yolo Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 @yolo Čekaj, baš su jevrejski intelektualci kao što su Norman Finkelstein i Gilad Atzmon govorili o upotrebi holokausta u političke i druge svrhe. Zar ta ''upotreba'' nije skrnavljenje istorijske istine i pijeteta prema žrtvama? Nearly half of the British population agreed with one of four antisemitic statements presented to them according to a new poll, which found that one in eight of those surveyed believe that Jewish people use the Holocaust as a means of gaining sympathy.
iDemo Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Nearly half of the British population agreed with one of four antisemitic statements presented to them according to a new poll, which found that one in eight of those surveyed believe that Jewish people use the Holocaust as a means of gaining sympathy. Nego, dok si u kancelariji - je l' imas neki podatak koliki je (bio) uzorak i koliko je isti reprezentativan? :) Sta god da je agreed na kraju. #samopitam
yolo Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 ne znam, to je budjin citat koji recikliram u pokusaju da razjasnim da se ne moze aplicirati zloupotreba holokausta od strane politicara na ceo narod.
iDemo Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 ne znam, to je budjin citat koji recikliram u pokusaju da razjasnim da se ne moze aplicirati zloupotreba holokausta od strane politicara na ceo narod. Nema problema. Jasno.
Lord Protector Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 ne znam, to je budjin citat koji recikliram u pokusaju da razjasnim da se ne moze aplicirati zloupotreba holokausta od strane politicara na ceo narod. naravno da ne može, ali to ne negira da postoje političari koji to rade. Druga stvar, ko sme da donosi zaključke o celom britanskom narodu na osnovu ovako neprecizne ankete? Postaviš četiri pitanja i ekstrapoliraš na celu Britaniju? Koji su motivi toga?
iDemo Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 naravno da ne može, ali to ne negira da postoje političari koji to rade. Druga stvar, ko sme da donosi zaključke o celom britanskom narodu na osnovu ovako neprecizne ankete? Postaviš četiri pitanja i ekstrapoliraš na celu Britaniju? Koji su motivi toga? Moze ko god hoce - na nama ostaje da se zamislimo ili da pustimo da nam neko drugi zamishlja
yolo Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 naravno da ne može, ali to ne negira da postoje političari koji to rade. Druga stvar, ko sme da donosi zaključke o celom britanskom narodu na osnovu ovako neprecizne ankete? Postaviš četiri pitanja i ekstrapoliraš na celu Britaniju? Koji su motivi toga? nekako mi seva za britanski narod u ovoj diskusiji, posto vec ima drugi narod sa neuporedivo vecim istorijskim problemom koji je mnogo gnusnije predstavljen....
Gandalf Posted January 14, 2015 Author Posted January 14, 2015 Pas de liberté pour les ennemis de la liberté. :) http://www.wsj.com/articles/charlie-hebdo-french-comedian-detained-over-online-comments-1421229693 PARIS—French police on Wednesday detained a controversial French stand-up comedianover online comments apparently comparing himself to one of the gunmen in the attacks that stunned France last week and left 17 dead. A post on the Facebook page of Dieudonné M’Bala M’Bala, who goes by the name Dieudonné, said, “I feel like Charlie Coulibaly.” That appears to be a reference both to “Je Suis Charlie”—the slogan of solidarity that has spread in the wake of the attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine—and to Amedy Coulibaly, who was shot dead by police after allegedly killing five people in separate assaults. The post appears to have since been removed from his Facebook page. Dieudonné was arrested early Wednesday on suspicion of condoning acts of terrorism, a spokeswoman for the Paris prosecutor said. A law passed in November last year established punishment of up to seven years in jail and a fine of up to €100,000 ($118,000) for condoning terrorism on the Internet.
Gandalf Posted January 14, 2015 Author Posted January 14, 2015 sloboda govora je kada islamski fundamentalist, koji nije u stanju da razumije nacrtane karikature, dobije prostor i paznju da govori o holokaustu. sloboda govora je kada dopustis covjeku koji mrzi jevreje da govori o njima i da svoju mrznju uvija u tu istu slobodu govora. +1
Lord Protector Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 nekako mi seva za britanski narod u ovoj diskusiji, posto vec ima drugi narod sa neuporedivo vecim istorijskim problemom koji je mnogo gnusnije predstavljen.... na koji narod misliš?
Budja Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 pa naravno da to jeste antisemitizam. kada celoj etnickoj skupini jevreja (jewish people) prisljamcis da koriste holokaust da bi izvukli neku korist. to je anti semitizam par eksalans, klasicna definicija - obelezavanje cele etnicke grupe negativnom predrasudom ciji krajnji ishod negacija ili relativizacija dokazanog istorijskog dogadjaja. Eh, sad, da vidimo sta Manc ima da kaze. Ja mislio da je svaka upotreba holokausta osim njegovog negiranja sasvim dozvoljena, kad ono medjutim... svako pominjanje holokausta u bilo kom negativnom kontekstu je po tebi negacija istog. Nego, Crnogorci su lenji. Italijani su kukavice. Bosanci su glupi. Negativna predrasuda, ergo, daj da stavimo u zakon anticrnogorizam, antibosanizam i antiitalijanizam. Uklapa se u definiciju. Jos malo free speech na francuski nacin. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30811401 Paris attacks: Dieudonne held as France tackles hate speech Controversial French comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala has been detained by police for a Facebook comment appearing to back Paris gunman Amedy Coulibaly. His is one of dozens of cases opened by authorities in a crackdown on condoning or threatening terrorism. Justice Minister Christiane Taubira said words of hatred and contempt had to be fought with the "utmost vigour". Dieudonne already has convictions for inciting anti-Semitism and the courts banned several one-man shows last year. The justice ministry said on Wednesday that 54 cases had been opened since the murders of 17 people in Paris last week. Of those, 37 cases involved condoning terrorism and 12 were for threatening to carry out terrorist acts. Some fast-track custodial sentences have already been handed down under anti-terror legislation passed last November A man of 22 was jailed on Tuesday for a year for posting a video mocking one of the three murdered policemen A drunk driver was given four years in prison after making threats against the police who arrested him Three men in their twenties were jailed in Toulouse for condoning terrorism A man of 20 was jailed in Orleans for shouting "long live the Kalash[(nikov]" at police in a shopping centre
MancMellow Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Eh, sad, da vidimo sta Manc ima da kaze. Ja mislio da je svaka upotreba holokausta osim njegovog negiranja sasvim dozvoljena, kad ono medjutim... svako pominjanje holokausta u bilo kom negativnom kontekstu je po tebi negacija istog. Nego, Crnogorci su lenji. Italijani su kukavice. Bosanci su glupi. Negativna predrasuda, ergo, daj da stavimo u zakon anticrnogorizam, antibosanizam i antiitalijanizam. Uklapa se u definiciju. Srbi su skrtice. To za nesrpske bosance, bar mi je tako receno. S druge strane za Rumune smo glupi. Kao sto su oni za nas ruzni. Ali to sve zajedno nema nikakve veze sa onim o cemu smo pricali.
Budja Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Srbi su skrtice. To za nesrpske bosance, bar mi je tako receno. S druge strane za Rumune smo glupi. Kao sto su oni za nas ruzni. Ali to sve zajedno nema nikakve veze sa onim o cemu smo pricali. Kako nema? Vidi sta pise Yolo, a i sam sam pisao o tome: Gde je granica izmedju negacije holokausta i misljenja da se holokaust zloupotrebljava? Ako su Crnogorci lenji i to je dopusteno, zasto isti poll (vidi gore) misljenje da Jevreji vise vole pare smatra antisemitizmom koji je no-no? Gde je tu holokaust? Yolo smatra da nije dopusteno obelezavanje cele etnicke grupe negativnom predrasudama (vrlo siroko), Anduril uzima liberalnu definiciju da se slobodom govora ne moze ugrozavati sloboda drugoga (uza definicija, gde je jasno da onaj ruandski radio potpada pod definiciju), oficijelna zapadna mainstream linija je "hate speech" ali to je opet uzasno siroko i nije jasno zasto ovaj komicar pod tu definiciju potpada a CH ne.
Lord Protector Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 Ali to sve zajedno nema nikakve veze sa onim o cemu smo pricali. ?
MancMellow Posted January 14, 2015 Posted January 14, 2015 zasto isti poll (vidi gore) misljenje da Jevreji vise vole pare smatra antisemitizmom koji je no-no? Gde je tu holokaust? Nigde. I tu se za mene prica zavrsava.
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