Utisak nedelje

[pt 2.0]

 

24 minutes ago, Host said:

Mislim da je jedino moguce reci da nije potvrdjeno da se Covid19 prenosi aerosolno, ali da je vrlo lako moguce da se ustanovi i taj mehanizam prenosa. 

hm. tako nekako. ovaj tvoj izveštaj što si linkovao o tome konkretno govori sledeće:

Routes of transmission

COVID-19 is transmitted via droplets and fomites during close unprotected contact between an infector and infectee. Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence; however, it can be envisaged if certain aerosol-generating procedures are conducted in health care facilities. Fecal shedding has been demonstrated from some patients, and viable virus has been identified in a limited number of case reports. However, the fecal-oral route does not appear to be a driver of COVID-19 transmission; its role and significance for COVID-19 remains to be determined. Viral shedding is discussed in the Technical Findings (Annex C).

 

takođe u delu izveštaja koji govori o šupljinama u postojećem znanju, navode i ulogu transmisije aerosola:

D. Knowledge Gaps - Knowledge gaps and key questions to be answered to guide control strategies include:

...

Modes of Transmission:

o Role of aerosol transmission in non-health care settings

o Role of fecal-oral transmission

 

na internetu ima da se nađe i ova informacija, vezana za skoro objavljeni rad, tj preliminarnu studiju:
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html

 

 @3opge masovnog iskijavanja nije moralo da bude. dovoljno da je bilo masovnog pipanja istih površina i potom lica... plus malo kijanja... ?

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by pt 2.0

[3opge]

8 minutes ago, pt 2.0 said:

 

hm. tako nekako. ovaj tvoj izveštaj što si linkovao o tome konkretno govori sledeće:

Routes of transmission

COVID-19 is transmitted via droplets and fomites during close unprotected contact between an infector and infectee. Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence; however, it can be envisaged if certain aerosol-generating procedures are conducted in health care facilities. Fecal shedding has been demonstrated from some patients, and viable virus has been identified in a limited number of case reports. However, the fecal-oral route does not appear to be a driver of COVID-19 transmission; its role and significance for COVID-19 remains to be determined. Viral shedding is discussed in the Technical Findings (Annex C).

 

takođe u delu izveštaja koji govori o šupljinama u postojećem znanju, navode i ulogu transmisije aerosola:

D. Knowledge Gaps - Knowledge gaps and key questions to be answered to guide control strategies include:

...

Modes of Transmission:

o Role of aerosol transmission in non-health care settings

o Role of fecal-oral transmission

 

na internetu ima da se nađe i ova informacija, vezana za skoro objavljeni rad, tj preliminarnu studiju:
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html

 

 @3opge masovnog iskijavanja nije moralo da bude. dovoljno da je bilo masovnog pipanja istih površina i potom lica... plus malo kijanja... ?

 

ne verujem u to pipanje, tj vise verujem Osterholmu koji je daleko veci autoritet u ovim stvarima.

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by 3opge

[hoffnung]

6 minutes ago, pt 2.0 said:

 

 @3opge masovnog iskijavanja nije moralo da bude. dovoljno da je bilo masovnog pipanja istih površina i potom lica... plus malo kijanja... ?

 

 

i ne mora kijanje, mogli su da budu blizu jedan drugog, tokom razgovora da izbace kapljice. izmedju ostalog zato i zagovaraju da se ljudi ne priblizavaju jedni drugima, odn. da rastojanje bude barem kao sto je bilo izmedju zorana radovanovica i olje beckovic, to je i napomenuo kako su jedino njih dvoje bezbedni, dok on nije bezbedan sa ostalom dvojicom pored njega.

[mraki]

18 minutes ago, Host said:

Procitaj sta sam okacio, da ne ponavljam. Strucnjaci kazu da ne mogu da tvrde sa sigurnoscu. 

 

Asimptomatski prenos je onaj koji me zabrinjava. Zarazeni koji nisu razvili simptome bolesti ne kaslju niti kijaju, pa je pitanje na koji nacin prenose virus ako ne aerosolno. 

Pročitao, slažem se da se ne bi trebalo ovako nešto sa sigurnošću tvrditi, plus ono što si predhodno pisao da je definicija aerosola problematična.

Ali ostaje to da su ruke najproblematičnije, i da stavarno tako jednostavno možemo znatno umanjiti rizik.

 

Šta je asimptomatski prenos? Zar i oni koji nisi razvili klasične simptome virusa ne mogu da ga prenesu putem ruku?

 

15 minutes ago, 3opge said:

necete valjda tvrditi da je na konferenciji u Biogenu bilo masovno iskijavanje jednih u druge posle cega je vise od 70 ljudi bilo zarazeno.

tvrdnja o obaveznim kapljicama koje lete jednostavno nije tacna i kao sto se vidi vec je opovrgnuta praksom.

 

Pa ostaju ruke. Rukovanje, dodirivanje istog predmeta...

Edited March 16, 2020 by mraki

[pt 2.0]

izvini, mraki, ali definicija aerosola nije problematična uopšte, i tačno se zna šta su aerosoli, pa i bioaerosoli.

potražila zorgeovog autoriteta.

Osterholm ovde tvrdi sledeće, meni malo neprecizno:

He said the Coronavirus is transmitted in two ways. "Through just kind of close contact with someone and breathing their air and those droplets that you cough out land on a surface."

 

verovatno sam ja biased jer imam iskustvo u vezi sa tim koliko se lako kontaminacija sa čvrstih površina raznosi...

over&out. neka nauka pokaže šta je.

[3opge]

2 minutes ago, pt 2.0 said:

izvini, mraki, ali definicija aerosola nije problematična uopšte, i tačno se zna šta su aerosoli, pa i bioaerosoli.

potražila zorgeovog autoriteta.

Osterholm ovde tvrdi sledeće, meni malo neprecizno:

He said the Coronavirus is transmitted in two ways. "Through just kind of close contact with someone and breathing their air and those droplets that you cough out land on a surface."

 

verovatno sam ja biased jer imam iskustvo u vezi sa tim koliko se lako kontaminacija sa čvrstih površina raznosi...

over&out. neka nauka pokaže šta je.

odgledaj onaj Osterholmov intervju gore.

[Krošek]

izvukao sam relevantne delove iz transkripta tog intervjua

 

Quote

 

We now have data to show that you’re infectious before you even get sick and in some cases quite highly infectious. Just breathing is all that you need to do.

...

/limiting contact helps/ because it’s like putting rods in a reaction. If you don’t have as much close contact, you can not transmit as much. If I’m sitting in a room with a hundred people and we’re sharing air, the transmission’s remarkable. Right here, off the coast of California, you’ve got your cruise ship. Cruise ships are notorious for recirculating air inside the inner cabins. We’ve had a number of outbreaks.

/That’s why they’re having these outbreaks on cruise ships./ And then you leave them on there. I think the cruelest human experiment we’ve done in a long time with humans is leave them on these ships. Get them off right away.

...

/walking around with masks on, wearing gloves is largely nonsense/ First of all, let’s step back, the primary mechanism for transmission is just the respiratory route, it’s just breathing. In studies in Germany, which just have been published literally in the last 24 hours, they actually followed a group of people who had been exposed to somebody in an automobile manufacturing plant and then they had nine people that, with this exposure, he said, “if you have any symptoms at all, contact us we want to follow up with you.” And they all agreed. Well, they got infected. And so in the very first hours just feeling bad, sore throat, they went in and sampled the throats, their saliva, their nose for virus, they did blood, they did stool, they did urine. And they found that at that very moment when they first got sick, they had incredibly high levels of virus, sometimes 10000 times that we saw with SARS, in their throats. Meaning they were infectious at that point already and they hadn’t even had symptoms yet of really any nature, they weren’t coughing yet. And that’s where we’re concerned because that’s the kind of transmission… I always have said, “Trying to stop influenza virus transmission is like try to stop the wind.” We’ve never had anything successfully do that other than vaccine and we don’t have a vaccine here.

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by Krošek
link

[keitel]

Poslednja stranica i po bolje da ide na korisne informacije.

[garmonbozia]

https://www.nedeljnik.rs/olja-beckovic-za-nedeljnik-rs-bez-utiska-nedelje-uzivo-iz-vlade-mi-je-receno-da-emisiju-mogu-da-snimim-unapred-i-da-gosti-ne-smeju-da-budu-stariji-od-65/

 

Ukinuo utisak uživo.

[mraki]

Zar mediji nisu nekako izuzeti od toga, kako se proizvodi ostali program?

[stoka]

A kako sad glasanje za utisak, ono javljanje u program ...?

 

A što Olja i gosti ne bi posle emisije prespavali na Novoj, pa ujutru, recimo, posle osam (s obzirom na najave produženja policijskog časa) otišli na burek sa jogurtom, pa onda svako domu svome ...?

Edited March 19, 2020 by stoka

[kud u maglu Simoviću]

glasanje neće biti, mogu da prate glasanje na tw pa da u kajronu^tm proglase pobednika

Edited March 19, 2020 by kud u maglu Simoviću

[mraki]

Ne može Olja taj deo sa gledaocima da odradi sama iz studija, live?

Mislim da mogu i ona i gosti dobiti te dozvole vrlo lako...

Edited March 19, 2020 by mraki

[Tihajeza]

Ili da gosti gostuju putem video linka iz svojih kuća, a ona nek bude na tv do ujutru?

[Frank Pembleton]

Zar mediji nisu nekako izuzeti od toga, kako se proizvodi ostali program?

Jbga nisu za emisije zabavno informativnog tipa, dosta njih je prilagodilo termine snimanja, jer im mup nije prihvatio stavljanje na "spisak dozvoljenih"...



... Shiit has hit the fan...