unusual confidence. His physical and mental condition were unusually good. Above all, he believed he had acquired such a profound knowledge of the inner workings of his mind and its hidden springs that relapse was unthinkable. Nevertheless, he was drunk in a short time. More baffling still, he could give himself no satisfactory explanation for his fall.

So he returned to this doctor, whom he admired, and asked him point-blank why he could not recover. He wished above all things to regain self-control. He seemed quite rational and well-balanced with respect to other problems. Yet he had no control whatever over alcohol. Why was this?

He begged the doctor to tell him the whole truth, and he got it. In the doctor's judgment he was utterly hopeless; he could never regain his position in society and he would have to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard if he expected to live long. That was a great physician's opinion. . . .

The doctor said: "You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you." Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang.

He said to the doctor, "Is there no exception?"

"Yes," replied the doctor, "there is. Exceptions to cases such as yours have been occurring since early times. Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these occurrences are phenomena. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them. [Jung takes this from William James.] In fact, I have been trying to produce some such emotional rearrangement within you. With many individuals the methods which I employed are successful, but I have never been successful with an alcoholic of your description."

³

The Book then invokes The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James, stressing the many ways in which the alcoholic sick soul can have this "spiritual experience" and discover God. And it is here that we have the origin of the contentious, conflicted presence of the higher power in most recovery literature, especially Alcoholics Anonymous. (Parenthetically, this contention generated the line in Step 3, "God as we understood Him," the sotto voce, "a power greater than ourselves," and a further reference to William James's position that the "spiritual experience" could be of the "educational variety.")Forebodingly, John the alcoholic does not believe in a higher power, nor do many other recovering alcoholics. For many, this is a permanent obstacle to recovery. Consequently, it was assumed that my trouble was indeed irresolute. Not so fast. Returning to James on the sick soul, at the end of the chapter he shares a document detailing a vastation experience laced with extreme morbidity and imagined terror. And the correspondent claims that he would have "grown really insane" had he not clung to scriptural texts like "The eternal God is my refuge." We know this document to be autobiographical. We also know that although this event was episodic and not permanently suffusing, James remained depressed for a year subsequent and, on February 1, 1870, tells us that he "about touched bottom." On April 30, 1870, in a diary entry he announces a turn: "I will go a step further with my will, not only act with it, but believe as well. . . ." This turn does not involve a higher power and yet it was to be the decisive thread that knit together all of James's work for the next forty years. James's belief in what he later, famously, calls the "Will to Believe" is a philosophical bootstrap move. But this contention will enable him to set out with the mission that "Life shall [be built in] doing and suffering and creating."⁴ From that "way" of William James, I took a "way" out of my trouble, from which I was told over and again, there was no way out. And, along his waying, he introduces me to a series of insights helpful to my waying. To that Jamesian pedagogy, I now turn.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Syme

[Aineko]

zašto ljudi postaju alkoholičari? kada se za nekog može reći da to jeste, i, ako se već zaključi da jeste - šta s tim? pobeći glavom bez obzira? ostati? šta je uopšte sa njihovim porodicama? posledice? traume? svakodnevni život sa nekim ko pije?

cekaj, pt, oces knjigu da ti napisem? :) daj jedno po jedno pitanje :)

"ja pijem samo pivo, nije to alkohol""ja pijem samo popodne i uveče"

ja sam bila u situaciji da mi alkoholicar povratnik, dok ispred njega stoji poluprazna flasa i puna casa rakije, na konstatciju "ti opet pijes?" odgovara sa "ne, ja ne pijem" i deluje potpuno ubedjen u to. to mi je jedan od dva najjaca utiska. drugi je propadanje mozdanih celija koje je bilo toliko ocigledno tokom godina da mi je nekad bilo jadno gledati - covek sa jako visokim IQom, nekadasnji sahista na nacionalnom nivou, hodajuca enciklopedija maltene, gleda te dok mu nesto pricas i ne moze da sastavi dva i dva.

[ToniAdams]

Teritorija, grupa, refleks, navika, zadato vreme kao pocetak, bezvremenost kao kraj, pa opet navika, strah od sputanosti, dosada obicnosti, sa i bez okidaca, izmenjena hemija, grupnodrustveno prihvatljivo za razliku od porodice, naslednost kao verovatnoca, volja kao zrtva, dostupnost, simulirana stvarnost, uklapanje pa samoca kao bunt, svest o kontroli koje nema, lazna svest, ponavljana iskrenost, mitomanija proslosti, fantazija o posebnosti, uvlacenje u krugove, odbacivanje, opet refleks, cascavanje, crta, dobra mesta gube trku sa budzacima, pogled unazad, pogledi koji ocekuju uobicajeno ponasanje, povratak u sigurno, alkohol kao utociste i sigurnost, odlazak na drugu stranu, nepriznati gubitci, zaborav, stid, pa ponovo poznata teritorija, i na kraju heroin kao otreznjenje.Premalo ima reci za opis alkoholizma.

uf, rispek

[Indy]

Alkoholicari su u stvari relativno retki. Ja licno ne znam ni jednog. Mislim da je 4-5% (pravih/obolelih) alkoholicara medju muskarcima (i dosta manje medju zenama).Nije u redu propitivanje za alkoholizam skoro svakoga ko voli dobru kapljicu. To bi bilo kao optuzivati sve one koji se bave streljastvom da su sigurno nekoga upucali.Ima ovaj testTwo "yes" responses indicate that the possibility of alcoholism should be investigated further. The questionnaire asks the following questions:

• Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your drinking?
• Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking?
• Have you ever felt Guilty about drinking?
• Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?

Znaju mnogi ovde da sam se bavio vinom. Ne samo da se ovo na mene nikad nije odnosilo (ni jedan, a kamoli 2 "yes"), nego rekoh, ne znam nikog za koga bi to vazilo. Naravno, to je i zato sto biram drustvo.Dusebriznici cesto vide alkoholicara u svakom ko sa uzivanjem prinese casu ustima. A u stvari mislim da ti koji najvise uzivaju u picu, najmanje imaju sanse da budu alkosi. Nesto nemam utisak da alkosi uopste uzivaju u picu, vise je to neko moranje.

[pt 2.0]

cekaj, pt, oces knjigu da ti napisem?

čuj knjigu, hoću sitnu knjigu da mi napišete. tomove.bergasa me potpuno skunjio :( @indy - oko optuživanja... svi ljudi sa kojima se družim piju. nemam drugaricu da ne obožava pivo, na primer. al nekako, vidiš razliku između onih koji piju i onih koji su alkoholičari. ne umem da je objasnim precizno, al vidi se... Edited November 9, 2012 by PointTaken

[Milogled Bluff]

Ja na to gledam ovako: ljudi koji piju u doborm raspolozenju (da nesto proslave, da se lepo provedu i sl.) nisu alkoholicari, pa makar to radili redovno i cesto. Oni koji pak piju zbog tuge, napetosti ili dosade, imaju dobre sanse da postanu alkosi ili to vec jesu.

[ToniAdams]

haj, ju ar miloblaf, end ju ar elkoholik :(

[Milogled Bluff]

En elkoholik, stoko apismena

[ToniAdams]

to te je izvadilo

[Aineko]

čuj knjigu, hoću sitnu knjigu da mi napišete. tomove.

nije ti losa ideja (naslov: "umesto psihoterapije").

[Indy]

Oni koji pak piju zbog tuge, napetosti ili dosade, imaju dobre sanse da postanu alkosi ili to vec jesu.

Ako im je zivot stvarno tuzan, napet i dosadan, mozda i nije zgoreg da popiju nesto. EDIT. Zesce. Edited November 9, 2012 by Indy

[pt 2.0]

Ako im je zivot stvarno tuzan, napet i dosadan, mozda i nije zgoreg da popiju nesto. EDIT. Zesce.

to po onoj radovićevoj da ljude treba lečiti od nesreće a ne od alkohola, pošto je nesreća mnogo veći porok?neprihvatljivost svih osećanja/stanja sem sreće jedne neopisive... :) plus quick fix imperativ, i voila - umesili smo alkoholičara!lično imam problem sa nenapornim stanjima i lakim rešenjima. ne usrećuju me.

[Indy]

Ljudi su nesrecni iz raznih razloga. Neki su cak mozda i bioloske prirode. Mislim da je greska strogo suditi o tudjem osecaju nesrece (alkosi, narkosi i samoubice, included).

[Amelija]

Ima ovaj test

Ima i ovajBtw mislim da već spomenuh, ali i mene zanima kako se uopšte određuje šta je alkoholizam a šta ipak nije.Eno i Frank je nešto pisao kako su mu govorili "ne valja ti posao", i za mene su se nešto bili brinuckali u jednom periodu a totalno bez razloga, a sećam se i da su neki ljudi bili zabrinuti svojevremeno za jednog zajedničkog druga koji je tada pijuckao nešto svaki dan, čak i sam dok je spremao ispite, no ipak se nije proalkoholisao.

[pt 2.0]

Ljudi su nesrecni iz raznih razloga. Neki su cak mozda i bioloske prirode. Mislim da je greska strogo suditi o tudjem osecaju nesrece (alkosi, narkosi i samoubice, included).

nemaju samo alkoholičari tapiju na nesreću, ali da - osudi nema mesta.

Ne samo da se ovo na mene nikad nije odnosilo (ni jedan, a kamoli 2 "yes"), nego rekoh, ne znam nikog za koga bi to vazilo. Naravno, to je i zato sto biram drustvo.Dusebriznici cesto vide alkoholicara u svakom ko sa uzivanjem prinese casu ustima. A u stvari mislim da ti koji najvise uzivaju u picu, najmanje imaju sanse da budu alkosi. Nesto nemam utisak da alkosi uopste uzivaju u picu, vise je to neko moranje.

oko biranja društva.pomenula sam već vezu sa alkoholičarem. davno je bilo, pa su sećanja bleda al pamtim da u prvo vreme nisam kapirala, mislila sam da je ponašanje uzrokovano razlikom u sredinama iz kojih dolazimo (on je do rata živeo u sarajevu), meraklijski život i tako to... posle, kad sam ukapirala, imala sam moralnu dilemu da li treba nešto da pokušam da pomognem s jedne strane, i konstantan osećaj da smo mi u dve realnosti najveći deo vremena i da mi je on u drugoj realnosti (bilo da je pijan ili mamuran) i odbojan i stran.ovo za (ne)uživanje u piću se i meni čini.