Izrael, Palestina i arapske zemlje

[Аврам Гојић]

Da. Ili pokusas sa se odbranis kako znas i umes, nozevima i mocugama. Ne znam anatomiju dogadjaja i kako im je uopste palo na pamet da napadaju naoruzane i superiorno obucene komandose.Jedna jako tuzna posledica napada:Turkish Jew: I've never seen such protestsJews living in Istanbul told Ynet why Israelis should stay away from Turkey in the near future. "Thousands of protestors are flocking to the city. Even after Operation Cast Lead we didn't see such protests," an Istanbul Jew told Ynet. The man, who works near the Israeli Embassy and witnessed the angry protests, said the demonstrators came from all parts of Turkey. "They all have flags of Palestine and Turkey and they're all angry. There are convoys of cars with flags of Palestine. We are afraid to identify ourselves as Jews," he said. "We are keeping a low profile." He said that the riots outside the Israeli Embassy were wild. "I have already seen anti-Israel protests. I have been living here since I was born, but I have never seen such a thing. The protestors tried to storm through the police, broke the embassy buildings and tried to break in. "The police were forced to use water hoses to disperse the crowd. They chanted, 'We will be shahidim (martyrs)' and 'Death to Israel'. After leaving the embassy, they moved to one of the main squares here. "There is a difficult atmosphere here. The television doesn't show the attack on the soldiers, but broadcasts the soldiers' forcible response," said the Jew, who asked to remain anonymous. "There was a difficult atmosphere during Operation Cast Lead as well, but it never reached this level. I am talking to you and fear I will be heard." Yitzhak, a former Israeli who has been living in Istanbul for the past 15 years, told Ynet that the country's Jews have been experiencing real fear for the first time. "I'm not in Istanbul at the moment, but my workers have told me, 'Don't come back.' That says everything. I spoke to all of my acquaintances and they are talking about horrible protests. Not all Turks share Hamas' opinions, but nonetheless, the situation has become unpleasant."

Edited May 31, 2010 by vasudeva418

[Pontijak]

neko ti se iz mraka strmoglavi na brod, naoruzan do zuba. u medjunarodnim vodama. sta radis?

uh. ovo je igranka bez prestanka. a milice male na brodu sve nevinasca od turista, kako da ne. samim tim sto su zvanicno bili u humanitarnoj misiji mogli su lepo da puste da komandosi zauzmu brod i ceo konvoj i onda se to lepo priveze uz neki dok u nekoj izraelskoj luci i lepo istrkeljise sve sa nadom da ce se medju hranom i odecom naci i nedozvoljena sredstva, da ne kazem oruzje - to je verovatno bila namera vojnog genijalca koji je smislio celu operaciju. dakle, umesto da lepo blokiraju konvoj u izraelskim teritorijalnim vodama sto jeste da bi trajalo djavo i po vremena sa svom nepozeljnom medijskom paznjom ali bi svi bili zivi - zdravi na brodovima. a sto je izrael ovom akcijom izbegao medijsku paznju svaka mu cast. stvarno mislim da je vojni genije izraelske vojske koji je ovo smislio zasluzio da zavrsi vojnu karijeru kao inspektor vojnih septickih jama.i da, svedocenje turskog jevrejina je najbolji dokaz kako se politicke igre, takticka nadmudrivanja i slicna sranja koje primenjuju sukobljene strane odrazavaju na obicne ljude. tuzno. kao sto je i tuzno sto ce i ovu tragediju da iskoriste fundamentalisti na svim stranama da bi spinovanjem pothranljivali strasti i mrznju medju ljudima. Edited May 31, 2010 by Pontijak

[Аврам Гојић]

Za dan-dva imacemo pred sobom i biografije ubijenih, do tada cu se suzdrzati od spekulacija o njihovom profilu. U medjuvremenu, izraelska strana price. Inace brod je bio na 70 nautickih milja od obale, sto ovaj tekst propusta da pomene, izrazavajuci zaprepascenje varvarskim postupkom aktivista na ladji. Napali su vojnike koji su mirno i naoruzani samo pistoljima kao sto je ovaja neki bogme i naoruzani paintball puskama, sto je inace praksa komandosa sirom sveta u ovakvim situacijama, pokusali da se spuste na brod u medjunarodnim vodama i lepo popricaju sa posadom.‘They came for war’By YAAKOV KATZ 05/31/2010 20:14 Navy commandos describe takeover of the Mavi Marmara.After several hours of radio communications and warnings that the Mavi Marmara would be boarded if the captain did not change his ship’s course, at 4 am Monday, OC NavyVice-Admiral Eliezer “Cheney” Marom, who had set up a command post on the INS Victory, gave the order to Flotilla 13 to board the ship.The three Israeli Air Force Blackhawk Helicopters hovering nearby made their approach above the Mavi Marmara’s upper deck. Sitting on board, the naval commandos could just make out the few dozen activists gathered below. Carrying non-lethal weapons as well as pistols, the last thing the soldiers thought they would walk into was a well-planed lynch.“As the 15 of us slid down the ropes, 30 of them were waiting for us on the deck,” one of the commandos later told reporters. “They charged us and threw a few of the soldiersoff the deck to the floor below. We did not expect to find ourselves in such a situation.”The assessment within the Navy was that the activists would resist the Israeli takeover of their ship but along the lines of the demonstrations the IDF faces weekly in the West Bank where Palestinians protest against the security barrier. Rocks and punches would be thrown as well as an occasional knife but not the extent of violence they met.As the rope fell from the helicopter onto the Mavi Marmara’s deck, some of the Turkishactivists grabbed it, tied it to an antenna likely hoping that it would bring down the helicopter. The Navy commandos decided to still go ahead with the operation and began sliding down onto the ship.Armed with rifles that could shoot paintballs – which can hurt but not kill – the soldierslanded on the ship and immediately came under attack by dozens of activists armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. Activists grabbed soldiers and tried to hold them hostage, stripping them of their helmets and equipment.One of the soldiers tried to protect a commando who was being lynched by a group ofactivists. They were instructed by the flotilla commander to refrain from using their sidearm unless their lives were at risk.<br style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline; ">Soldiers feared for their lives, asked permission to open fire<br style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline; ">The force threw several stun grenades but the violent attacks continued. Two soldierswere injured and some of the activists succeeded in stealing one of the soldier’s guns. Shots were fired and one of the soldiers fell to the ground unconscious. Fearing for their lives, the soldiers asked and received permission to open fire, first taking aim at theactivists’ feet.In one corner of the ship, the commandos saw a gun flash. They returned fire and started chasing the shooter but could not find him.As the clashes intensified, additional commandos boarded the ship as well as members of the Border Police’s Yasam unit who are experts in riot control and crowd dispersion. After less than an hour, the shipwas in Israeli hands. The price though was steep – eight soldiers were injured, several of them seriously and at least nine activists were killed.By the evening, the naval commandos were back at their base in northern Israel and had begun their debriefing.The videos taken by the IDF were passed around throughout the defense establishment and made their way to other special forces, including the Israel Police’s elite counter-terror unit Yamam, which had fought to participate in the mission but had been left on the sidelines due to legal complications involving police operations out at sea.“The soldiers acted with the utmost nobility,” said one police source close to the Yamam. “They engaged in hand-to-hand combat, sustained injuries, but only opened fire after one of them was lying on the ground unconscious and two others had been shot. This was an unbelievable demonstration of restraint.”

Edited May 31, 2010 by vasudeva418

[Shan Jan]

ma znam da nisi mislio na oruzano najebavanje :) a o kilavoj EU... pa izrael je u proslom veku bio jedan od sampiona rezolucija u UN donesenih protiv njega pa je eto ekonomski sasvim lepo preziveo naravno uz USA podrsku iako americke administracije nisu uvek bile u bezuslovnoj ljubavi sa izraelskim administracijama. a iskreno receno, sumnjam da bi EU cedila ekonomskim bojkotom izrael, suvise se tu para okrece a ekonomija je u krizi i treba je pokrenuti i tako to

Ma narawski da je ekonomija najbitnija ali bitno je i da li europljani smeju da se otisnu sa obala. Sta ce prevagnuti zavisi od mnogo faktora koje ni izraelci ne mogu da odrede pa se sve nadam da ce da se opamete.

Nemojte mi glavu otkinuti ali na snimcima se vidi kako vojnika cum se spuste niz konopac počinju da mlate ko volove u kupusu.. Ne pravdam time volove koji su ih poslali tamo, samo kažem da ne deluje da su pucali baš iz obestihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSFwyWyVo74(oko 1 05)

Daj bre, ti palestinci i izraleci su u stogodisnjem ratu. Ovi sto salju pomoc u gazu znaju da se to izraelcima ne svidja i znaju da ove zabole mnogo tuki za palestinske zivote. Jes bas ce mirno da gledaju kako im "kontrola" u fantomkama i sa heklerom upada i sve ih odvodi u "unapred spremljen smestaj" u Izraelu. Ja bih prvi zapucao. Da su izraelci hteli sto mirnije i sa manje zrtava da ovo rese, resili bi ga po danu. Ali bilo im je bitno da se situacija resi brzo i efikasno. I uspeli su. Pobili su druge (nebitno), ni jedan izraelac nije stradao (bitno), brod zauzet. Mission accomplished.

[Pontijak]

Za dan-dva imacemo pred sobom i biografije ubijenih, do tada cu se suzdrzati od spekulacija o njihovom profilu.

ma... tuzno mi bilo da gledam one vojne snimke, pracke i klikeri, mocuge... nesrecnici su mislili da je tehnika ulicne borbe efikasna na brodu a uostalom i ti ulicni sukobi sa izraelskom vojskom i policijom se uvek zavrse sa ranjenim i poginulim ljudima plus sto na brodu nisu bili obicni izraelski pesadinci nego elitne trupe. znam da se mnogi nece sloziti sa mnom ali bolje da su se jednostavno predali i pustili vreme da im donese benefit od medijske paznje zarobljavanja konvoja. da ne pominjem sto ni turskoj ovo ne treba zbog unutrasnje politike, samo im jos fali jacanje ekstremizma koji ce se naravno hraniti i ovim tragicnim dogadjajem. da je izrael gubitnik u ovoj milionitoj epizodi sukoba to nema sumnje. jedini dobitnici su ustvari gospodari rata na svim stranama. pfuj.

[Аврам Гојић]

pa i ja bih vise voleo da su se predali, bili bi deportovani i dovidjenja. nisam pristalica martirstva koje ja podrzavam lezeci ispod jorgan planine.

[Budja]

Evo gleam na Skaj Njuzu nekog piara iz Jerusalima koji baca svakako zanimljiv spin - sva i cela odgovornost leži na Hamasu, i Izrael ne duguje nikakvo izvinjenje porodicama posade, ako neko treba da da izvinjenje to je Hamas.

Verovatno Mark Regev.Retko ljigavo-inteligentna pojava.

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

Verovatno Mark Regev.Retko ljigavo-inteligentna pojava.

A jok. Njegovu simpatičnu njušku sam odavno upamtio tokom onog rata od pre godinu-dve, naježim se kad ga vidim. Ovo je bio segment od 2-3 minuta, mora da su našli nekog manjeg činovničića u ministarstvu spinovanja.

[Budja]

ma ha'aretzu ima slika 1 krvoloka sa handžaromTko bi ostao hladnokrvan dok ovaj uz arlauk nasrće na njega sa nožinom, nek prvi baci šuriken.

Je l' ovo sa broda?Ne izgleda tako. Ovi iza 'ladno fotografisu.

[Аврам Гојић]

Ima dana kada forumasima izmice sarkazam, to obicno ide u serijama, pa su onda danima ponovo svi senzitivni na stilske obrte.

[Budja]

plasim se da nisu obratili paznju na zastavu vec na aktivisticki dekor, da ne kazem gledali su modne detalje a ne zastavu

Ne shvatam.U cemu je problem samodnim detaljima?

[Pontijak]

Ma narawski da je ekonomija najbitnija ali bitno je i da li europljani smeju da se otisnu sa obala. Sta ce prevagnuti zavisi od mnogo faktora koje ni izraelci ne mogu da odrede pa se sve nadam da ce da se opamete. Daj bre, ti palestinci i izraleci su u stogodisnjem ratu. Ovi sto salju pomoc u gazu znaju da se to izraelcima ne svidja i znaju da ove zabole mnogo tuki za palestinske zivote. Jes bas ce mirno da gledaju kako im "kontrola" u fantomkama i sa heklerom upada i sve ih odvodi u "unapred spremljen smestaj" u Izraelu. Ja bih prvi zapucao. Da su izraelci hteli sto mirnije i sa manje zrtava da ovo rese, resili bi ga po danu. Ali bilo im je bitno da se situacija resi brzo i efikasno. I uspeli su. Pobili su druge (nebitno), ni jedan izraelac nije stradao (bitno), brod zauzet. Mission accomplished.

pa i ja se nadam da ce izraelci da se opamete. grehota je sto decenijama trose svoje resurse na rat umesto da razvijaju mirnodopske potencijale svoje zemlje a mora im se priznati da su i sto se toga tice jedna sasvim efikasna i pristojna drzava.kratko i jasno si opisao situaciju. mada, opet ponavljam: vojni genije koji je smislio ovo treba da bude inspektor vojnih septickih jama. na duzi rok ovo ne koristi izraelu. ne treba mu nov podsticaj da ga u regionu mrze do iza granica iracionalnog. da, resili su situaciju brzo i efikasno ali pobogu, nije ovo otet avion ili olimpijsko selo u minhenu. ovo je nesto sasvim drugacije. i uzgred da dodam, ma i mnoge palestinske lidere, hamas narocito, boli tuki za palestinske zivote. tragedija regiona da stalno duva vetar u jedra gospodara rata na svim stranama.

[Pontijak]

Ne shvatam.U cemu je problem samodnim detaljima?

problem je u mom nacini izrazavanja misli :) htedoh reci da je u kodu paranoje izraelske vojske da je iza svakog palestinskog, hajde da kazem islamskog, humanitarca sakriven potencijalni terorista. to sam hteo da kazem kada sam linkovao onu fotografiju.

[Budja]

Nemojte mi glavu otkinuti ali na snimcima se vidi kako vojnika cum se spuste niz konopac počinju da mlate ko volove u kupusu.. Ne pravdam time volove koji su ih poslali tamo, samo kažem da ne deluje da su pucali baš iz obesti

ha-ha...Muje ce ti oprostiti sto te je tukao filozofija. Off-topic licno iskustvo:Inace, Vaso, Freee Gaza Movement je bas organizovao skupljanje pomoci i kulturno-umetnici program u parku iznad Hipodroma pre dva vikenda u Istambulu, bas kada sam se tamo zatekao. Video sam i brodove sa palestinskim zastavama kod Eminomua.

[Аврам Гојић]

Ovo je mnogo veci udarac na turski sekularizam od milion marama na fakultetima...