Avionski udesi i nesreće

[Tale]

Kinezi su i previše ćutali sve ovo vreme.

[Roger Sanchez]

 

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Malaysia says satellite has spotted 122 potential objects in ocean possibly from missing plane.

[wall]

Tu su... Valjda.

[Skyhighatrist]

 

 

French satellite images have detected 122 objects in a 250 square mile area west of Perth. The objects range in length from 1m (3ft) to 23m (75ft). They were photographed on Sunday.

 

To je valjda to...

[nera]

FLASH: AMSA SAYS THREE OBJECTS SPOTTED, BUT NONE RELOCATED OR DISTINCTIVE OF MH370

[Muwan]

ovde piše da je moguće: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-captain-bill-palmer-on-fate-of-mh370-a-960464.html

 

a ova teorija mi zvuči još i ponajbolja do sada.

 

Previše je to nategnutih hipoteza. Na nekim kvalitetnim forumima su se javljali piloti koji imaju B777 licencu i avio inženjeri. Svi do jednog se slažu da je požar koji je dovoljno ozbiljan da onesposobi pilote i kompletno odseče kokpit od napajanja, a u isto vreme dopusti avionu da satima krstari i pravi zaokrete sve dok ne istroši poslednju kap goriva, jednostavno nemoguć. Svi do sada zabeleženi katastrofalni požari u avionima imaju dve zajedničke karakteristike: 1. Piloti su imali vremena da objave emergency (što su i učinili) i 2. Od detekcije požara do rušenja aviona prošlo je najviše 20 minuta.

 

 

Gentlemen

Let me share a few thoughts from a man who designed bits and pieces of the missing airplane, and probably bits and pieces of half the jets you folks fly on.

 

You should be highly suspicious of these stories about fires. Have any of you folks ever seen a cargo compartment smoke test? Modern jetliners will detect a burnt napkin in a space the size of a living room in under 3 minutes.

 

You should be highly suspicious of stories of large volumes of smoke propagating out of the cargo compartment. That’s because after we supplier types detect a teensy puff of smoke in all that big space, the airframer types goes back and flood it with smoke so dense you can hardly see and makes sure not one bit of smoke comes up into the passenger compartment.

 

Those folks at Hamilton aren’t sitting still, neither. Once we find smoke, they turn off the air conditioning fans and turn up the packs to keep smoke downstairs.

 

Now you’re going to say to me, what about Swissair? To which I’ll say, no modern jetliner is lined with insulation blankets made of tinder and oily rags, and no competent designer wires up a disreputable pile of entertainment boxes so the breakers won’t trip when it arcs.

 

Did the fire burn a hole in the fuselage and decompress it? Well, I have to say I followed the 787 lithium battery incident in great detail and was privileged to see pictures of the damage. That fire didn’t burn through a plastic fuselage. I would say it beggars the imagination to come up with a fire that burns through an aluminum skin without setting off a smoke detection a considerable time previous.

 

What about carbon monoxide? Well, you’re going to have to tell me what could generate CO in the airplane without making detectable smoke. Have you ever been on a jetliner when an engine leaked some of that wonderful fireproof oil they use? It’s a smell you’re not going to forget, let me tell you!

 

Now you’re going to say, what about a fire in the avionics? Most new jetliners automatically goes into smoke override, and the 777 is no exception. I have not personally witnessed it, but I’m told the override clears smoke so dense you can’t see the instruments in under 90 seconds.

 

And now let’s talk wiring – did you know that we have to supply extra long wire bundles for critical equipment? That’s because the airframers have to meet FAA separation requirements. So now your undetected fire has to burn through two different redundant wire bundles kept over 12 feet apart. That’s a darned big undetected fire! This is a modern jetliner – everything is multiply redundant to the point of absurdity.

 

Now I can’t say there isn’t some magic bullet that takes out the transponder and disables ACARS and depressurizes the airplane but somehow leaves the plane able to fly to fuel exhaustion after making several apparently commanded turn. Maybe some near impossible common mode failure in the load management system shut down a dozen isolated, multiply redundant systems without bringing up the backups. But I’ll tell you, it’s darned hard to believe.

 

Just when you thought you'd finally drowned it, the issue of fire just keeps on springing up

 

So, for the benefit of non-pilots, let's talk about fire - from the point of view of this former 747-400 commander's experience.

 

Cargo Fire:

The T7 is fully equipped with cargo fire detection and suppression for some 30 minutes or so (T7 drivers will fill in the number).

I've had a cargo fire warning. It rattles your eyeballs and soaks you with adrenaline. You can't ignore it. You do the drill and fire the bottles, put out a Mayday, ask for radar assistance, point the aircraft at a runway and get going down (in whichever order is appropriate, or all at once). It's just like we regularly practice in the sim. Mine turned out to be a false warning - but still......

In the position of MH370 there would have been radar assistance, a choice of runways within the fire suppression time available supported by the familiarity of being near base.

There is no way a cargo fire caused the loss of MH370, with no Mayday call, plenty of assistance available and time in hand to land.

 

Wheel bay fire:

If there had been a fire in the wheel bay the crew would have known about it from the sensors immediately after take-off. They would not have got as far as leaving departure control without asking for a return to land. Let's put this one to bed.

 

Flight-deck fire:

If a fire occurs behind a flight-deck instrument panel you know about it immediately. From experience, you smell it and see the smoke long before it takes hold. This type of fire can be difficult to deal with but there are extinguishers and axes/jemmies to hand. Oxygen masks on, Mayday, descent and diversion by the handling pilot while the other crew member(s) deal with the problem, is the response. There may be loss of some services depending on which panel is affected but at the end of the day the handling pilot can just take out the autopilot and fly the aeroplane, for which radar assistance resulting from that Mayday call is most helpful. Provided the fire is controlled to keep the smoke down and a runway is within reach there is no reason why a safe landing should not result.

For the reasons given for Cargo fire, a flight-deck fire did not cause the loss of MH370.

 

Electrics Compartment fire:

I've experienced smoke in the electrics bay. The compartment has a high airflow for cooling purposes and we smelt it on the flight-deck immediately, before there was any visible smoke. A quick check of the flight-deck panels, a zoom out into the cabin to check for smoke. a call to the galley-slaves to check the galley equipment - and it became immediately apparent where it must be coming from. In my case the appropriate CBs tripped themselves and the problem solved itself but in a more severe case it would be little different to the flight-deck fire case as above, except for some small extra difficulty of access (although our engineer was down there like a mole in a hole).

For the same reasons an electrics bay fire did not cause the loss of MH370.

 

Cabin fire:

Causes can be many. I've experienced a small furnishings fire (caused by an illegal cigarette we think). Smoke identified the source long before fire took hold. The cabin crew were on to it straight away with more extinguishers carried to the scene than I thought existed on the aircraft!

I've also had an electrical cabin fire. That was more difficult to locate as the smoke was distributed by the recirc fans. It eventually scorched a side panel revealing itself and the cabin crew pounced upon it relishing, it seemed, the opportunity to use the axe to get to it! We were already on approach by then but I'm confident that had we been in the middle of the Atlantic we would have dealt with it just as safely.

 

Incendiary devices:

In the cargo hold it becomes just another cargo fire, unless it is also an explosive device, in which case case the aircraft either breaks up (which we know MH370 did not do initially) or it may cause a decompression as well as a fire. In the latter case the fire suppression systems would likely be rendered inoperative or ineffective - clearly a more critical case. But pilots practice loss of cabin pressurisation drills frequently. If this had happened and the aircraft survived the initial explosion and the emergency descent they were still within range of a runway and they would have declared an emergency. Pilots do not forget to put on oxygen masks. In this case you just need a closer runway - and MH370 had one.

In the cabin, it's just a bigger fire. Trust me, the cabin crew will be there with extinguishers within seconds. There are more than enough extinguishers around.

If it is also an explosive device then we are back to the cargo hold explosion situation as above. The cabin crew may be stunned and react slowly but the flight crew will descend the aircraft and declare an emergency. There is no evidence that happened in this case.

 

The point I am making is that all fires on aircraft can be dealt with by the crew. There is ample equipment on board and sufficient crew members trained to use it. The problem is not in dealing with the initial fire but whether there is a runway close enough to use while the fire remains suppressed. That is what causes hull losses due to fire in flight. In the case of MH370 there was a choice of places to go and a radar controller to talk to and get help from.

[Prospero]

Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP  29m

INFOGRAPHIC: Map and details of the equipment used in the search for Flight #MH370 @AFPgraphics pic.twitter.com/NIqwFXRuMs

 

[Prospero]

Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP  3m

#BREAKING Thailand says satellite images show 300 floating objects in jet search

[Muwan]

Tajlandu bi bilo bolje da kaže zbog čega njihova vojska nije ni pokušala da kontaktira MH370 kada im se pojavio na radaru, i zbog čega su danima posle toga ćutali da su ga videli kako ide prema Andamanskom moru dok su se tri zemlje lomatale i gubile vreme na potragu u Južnom kineskom.

[Prospero]

Malaysia Flight 370: Latest Radar Data Sends Searchers 700 Miles North

 

‘Most Credible Lead Yet’ Based on Faster Airspeed

 

By Paul Riegler on 28 March 2014

The Chinese transport dock Kunlun Shan continues to participate in the search

 

The Australian government announced that the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines jet shifted hundreds of miles north Friday morning

In a statement released midday Friday, the Australian Maritime Safety Authority said that the Boeing 777 is likely not to have traveled as far south into the Indian Ocean as had previously been estimated.

 

The agency said that the new information was gleaned from an ongoing analysis of radar data between the South China Sea and the Strait of Malacca before radar contact with the plane was lost.  It called this the “most credible lead yet.”

 

The new search area is 684 miles (1,100 kilometers) to the north east of the previous one.  It was calculated after the analysis of the radar data indicated that the aircraft was travelling at a faster rate of speed than previously estimated and that it therefore would have burnt fuel more quickly.

 

“The new search area is approximately 319,000 square kilometres and around 1850 kilometres west of Perth.”  It is four times larger than the search area that was the focus on Thursday’s search.

 

Meanwhile, U.S. officials said that the FBI had completed its review of the captain’s flight simulator and other computer data taken from his home and found nothing of interest.

 

edit: sa bbc-a:

 

 

[Roger Sanchez]

Na kraju će taj debris washu-up-ati negdje na plaži Geraldtona.

[Caligula]

Jbt sve ovo kao neka prica Dina Bucatija.

 

Svakim narednim korakom resenje kao da je sve dalje, bez nade za resavanje.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Caligula

[Indy]

Nemaju pojma, ali pojma.

[wall]

Srušio se indijski herkules, angažovan na pretrazi... :(

[nera]

Videla malopre, ali koliko shvatih srusio se u sred Indije, nisam sigurna da se srusio u toku pretrage.