BrExit?

[Roger Sanchez]

Glasali su i tako je. Cela kampanja, na obe strane je bila fear mongering, ali mogu da razumem frustracije.

 

Primer je recimo EU uredba da banane ne smeju biti "previše" krive, kao ni krastavci. Totalno ludilo birokratije.

 

Sa druge strane, prednost EU su bili razni fondovi, koji će nestati ubrzo.

 

Ovo je ipak šansa za obe strane, da se spasu. Ne verujem u neke radikalne promene, previše je tu interesa umuljano, bar ne promene za ove sadašnje dilove. Budući će ipak biti malo drugačiji, ali kapital će uvek pobediti.

To ne postoji. Propisano je međutim da ti je svaki dućan dužan uz cijenu prehrambenog artikla istaknuti i cijenu po mjernoj jedinici.

[reginald]

Meni je dobar ovaj clanak Johna Harrisa http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

 

Inace, jebes City i jebes housing.

[MancMellow]

Kačio Rođa. U pravu je, ali ne sasvim. Tj, najveća podela je ipak generacijska. Konkretno u, jel, Manchesteru tj okolini, tačno je, workerski sever grada tj Greater Manchestera je glasao za Leave, ali i dole ka Cheshiru su isto glasali za Leave, kao i u samom Cheshiru koji je sve samo ne beda. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by MancMellow

[Anduril]

Meni je dobar ovaj clanak Johna Harrisa http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

 

Inace, jebes City i jebes housing.

 

Naravno, to je lako reci ali tu ima jedan problem - 60% svih para u opticaju u UK je u hausingu. Ako to pocne da pada zbog povecanja kamata i recimo pada funte u odnosu na dolar (krediti u svajcarcima scenario) i evro, ne postoji nista sto ce zaustiviti totalni nestanak srednje klase u UK.

Dakle, na kraju ovo nece pogoditi toliko City bankere koji ce zapaliti nego ostatak srednje klase/prekarijata koja je do sada placala i benefite ovim drugima - penzionerima i siromasnima. 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Anduril

[Prospero]

Postoje razlicit modeli da se uredi federacija a koji ne podrazumevaju osiguranje depozita i preuzimanje dugova.

Mislim tu pre svega na svajcarski model gde je federalizacija jaka spoljnoj politici/odbrani a slaba u domenu budzeta, dugova, itd.

 

Svakako, samo EU nije Švajcarska nego skup zemalja sa još uvek veoma razuđenim socio-ekonomskim položajima i, gledano Uniju celu, veoma velikim socijalnim razlikama. Neka konvergencija EZ koja je vidljiva običnom puku (a ne kroz složene mehanizme koji se biraču ne mogu objasniti) će morati da postoji ako se želi očuvanje same Unije.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Prospero

[koksy]

dakle, ne mogu da verujem kolko kukate i kolko ste besni u meri da bi maltene krenuli da tamanite britanske debele jeboimpasmater penzionere i tupave seljake sa čudnim akcentom.

 

šta fali malo uzbuđenja, ubi ova EU-žabokrečina.

[gospa buba]

to isto je moglo da se kaze i za exyu, shta je malo klanja da se razmrdaju uchmali proleteri smoreni zabokrechinom. i posle samo kuknjava.

 

mnogo mi se svidja taj kornovl, kornvol zasluzuje vishe i bolje -_-

[MancMellow]

Philip Stevens u Financial Timesu. Odlican tekst ako mene pitate

 

 

 

How a cautious nation came to tear down the political temple

Britain will be poorer at home and diminished internationally. It marks a retreat from the world

 

Financial capitalism survived the 2008 global crash. Liberal democracy has not fared so well. There is a connection. Political elites are under pressure everywhere in the west. Donald Trump is a candidate for US president. Marine Le Pen is bidding for France’s Élysée Palace. But who would have thought pragmatic, moderate, incrementalist Britain would tear down the political temple? This week’s referendum result was a revolt against the status quo with consequences, national and international, as profound as anything seen in postwar Europe.

 

You can cite perhaps half-a-dozen explanations as to why the once-phlegmatic British voted against their own economic interests by quitting the EU. British exceptionalism, migration, a scandalously duplicitous Leave campaign, stagnant incomes and post-crash austerity are all on the list. But the thread through it all was deep disgruntlement with a political and economic system that is seen as rigged against the hard-working classes.

 

 

It was always clear that the referendum would fracture the Conservative party. But it was won by the “outs” only because millions of erstwhile Labour supporters deserted their own leftist leadership for the anti-immigrant xenophobia peddled by the United Kingdom Independence party. For decades politics was a game of turn and turnabout among the long established parties of centre-right and centre-left. Now, Conservatives and Labour in Britain, and Christian and Social Democrats on the European continent have lost control.

 

Brexit will leave Britain poorer at home and diminished on the international stage. It marks a retreat from the world. The leaving of one union could lead to the break-up of another if Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, presses ahead with her plan for another independence referendum. A flight of foreign capital and businesses from the UK may tip the economy into recession.

 

The leavers, led by the flamboyantly evasive Boris Johnson, have no plans to cope with any of this. Mr Johnson has not thought beyond an all-consuming ambition to replaceDavid Cameron as prime minister. He has failed to offer a serious prospectus for the simple reason that, beyond some nostalgic nonsense about reconquering the world, he has no idea about what comes next. For what it is worth, the harsh truth is that the British government will spend the next five to 10 years in the costly business of disentangling its affairs from Brussels.

 

Friends and allies will have little sympathy. After surviving the twin crises centred on the euro and migration, Germany’s Angela Merkel and France’s François Hollande will not thank Britain for adding a third. Perfidious Albion has always been an awkward partner, but the Union will be weaker for the departure of such an important state.

 

Nor can Mr Cameron’s successor look to Washington for comfort. US President Barack Obama could not have been more candid that a leave vote would represent self-demotion in the contest for influence in the US capital. The “special relationship” is a description loaded more with symbolism than substance. Brexit will strip it of both. All this as the west is challenged by a revanchist Russia, by chaos and terrorism in the Middle East and uncontrolled migration.

 

Irritated as they are with Britain, these other leaders would do well to study carefully the forces at work in the referendum campaign. If a nation as innately cautious as Britain can tear up in the course of a single day foreign and economic policies that have been crafted over half a century, who can dare rule out an electoral earthquake propelling Mr Trump into the White House or Ms Le Pen into the Élysée?

 

What Americans call the “takeaway” from the referendum can be summarised in one short phrase: globalisation is not working. Big business has become bad political news. Yes, of course one can produce endless statistics showing how open global markets are a stimulus to growth and prosperity. But as true as they are, these are abstract, aggregate figures. They do not reflect the experience of the majority.

For a decade or so the badly skewed distribution of the gains from globalisation and widespread tax-evasion on the part of big business were camouflaged by buoyant economic growth. Since 2008 the unfairnesses have been amplified by austerity: the wealthiest one per cent have been barely touched.

Capitalism needed saving, but in bailing out the financial institutions with taxpayers’ money, governments transferred the stresses from markets to politics. A return to economic growth would relieve some of the pressure. Europe in particular must understand just how politically corrosive slavish devotion to fiscal targets has become. But the politicians also must confront the excesses. If they want to save liberal democracy, they will have to reform capitalism.

 

[Anduril]

Ovo je ono o cemu sam pricao ranije:

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36626553

 

Plus analiza Krisa Patena, nekadasnjeg guvernera HK i Rogofa o problemima sa ovakvom populistickom demokratijom bez checks and balances:

 

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-political-suicide-by-chris-patten-2016-06

 

 

 

One of the horrors that lie ahead will be the growing disappointment of “Leave” supporters as all of these lies are exposed. The voters were told that they would “get their country back.” I do not believe they will like what it turns out to be.

 https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06

Edited June 25, 2016 by Anduril

[Muwan]

Што зна ја, ред и био да и малом човеку понекад дамо могућност да се нешто пита. 

 

To je skroz u redu. U krajnjoj liniji, UK je od prvog dana ulaska u EU u nekom konstantnom "hoću-neću" raspoloženju pa je red da se to kvantifikuje na odgovarajućem referendumu. Problem je samo u tome što oni koji su tražili referendum nemaju nikakav plan da naprave nešto bolje za svoje građane (obične populističke gluperde) dočim su oni koji su prihvatili da raspišu referendum prvenstveno gledali neke svoje političke kombine pa tek onda interes malog čoveka. Zatim su i jedni i drugi vodili svoje kampanje shodno svojim prioritetima i na kraju je mali čovek izglasao ono za šta su i jedni i drugi bili sigurni da se neće desiti i nisu imali nikakav plan za slučaj da se nedajbože desi.

 

Bukvalno čitava elita je išla na to da Remain pobedi sa 51-49 i da onda svako koristi onih 49 za svoju političku agendu (što kod kuće, što u Briselu). Da su bili pošteniji u kampanji i da su se manje oslanjali na skrnave tabloide, možda bi i ishod bio drugačiji.

[yolo]

paki ili indijac ima pravo da tako nesto kaze obzirom da su bili kolonija gb

 

nije bilo za ocekivati da napises ista pametno

Edited June 25, 2016 by yolo

[Zverilla]

Колико капирам већина овде мисли да су поданици Краљице Бабе потптпуни дебили?

 

za vecinu ne znam, al ja mislim da su 51.9% podanika babe potpuni debili kompletni idioti.

[garcia]

meni su svi podanici kreteni, nevezano za politicko opredeljenje

[adam]

ma da, sve mudrac do mudraca

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MewzYp8UJA

[Sludge Factory]

Malo cu mozda u off topic, ali me inspirisao Varufakisov tekst da pitam nesto. Ako postoje, a postoje, brojni ozbiljni (ili makar polu-ozbiljni) ljudi koji tvrde da je austerity politika losa i da se u praksi pokazala kao losa i neuspesna, te prakticno proizvela negativne drustveno-politicke posledice na planeti kojima smo svedoci, da li je moguce da ne postoji niko, ni najmanji deo politicke elite koji je spreman da ozbiljno ponudi biracima nesto drugo i drugacije, neki plan i predlog kako bolje i drugacije u buducnost, pa makar se i to ispostavilo kao pogresno (ili nedovoljno dobro)?