SPC i njeni rituali u doba Korone

[אַף אֶחָד]

4 minutes ago, harper said:

 

Ako si krenuo da me ubedjujes u licemerje popova samo da ti kazem da kucas na otvorena vrata. Ne vrednujem njihovu "argumentaciju", konstatujem. To su ljudi koji veruju da je bog poslao sina putem bezgresnog zaceca da ga Rimljani iskasape kako bi svojim bolom isplatio grehove svih nas a onda posle tri dana ustao iz groba i rekao - cao, odoh nazad kod caleta, dosta sam se zajebavao ovde sa vama. Vec kod prve trecine prethodne recenice razum kolabira i pregori.

 

Problem je sto ni mi ponekad nismo mnogo bolji. Evo ga NevenMan priziva karmu na popa koji zagovara pricesce. Religijom protiv religije, ljuti lek za ljutu ranu.

 

Mislio sam na licemerje novo-vernika. U raspravama redovno dodjem s njima do "A jeste li vi zapravo procitali Bibliju?" Pa se ispostavi da ogromna vecina njih nije procitala vise od par strana. Ovo sto kod nas upraznjavaju nije cak ni hriscanstvo, ni pravoslavlje, vec nekakav paganski melanz svega i svacega umotan pod ambalazu svetoslavlja, gde su Zeveti zamenjeni poslanicama i ostalim dnevno politickim spisima. Miodrag Popovic u "Vidovdan i casni krst" se prilicno detaljno time bavio.

[Anonymous]

2 minutes ago, chandra said:

 

Mislio sam na licemerje novo-vernika. U raspravama redovno dodjem s njima do "A jeste li vi zapravo procitali Bibliju?" Pa se ispostavi da ogromna vecina njih nije procitala vise od par strana. Ovo sto kod nas upraznjavaju nije cak ni hriscanstvo, ni pravoslavlje, vec nekakav paganski melanz svega i svacega umotan pod ambalazu svetoslavlja, gde su Zeveti zamenjeni poslanicama i ostalim dnevno politickim spisima. Miodrag Popovic u "Vidovdan i casni krst" se prilicno detaljno time bavio.

 

+1

[napadaj]

39 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

Kako vidim naši moroni jedini istrajavaju na tim glupostima, ostali su ipak razumniji.

 

edit: sekunudu ranije sličan post.

 

Ima idiota na sve strane.

 

https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/Louisiana-pastor-says-he-ll-keep-violating-15169615.php

 

Treba VPN, pa evo paste celog teksta:

 

Churchgoers flock to hear Louisiana pastor despite virus ban

Spoiler

 

CENTRAL, La. (AP) — Buses and cars filled a Louisiana church parking lot for another service Tuesday evening as worshippers flocked to hear a Louisiana pastor who is facing misdemeanor charges for holding services despite a ban on gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic.

 

A few protesters turned out, too, including a man shouting through a bullhorn against those gathering at the Life Tabernacle Church in the city of Central, where pastor Tony Spell has been holding services. Another demonstrator held up a sign reading: “God don't like stupid."

 

Afterward, people began leaving the church, some chatting outside the front doors, and many appearing to not be adhering to social distancing recommendations to remain at least six feet (2 meters) apart. Hugs and handshakes were shared freely as people said their goodbyes and departed.

 

Hours earlier on Tuesday, Spell was issued a summons for holding services previously at the church in violation of the governor's order banning gatherings.

 

“Come out, Tony. Come tell us why you’re endangering people’s lives," the man with the bullhorn shouted Tuesday evening, directing his words at the pastor.

Flanked by some of his congregation, including children and older people, Spell emerged from the church later Tuesday night and said he is going to keep his church doors open. He said he doesn’t consider keeping his doors open any different than keeping the doors of Walmart open. Spell also compared going to church to going to the hospital, but for spiritual healing.

 

“We are needy people. Our souls are lost,” he said. “We need help, and the church is the salvation center of the soul, the sanctuary where we come together and meet.”

 

Around Louisiana, more than 5,200 people have confirmed virus infections, and 239 state residents have died, according to the Louisiana health department.

 

The order from Gov. John Bel Edwards prohibits gatherings of more than 10 people, said East Baton Rouge Parish District Attorney Hillar Moore. Each violation carries a maximum penalty of six months in jail and a $500 fine, Moore said.

 

“The whole situation just puts everyone at risk,” Moore said. “We ask everyone to abide by the governor's order.”

 

The governor has urged church leaders instead to continue their services online or in smaller groups to lessen the risks.

 

Spell had previously confirmed he was facing misdemeanor charges. He said when reached by phone earlier that he was read his rights and fingerprinted — but the summons wasn't deterring him. He said he would continue to defy the ban.

 

“We’re still here and still assembling and having church,” Spell said. Asked why he was defying the governor’s orders, he said, “Because the Lord told us to.”

 

Asked whether he was concerned about the pandemic, Spell said: "I'm no more concerned than I would be going to Walmart or Home Depot.”

 

Moore said earlier that additional charges could be issued if Spell continued to disobey Edwards’ ban on gatherings. He said the pastor wasn't booked into jail earlier because parish officials are trying to lessen the jail population amid the risks of the highly contagious virus.

 

Earlier, Central Assistant Police Chief Darren Sibley had said officers had no plans to try to stop Tuesday night's prayer service. But he said they would "document everything and forward everything to the district attorney."

 

“He is doing this for publicity," Sibley said of Spell. "He is putting the citizens of the community at risk. And he is putting the people in his congregation at risk.”

 

Edwards has issued a “stay at home” order that he said he will extend through the end of April to combat the spread of the COVID-19 disease caused by the coronavirus, which is threatening to overwhelm hospitals with patients.

 

For most people, the coronavirus causes mild or moderate symptoms, such as fever and cough. But for others, especially older adults and people with existing health problems, the virus can cause severe symptoms like pneumonia and be fatal.

 

Edwards said Tuesday that law enforcement authorities had been “extremely patient” with Spell and had “done everything that they could” to get him to comply with the governor's order before issuing the summons.

 

“I'm going to appeal to them one more time: Please stop what you're doing,” Edwards said. “The overwhelming majority of our faith leaders have found other ways to engage with their parishioners."

 

 

[Leia]

41 minutes ago, Indy said:

 

Jeste. Ima i drugde sličnih morona, ali ih bogme apse.

 

To moze negde gde religijske zajednice nisu iznad  zakona i gde im se ne titra do besmisla da bi se skupljali jeftini politicki poeni.

[harper]

2 minutes ago, chandra said:

 

Mislio sam na licemerje novo-vernika. U raspravama redovno dodjem s njima do "A jeste li vi zapravo procitali Bibliju?" Pa se ispostavi da ogromna vecina njih nije procitala vise od par strana. Ovo sto kod nas upraznjavaju nije cak ni hriscanstvo, ni pravoslavlje, vec nekakav paganski melanz svega i svacega umotan pod ambalazu svetoslavlja, gde su Zeveti zamenjeni poslanicama i ostalim dnevno politickim spisima. Miodrag Popovic u "Vidovdan i casni krst" se prilicno detaljno time bavio.

 

Naravno. Pa, vecina i jeste verujuca da ne bi morala da misli i cita, to im je vazan motiv pored onog osnovnog - straha od smrti. To uopste nisu religiozni ljudi, pitanje je koliko su uopste vernici, ne samo da se ne pridrzavaju svih crkvenih rituala vec se najcesce ne pridrzavaju osnovnih etickih normi propisanih hriscanstvom. Otuda taj "paradoks" da vrlo cesto ljudi koji sebe predstavljaju vernicima stanu na pocetak reda kad treba ubiti, opljackati, slagati, proganjati slabe i nemocne i slicno.

 

Hriscanska teologija je vazan, sadrzajan, bogat i kompleksan deo nase civilizacijske, kulturne, filozofske, pa cak i naucne tradicije. Istinski religiozni ljudi bi ne samo morali da citaju kanonske tekstove, koji su sami po sebi izuzetno bogatstvo, vec i tekstove prognanih hriscanskih mislioca poput Origena Velikog, kao i tekstove Dekarta, Njutna, Berklija, Bejkona, Mora, Erazma i slicnih imena koja se najcesce ne povezuju direktno sa crkvom. Ko ce to da cita? Vecina ljudi koji sebe smatraju religioznim nikada nije ni cula za mnoga imena sa ove liste. Zato je jako bitno ono sto se ne desava cesto, da poruka crkve bude zaista hriscanska, u punoj meri njenog teoloskog bogatstva, a ne sitnosopstvenicka, pseudopoliticka, autoritarna, sebicna popovska kratez koja se uporno trudi da zaobidje najplemenitije elemente Hristove poruke jer bi najradije da tih elemenata nema. Ne mogu njima da se okoriste.

 

Naravno, ne govorim o kompletnoj crkvi i svim svestenicima, ima tu predivnog sveta, ali nije slucajno to sto su takvi uvek u debeloj manjini na samom vrhu organizacione piramide SPC.

[vememah]

Quote

 

Vladika banatski: Pričest najbolji lek, ne slušajte bludnike

Autor: Ana Lalić
01. Apr. 202007:20 > 08:03

Vladika banatski Nikanor juče je održao propoved u kojoj je otvoreno pozvao vernike da prekrše sve mere Vlade Srbije, jer je "sveta pričest najbolji lek", a "crkva najbolja bolnica" i da im slobodu kretanja jedino bog može zabraniti. On je vernike savetovao da zakone poštuju samo u onoj meri koliko je to "saglasno sa bogom i sa crkvenim propisima i sa Sveti pismom" , a da je svako ko ih drugačije savetuje "bludnik i bezbožnik".

“Hram je najbolja i najizlečivija bolnica i onaj koji vas savetuje, pa makar bio i srpski patrijarh ili vladika da može biti samo pet ljudi u hramu, taj ili nema vere ili služi neku drugu službu. Gospod Hrist je najbolji lekar i on daje najbolje lekove, kroz svetu tajnu pričešća, to je najbolji lek!”, poručio je Nikanor svega dan nakon što je od zaraze virusom COVID 19 na KBC preminuo njegov kolega sveštenik, valjevski episkop Milutin. Nikanor je objasnio vernicima da je razlog pojave korona virusa greh, ali da oni nemaju čega da se plaše.

“Mi smo pravoslavni hrišćani, nemamo razloga da se plašimo, osim Boga, nikoga. Ako Bog dopusti da nas nema, neće nas ni biti. Živimo normalno, dolazite u hram, pričešćujte se” pozvao je vladika vernike, čime ih je praktično pozvao i da  krše vladine mere.

“Ko su oni koji nas uče šta treba da radimo da radimo? Čime se bave? To su najveći bezbožnici, najveći bludnici, najveći materijalisti. Njih se treba plašiti! Napadaju na crkvu, a njima 3.000 ljudi spava zajedno. I ovi što penzionerima nose hranu, u magacinu njih 400, 500 pakuje i nose one paketiće. Šta je to? Tu neće zapasti (virus), a hoće u hram?”, vikao je vladika u propovedi, aludirajući na epidemiologe i državne čelnike.

“Ugrožava mi slobodu, ugrožava mi kretanje. Što se mene tiče sloboda je ona koju Bog daje, a moj blagoslov je da dolazimo u crkvu, da se pričešćujemo i vršimo svoje obaveze kao pravi hrišćani. Okej? “, završio je Nikanor propoved. Inače, snimak cele propovedi je postavljen na Jutjub kanalu , ali bez informacija u kojoj crkvi je održana i vešto pazeći da se ne snimi broj prisutnih vernika na istoj. Očigledno, o riziku da bude pravno gonjen vodio je računa i sam vladika Nikanor. Mada je u svom govoru višestruko pozvao i blagosiljao kršenje mera, pravno formalno gledano, nije prekršio zakon.

“Zakon Republike Srbije kaže da se ne može podstrekivati neodređen broj ljudi, što je ovde slučaj. Međutim, svakako je strašno to što priča i na koji način priča” kaže za Nova.rs advokat Veljko Milić. Vladika banatski Nikanor je inače 2016. godine osuđen zbog mobinga nekadašnjeg sveštenika Tomislava Živanovića kog je, po presudi, bez povoda razrešio čina protojereja i protonamesnika, nakon čega mu je bila oduzeta i parohija.

 

 

 

 

https://nova.rs/drustvo/vladika-banatski-pricest-najbolji-lek-ne-slusajte-bludnike/

Edited April 1, 2020 by vememah

[Anonymous]

11 minutes ago, napadaj said:

 

Ima idiota na sve strane.

 

https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/Louisiana-pastor-says-he-ll-keep-violating-15169615.php

 

Treba VPN, pa evo paste celog teksta:

 

Churchgoers flock to hear Louisiana pastor despite virus ban

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

CENTRAL, La. (AP) — Buses and cars filled a Louisiana church parking lot for another service Tuesday evening as worshippers flocked to hear a Louisiana pastor who is facing misdemeanor charges for holding services despite a ban on gatherings amid the coronavirus pandemic.

 

A few protesters turned out, too, including a man shouting through a bullhorn against those gathering at the Life Tabernacle Church in the city of Central, where pastor Tony Spell has been holding services. Another demonstrator held up a sign reading: “God don't like stupid."

 

Afterward, people began leaving the church, some chatting outside the front doors, and many appearing to not be adhering to social distancing recommendations to remain at least six feet (2 meters) apart. Hugs and handshakes were shared freely as people said their goodbyes and departed.

 

Hours earlier on Tuesday, Spell was issued a summons for holding services previously at the church in violation of the governor's order banning gatherings.

 

“Come out, Tony. Come tell us why you’re endangering people’s lives," the man with the bullhorn shouted Tuesday evening, directing his words at the pastor.

Flanked by some of his congregation, including children and older people, Spell emerged from the church later Tuesday night and said he is going to keep his church doors open. He said he doesn’t consider keeping his doors open any different than keeping the doors of Walmart open. Spell also compared going to church to going to the hospital, but for spiritual healing.

 

“We are needy people. Our souls are lost,” he said. “We need help, and the church is the salvation center of the soul, the sanctuary where we come together and meet.”

 

Around Louisiana, more than 5,200 people have confirmed virus infections, and 239 state residents have died, according to the Louisiana health department.

 

The order from Gov. John Bel Edwards prohibits gatherings of more than 10 people, said East Baton Rouge Parish District Attorney Hillar Moore. Each violation carries a maximum penalty of six months in jail and a $500 fine, Moore said.

 

“The whole situation just puts everyone at risk,” Moore said. “We ask everyone to abide by the governor's order.”

 

The governor has urged church leaders instead to continue their services online or in smaller groups to lessen the risks.

 

Spell had previously confirmed he was facing misdemeanor charges. He said when reached by phone earlier that he was read his rights and fingerprinted — but the summons wasn't deterring him. He said he would continue to defy the ban.

 

“We’re still here and still assembling and having church,” Spell said. Asked why he was defying the governor’s orders, he said, “Because the Lord told us to.”

 

Asked whether he was concerned about the pandemic, Spell said: "I'm no more concerned than I would be going to Walmart or Home Depot.”

 

Moore said earlier that additional charges could be issued if Spell continued to disobey Edwards’ ban on gatherings. He said the pastor wasn't booked into jail earlier because parish officials are trying to lessen the jail population amid the risks of the highly contagious virus.

 

Earlier, Central Assistant Police Chief Darren Sibley had said officers had no plans to try to stop Tuesday night's prayer service. But he said they would "document everything and forward everything to the district attorney."

 

“He is doing this for publicity," Sibley said of Spell. "He is putting the citizens of the community at risk. And he is putting the people in his congregation at risk.”

 

Edwards has issued a “stay at home” order that he said he will extend through the end of April to combat the spread of the COVID-19 disease caused by the coronavirus, which is threatening to overwhelm hospitals with patients.

 

For most people, the coronavirus causes mild or moderate symptoms, such as fever and cough. But for others, especially older adults and people with existing health problems, the virus can cause severe symptoms like pneumonia and be fatal.

 

Edwards said Tuesday that law enforcement authorities had been “extremely patient” with Spell and had “done everything that they could” to get him to comply with the governor's order before issuing the summons.

 

“I'm going to appeal to them one more time: Please stop what you're doing,” Edwards said. “The overwhelming majority of our faith leaders have found other ways to engage with their parishioners."

 

 

 

Quote

Another demonstrator held up a sign reading: “God don't like stupid."

 

 

[Tsai]

27 minutes ago, vememah said:

https://nova.rs/drustvo/vladika-banatski-pricest-najbolji-lek-ne-slusajte-bludnike/

. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Tsai

[Anonymous]

Profesor: Policija nezakonito upadala u crkve, šikanira vernike i sveštenike

 

 

[Meazza]

20 hours ago, chandra said:

Ovo sto kod nas upraznjavaju nije cak ni hriscanstvo, ni pravoslavlje, vec nekakav paganski melanz svega i svacega umotan pod ambalazu svetoslavlja, 

 

Da. S tim sto je kudikamo bolji taj paganski melanz od onih koji znaju Bibliju naizust. Nas problem nije to sto ljudi ne citaju dovoljno bibliju i sto skoro niko ne ide u crkvu, naprotiv. Problem je sto nam je crkva korumpirana do koske i sto je jedan od pipaka hobotnice.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Meazza

[Leia]

6 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

Profesor: Policija nezakonito upadala u crkve, šikanira vernike i sveštenike

 

 

“Policija u taj prostor može da uđe samo na poziv verske zajednice a tek izuzetno bez poziva, ako je u toku izvršenje nekog teškog krivičnog dela"

 

Zar ovo organizovanje okupljanja u jeku epidemije ne potpada pod ugrozavanje javne bezbednosti?

[Leia]

2 minutes ago, Meazza said:

 

Da. S tim sto je kudikamo bolji taj paganski melanz od onih koji znaju Bibliju naizust. Nas problem nije to sto ljudi ne citaju dovoljno bibliju i sto skoro niko ne ide u crkvu, naprotiv. Problem je sto nam je crkva korumpirana do koske i sto je jedan od pipaka hobotnice.

Crkva bi u svakom modernom i sekularnom drustvu trebala da bude skrajnuta na marginu i da se ne pita ni za sta. 
Koga zanima da se bavi drevnim spisima - put pod noge pa u biblioteku, a sirokim narodnim masama bi intelektualne elite trebale ponuditi alternativne sadrzaje™ i skrenuti paznju sa problematike da li ovo ili ono da jedem za poooost i sta se valja ili ne valja na crveno slovo.
Ali posto elite zanima iskljucivo status i uhlebljenje sigurno se nece otvoreno zamerati ni vlasti ni ovoj teroristickoj organizaciji koja je fakticki drzava u drzavi.

[harper]

59 minutes ago, Meazza said:

 

Da. S tim sto je kudikamo bolji taj paganski melanz od onih koji znaju Bibliju naizust. Nas problem nije to sto ljudi ne citaju dovoljno bibliju i sto skoro niko ne ide u crkvu, naprotiv. Problem je sto nam je crkva korumpirana do koske i sto je jedan od pipaka hobotnice.

 

Nas problem je sto ljudi ne citaju nista, bili vernici ili ne. Kao i sve druge organizacije, crkvu cine ljudi. Kakvi su oni takva je i crkva.

 

Takodje, oni koji citaju i razumeju kanonske tekstove (ne Bibliju, tamo uglavnom i nema tih raznih uredbi o kojima svi trtljaju) a smatraju sebe vernicima trebalo bi da znaju da korupcija i razlozi za nju cine dva od ukupno sedam smrtnih grehova. Pa popovima ako se isplati neka izvole.

[Meazza]

Znas kako, po mom zivotnom iskustvu, oni koji citaju i ozbiljno shvataju bibliju (pricam o prosecnim ljudima, ne o intelektualcima) veruju na primer i u Nojevu barku. Imam dva takva poznanika, jedan je zavrsio i fakultet. Tako da...

 

Ja imam vrlo jednostavan stav, gde god da su pare tu duhovnost ne postoji. 

[harper]

36 minutes ago, Meazza said:

Znas kako, po mom zivotnom iskustvu, oni koji citaju i ozbiljno shvataju bibliju (pricam o prosecnim ljudima, ne o intelektualcima) veruju na primer i u Nojevu barku. Imam dva takva poznanika, jedan je zavrsio i fakultet. Tako da...

 

Ja imam vrlo jednostavan stav, gde god da su pare tu duhovnost ne postoji. 

 

Biblija je mahom alegorijski tekst, ko je uzima zdravo za gotovo do mere da veruje u Nojevu barku po default-u ne shvata Bibliju ozbiljno jer ne moze, ne razume joj karakter. Postoji ta stara mantra o opasnosti od ljudi koji su citali samo jednu knjigu i ona je u nacelu tacna, za takve ljude svaki problem je ekser i resavaju ga cekicem, ali postoji u toj mantri i kvaka da ljudi koji su procitali jednu knjigu zapravo nisu procitali nijednu. Prosto je, citanje jedne knjige ne daje kontekst citanja. Jednu knjigu koju si procitao ne mozes da stavis u kontekst i izmeris jer nemas na osnovu cega, zato ne mozes ni da je razumes. Bojim se da taj tvoj poznanik koji je zavrsio fakultet a veruje u Nojevu barku ima ozbiljnijih problema od toga da je procitao samo jednu knjigu (ako je zavrsio fakultet morao ih je procitati vise od jedne).

 

Ja znam nebrojen broj ljudi, sto licno sto putem citanja njihovih knjiga, koji su ozbiljno shvatali Bibliju a bili i jesu prvorazredni intelektualci od neopisive vaznosti za filozofiju, nauku, umetnost i uopste civilizacijski progres, tako da su moja zivotna iskustva veoma razlicita od tvojih.