Ljudske posade u međuplanetarnim misijama - za i protiv

[Indy]

Pretpostavljam da mislis na poligon za testiranje letilica i "zabranjenu oblast", a ne detention centre (o cemu se zadnjih godina u Australiji, a i sire, puno pricalo). To zadnje jeste zatvoreno. O ovom prvom zaista ne znam nista, u stvari, sad se spremam da iscitam sta pise na Wikipediji (i linkovima). Iz nekog razloga se o tome slabo prica u austr. medijima (ili ja svakako nisam primetio).

Edited April 3, 2011 by Indy

[bigvlada]

evo ti nešto detaljnijehttp://www.astronautix.com/sites/woomera.htmProblem je što je dosta daleko od ekvatora, pa rakete nosači ne mogu da iskažu svoj pun potencijal. To će trajati dokle god budemo morali da se služimo hemijskim raketama. Ali položaj je sjajan za neku buduću kargo kosmičku luku (fast forward a few centuries :D )btw. po meni, ubedljivo najbolje mesto za lansiranje raketa je Somalija. Crnjak, zar ne? Pustinja severno od Kismajua je na samom ekvatoru, slabo je naseljena a okean je blizu (dostava raketa u delovima brodom je najjeftinija i logistički najmanje komplikovana varijanta). Ako nešto i omane prilikom lansiranja, pada u okean daleko od bilo kakvog kopna. Ono što očekujem da će se desiti je da će se sve zainteresovane zemlje saglasiti za jedinstven standard lansirnih tornjeva, koji bi mogao da opslužuje sve vrste raketa (ili da ih u cilju smanjenja troškova klasifikuju po tonaži raketa koje mogu da opslužuju). Ovo Rusi pokušavaju da urade sa svojim novim planiranim lansirnim rampama u Vostočniju, novom kosmodromu koji se gradi u istočnom Sibiru. Cilj im je da jedna rampa može da se koristi za lansiranje svih vrsta ruskih raketa.Dve, tri slične rampe u Somaliji bi bile itekako primamljive, pogotovo za kineske civilne programe kao i japanske koji svake godine ratuju sa ribarima oko Kagošime zbog lansirnih prozora. Prava je šteta što se narod tamo bavi piratstvom kada ima toliko profitabilniju perspektivu.

[bigvlada]

Pre letova, kosmonauti provode godine u simulatorima letelica i stanica.Ovo je simulator vojne stanice Saljut 6.Simulator Mira a u pozadini se vidi simulator Saljuta 7, poslednje sovjetske vojne stanice. Sve obuke na zemlji ne mogu da vas pripreme na ono što će vas sačekati na orbiti,termin kosa mi se raspršila na sve strane dobija sasvim nov smisao a pojam toga šta je gore a šta dole postaje veoma relativan. :D Da li bi mogli da spavate u ovom položaju?

[bigvlada]

Bilo je interesantno, početkom devedesetih, kada je gvozdena zavesa pala i kada su informacije o sovjetskim letelicama prvi put došle do šire javnosti na zapadu.

Naravno, nije bilo toliko strašno; kao što je Kuznjecov sakrio nk-33 motore u skladištu umesto da ih uništi, a Vladimir Čelomej decenijama krio orbitalne stanice u ćošku fabrike (sa oznakom radioaktivno) tako su i inženjeri sačuvali svoje projekte. Svi sovjetski planovi o letovima na mesec i mars su sačuvani kao i planovi i makete brodova, orbitalnih stanica i mesečevih baza. Kao i u USA, bilo je mnogo volje, mašte i znanja ali malo novca i razumevanja.

Edited April 10, 2011 by bigvlada

[bradilko]

@bigvlada

[badenac]

Pedeset godina od Gagarinovog leta u svemir-pedeset godina od izlazka coveka iz svoje kolevke.Film koji obelezava ovaj veliki jubilej moze se naci na:http://www.firstorbit.org/

Edited April 12, 2011 by badenac

[bigvlada]

Za dva i po sata ćemo navršiti pedeset godina prisustva ljudi u svemiru. Uvek je pitanje da li smo mogli da postignemo više. Tužna je činjenica da je samo 16 ljudi otišlo dalje od niske orbite (posade Apola 8,10,11,12,14,15,16 i 17). Sa nadom da će sledećih pedeset godina biti mnogo uspešnije, evo kako je to izgledalo na početku, iz perspektive sovjeta. Prvi humanoidni kosmonaut je u stvari bio Ivan Ivanovič. ;)

I članak o Gagarinovoj kosmičkoj karijerihttp://www.astronautix.com/astros/gagarin.htmNjemu u čast, zvanično ime Zvezdanog grada je sada Gagarinov centar za obuku kosmonauta. Postoji sjajna knjiga o toj ustanovi: Russia's Cosmonauts - Inside the Yuri Gagarin Training Center

[badenac]

Za dva i po sata ćemo navršiti pedeset godina prisustva ljudi u svemiru. Uvek je pitanje da li smo mogli da postignemo više. Tužna je činjenica da je samo 16 ljudi otišlo dalje od niske orbite (posade Apola 8,10,11,12,14,15,16 i 17). Sa nadom da će sledećih pedeset godina biti mnogo uspešnije, evo kako je to izgledalo na početku, iz perspektive sovjeta. Prvi humanoidni kosmonaut je u stvari bio Ivan Ivanovič. ;)

I članak o Gagarinovoj kosmičkoj karijerihttp://www.astronautix.com/astros/gagarin.htmNjemu u čast, zvanično ime Zvezdanog grada je sada Gagarinov centar za obuku kosmonauta. Postoji sjajna knjiga o toj ustanovi: Russia's Cosmonauts - Inside the Yuri Gagarin Training Center

Moglo je mnogo vise ,mada hrabri da posle 50 godina covecanstvo ipak moze da se podici da ima prvu naseobinu izvan Zemlje-medjunarodnu stanicu Alfa.

[hazard]

Tužna je činjenica da je samo 16 ljudi otišlo dalje od niske orbite (posade Apola 8,10,11,12,14,15,16 i 17).

Zaboravio si Apolo 13

[Bjesovi]

Russia wants a nuclear-powered spacecraft for Mars missionThe European Space Agency (ESA) is currently working with NASA to develop a major Mars exploration project.However, the ESA but has no immediate plans to collaborate with Russia, a nation which is also developing nuclear-powered spacecraft technology for a long journey to the red planet. Nuclear technology offers more power in less space, which makes it particularly attractive for long missions. Russia and the United States have been developing nuclear technology for decades, but placed new emphasis on the concept in recent years.The Russian government allotted 430 million rubles ($14.4 million USD) in 2010 to the cause.Alongside the Russians, the ESA is working with NASA on a project known as ExoMars (Exobiology in Mars), a similar but separate initiative to build nuclear-powered spaceships.Although all of the above-mentioned entities are researching nuclear power for spacecraft, a spokesman for the Russian Federal Space Agency Roscosmos reiterated there was no collaborative agreement between the three agencies.Roscosmos director Anatoly Perminov said the development of Megawatt-class nuclear space power systems (MCNSPS) would help Russia maintain a competitive edge in the space race for exploration of the moon and Mars.The Russians are hoping to complete the nuclear engine design by 2012 at an estimated cost of 17 billion rubles ($600 million USD).Still, it should be noted that ESA head Jean-Jacques Dorden recently confirmed the agency would "consider" using Russian experience and technology in its own nuclear-powered spacecraft developments.

Prica da Rusi razvijaju nuklearni pogono za vasionske letelice vec duze postoji:Russian Nuclear-Powered Spacecraft Gets Funding

[bigvlada]

Zaboravio si Apolo 13

Ma lupio sam još gore, računao sam da idu dve osobe po misiji, a išle su tri. Tako je to kada se piše na brzinu. Elem, ispravka: van niske orbite su išli Apolo 8 (let oko meseca), 10(testiranje mesečevog modula u orbiti Meseca), 11,12,13,14,15,16 i 17 - ukupno 27 ljudi. Po dvojica astronauta misija 11,12,14,15,16 i 17 su imali sreću da hodaju po mesecu, ukupno 12 ljudi. Misije 18, 19 i 20 su naknadno otkazane kao i brojne naknadne primene Apola u takozvanom Apolo application programu (a tu je tek bilo svega, od orbitalnih stanica do teleskopa).

Prica da Rusi razvijaju nuklearni pogono za vasionske letelice vec duze postoji:

objasnio sam već pre par strana, i jedni i drugi su takve motore imali još početkom sedamdesetih. A onda je ekološka svest bila na mnogo nižem nivou i imali su realne šanse da tako nešto i lansiraju. Danas? Teško.

[bigvlada]

Nova sonda koja bi trebalo da snimi polove Jupitera i ostalo što su Vojadžeri i Galileo propustili. I ovakve misije su postale skuplje od milijardu dolara (npr. potrošili su 120.000 dolara da transportuju satelit od fabrike do lansirnog kompleksa)Juno is on the clock for August blastoff to JupiterBY STEPHEN CLARKSPACEFLIGHT NOWPosted: April 11, 2011TITUSVILLE, Fla. -- Engineers and scientists eagerly unpacked the Juno spacecraft from its shipping crate Saturday, kicking off nearly four months of launch preparations before the $1 billion mission is shot toward Jupiter this summer.http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1104/11juno/

[bigvlada]

The plot thickens Curiosity rover gets taste of things to comeBY STEPHEN CLARKSPACEFLIGHT NOWPosted: April 7, 2011Engineers at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California are nearly finished assembling and testing the Mars Science Laboratory before shipping hardware to Cape Canaveral for final launch preparations. The $2.5 billion mission is due for launch as soon as Nov. 25 on an Atlas 5 rocket, beginning a nearly nine-month journey to Mars, where the spacecraft will deploy a massive rover named Curiosity to the surface. Earlier this year, the rover was put through vibration testing to simulate the intense shaking it will experience during blastoff. NASA also placed Curiosity inside a thermal vacuum chamber to test the rover in the environmental conditions of Mars, including cold temperatures of -202 degrees Fahrenheit and a low atmospheric pressure. Workers have been gradually putting together the Curiosity rover over the last year, and NASA released photos this week showing the craft almost as it will appear when traversing the surface of Mars. The rover's six wheels and camera mast were added in 2010, and Curiosity has since received its scientific sensors built to determine whether conditions at Mars were once favorable to support microbial life. Its 10 instruments include a comprehensive analysis tool to study soil samples on-board, a suite of panoramic and microscopic cameras, a laser beam to burn off the skin of rocks, and payloads to measure radiation and soil composition. Spain provided a weather station for the rover and Russia supplied an instrument to detect underground water ice. Stretching about 10 feet long, Curiosity is twice as big and five times as heavy as the Spirit and Opportunity rovers sent to Mars in 2003. Curiosity is about the size of a Mini Cooper, according to NASA. NASA plans to ship the Curiosity rover, its heat shield, descent system and cruise stage to Florida in May and June for final assembly and packaging for launch. A powerful Atlas 5 rocket, boosted by four strap-on solid motors, must launch the spacecraft between Nov. 25 and Dec. 18 to reach the Red Planet in August 2012. The images below show Curiosity in its nearly flight-ready state at JPL, including views inside the vacuum chamber and detailed shots of the rover's mast camera suite and robot arm. Photo credit: NASA/JPL-Caltechhttp://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1104/07curiosity/Problem će se rešiti onako kako sam mislio da će se rešiti ali iz drugih razloga. Biće jeftinije poslati četiri astronauta na misiju od 150+600+150 dana i sa njima par lowtech rovera nego slati još savršenije robotsko čudo. Ova cena od 2,5 milijardi za mini morisa se već opasno približava ciframa za misiju sa posadom iz mars direct i mars semi direct planova.

[bigvlada]

Scientists tell NASA to put spotlight on basic researchBY STEPHEN CLARKSPACEFLIGHT NOWPosted: April 6, 2011NASA's life and physical sciences portfolio has shrunk by two-thirds since 1996 as other programs took priority in a fight for funding, and the agency is "poorly positioned" to take advantage of the world-class research opportunities now available on the operational International Space Station, according to a National Research Council report. File photo of the International Space Station. Credit: NASA The report released Tuesday echoes growing concerns over NASA's basic research budget, which has been scavenged to fund other programs over the last two decades. "In the past decade, however, a consequence of those challenges has been a life and physical sciences research program that was dramatically reduced in both scale and scope, with the result that the agency is poorly positioned to take full advantage of the scientific opportunities offered by the now fully equipped and staffed ISS laboratory, or to effectively pursue the scientific research needed to support the development of advanced human exploration capabilities," scientists wrote in the report. Scientists evaluated research fields that are both enabled by access to space and facilitate further exploration. The panel found there is no clear institutional home for life and physical sciences at NASA, recommending the agency elevate the priority for such research and establish a division to manage biological and physcial science investigations. Stable funding will also be necessary to pay for a worthwhile research effort, researchers said. According to the decadal survey, NASA's budget for microgravity science dropped from about $500 million per year in 1996 to about $150 million in 2010. Scientists still need to answer key questions on astronauts' physical and mental health on long-term space expeditions, develop new technologies for life support systems, and investigate regenerative power sources to extend human presence in space. Discoveries in these fields and others will make possible deep space journeys to Mars, asteroids and a permanent base on the moon. "A focused life and physical sciences program can make possible the achievements that bring the space community, policymakers, and the U.S. public to a realization that we are ready for the next significant phase of human space exploration," said Elizabeth Cantwell, co-chair of the decadal survey and director of mission development at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. The NRC report is the first decadal survey on biological and physical sciences in space, a study to offer research suggestions to NASA for the next 10 years. The council regularly oversees decadal surveys on planetary science, astrophysics, Earth science and other disciplines applying to NASA. One of the metrics the decadal survey used in its analysis was the benefit space research would have to solve problems on Earth. "Research in the life and physical sciences can enable space missions and, as a unique benefit, there is critical research that can in turn be enabled on Earth by access to space," said Wendy Kohrt, professor at the University of Colorado in Denver and co-chair of the committee. "With the advantage of the space environment, we believe there is an opportunity to significantly advance fundamental scientific understanding." NASA is seeking a non-profit organization to manage research on the space station, which has been designated a national laboratory. Officials plan to announce a winner in the competition around the end of May.http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1104/06lifescience/Crno na belo, oni bi i dalje (posle više decenija proučavanja uticaja mikrogravitacije na ljudsko telo) želeli da se bave time (i to u istom ili povećanom obimu). Teza da (i dalje) mora da se istražuje kako se ljudi ponašaju pri skoro nultoj gravitaciji da bi mogli da prežive na Mesecu gde je ona 0,16G ili Marsu gde je 0,37G je krajnje nategnuta. Ne znam koliko je tona urina i sličnog otpada skupljeno i koliko je ljudi svakodnevno podvrgavano najrazličitijim testovima (merenje stopala npr.)tokom više godina ali ovo liči na kuknjavu administracije kada treba da popiju otkaze. United Space Alliance (koja je bila zadužena za šatl) je već krenula sa otpuštanjima, sa preko 10.000 ljudi će pasti na oko 2800 posle penzionisanja šatla. Značajan deo istraživanja koje se obavljaju na stanicama spadaju baš u "life sciences", umesto da su napravili stanicu gde bar moduli sa posadom imaju 1G i posvete se istraživanjima u oblasti metalurgije i proizvodnje gde smo užasno tanki. I dalje se ne zna kako treba graditi veće strukture u svemiru, kako skladištiti gorivo u većim količinama tokom dužih perioda itd... Krajem sedamdesetih (pre nego što je ona krilata rupa bez dna poletela) su perspektive bile mnogo drugačije a o fabrikama u svemiru i solarnim farmama se govorilo kao o normalnim projektima koji su izvesni do 2000. godine.

[bigvlada]

Ono o čemu sam pričao, o masivnim strukturama u svemiru i kosmičkim fabrikama (ali lakše je baviti se merenjima stopala i analizama urina), članak iz Popular Mechanicsa, iz juna 1977. 55 kvadratnih kilometara po jednoj solarnoj farmi, svaka ima kapacitet od 10.000 megavata (pet puta više od Đerdapa 1). Gore se transportuju samo gustopakovane šipke i ostali delovi, segmenti se proizvode u orbitalnoj fabrici (skupo je i neekonomično slati kompletne delove - zauzimaju mnogo mesta - a to se sada ipak radi za međunarodnu stanicu).Na slici se vidi jedna od SSTO (single stage to orbit) letelica (bilo je više projekata, rhombus, ithacus, chrysler serv, kankouh maru (istina samo za putnike)) koja u toku jedne orbite izbaci 200 do 250 tona materijala u nisku orbitu odakle se transportuje do fabrika. Ključna prednost orbitalnih centrala u odnosu na zemaljske je što je kapacitet šest puta veći od najboljih lokacija na zemlji. Ne treba vam ogroman transmisioni sistem (npr. od Sahare do Evrope), antene se postavljaju blizu gradova na zemljištu niske vrednosti (recimo čak i iznad deponija). Potrebna je ogromna antena na zemlji ali i tu postoji štos. Ona ne mora da bude na površini već može da bude izdignuta. Putnici u avionu, ptice i ljudi koji obrađuju npr. plastenike ispod antene mogu da nastave da se ponašaju kao i do sada.

Par citata iz članka, čisto da osetite kakva je bila atmosfera pre šatla (koji se inače pominje u članku, kao nešto što se može koristiti u prvoj fazi jer ima nosivost od 80 tona - kako će se pokazati, još jedna gnusna laž - pravi kapacitet je skoro četiri puta manji):It is immense, but possible, well whithin our present technology. While the Space Solar Power Sattelite poses some significant techincal challenges, our analyses shows them to be less formidable than those we faced at the outset of project Apollo. We are reminded of the widely expressed view, in 1960, that man would land on the moon some time after the year 2000.