Толстый и тонкий

[3opge]

4 hours ago, vememah said:

 

Originalna objava medija koji je prvi izvestio o ovome zato što mu je sam Ugljev javio o čemu je reč. On je u zadovoljavajućem zdravstvenom stanju, udario ga je 70-godišnji građanin istog mesta i ne misli da je napad bio planiran.

 

• https://thebell.io/odnogo-iz-razrabotchikov-novichka-vladimira-ugleva-sbila-mashina/

neka je hvala nebesima da ovoga puta kremaljski beelzebub i samopregorni trovac dece (mozda) nije umesan.

 

[Budja]

8 hours ago, Anduril said:

Jeste, prerano zakljucivanje u ovom slucaju.

 

Dailymail, zaboga.

[ObiW]

18 hours ago, pbg12345 said:

krele, nacrtao sam ti u postu sta nisam napisao, a ti si svoj prethodni post napisao tako da deluje da ja to jesam napisao (posto ne vidim drugi razlog da nabrojis nekakve sulude stavove vezane za sfrj i 90, a onda podcrtas da sam ja taj koji pise o toj teritoriji i vremenu)

 

Ja sam prvi deo recenice - o skretanju svake teme na raspad Jugoslavije, Kosovo i zasto nas mrze - napisao kao odgovor na konstataciju urkomazanja kako Rodzer uvek pise isto (o Srbiji). A on uvek pise isto jer se svaka tema, pa i ova o Rusiji, uvek svede na devedesete i Srbiju.

 

Tebe sam konkretno citirao sta si rekao i nisam ti nista ucitao. Razlog zasto sam te spomenuo je taj sto si se javio odmah posle konstatacije urkomazanja sa jos jednim skretanjem teme na mirni period od 95-98 u bivsoj Jugoslaviji, sto opet nema nikakve veze sa Rusijom. Al dzabe, mogu ja da boldujem sta sam rekao do sutra, tupson12345 je resio da bude zrtva...  

 

 

[urkozamanje]

A jbt da toliko ne znate utrovacki, jebo vas bre urkomazanje

 

 

Elem, znaci rodja se samo nadoveze ponekad, kad se bas zadesi da je u smeni? Nije to sto je bazdaren da se obavezno javi kad god se ukaze prilika da na tu temu prolije cega god da je pun evo vec godinama unazad?  

 

Mislim ok, al smara to bas. Pomislio bi covek da je vreme za neke nove teme i da moze ponekad i da se preskoci to nadgornjavanje.

 

p.s. 

Da ne pricamo o tome da iz pozicije jednog brata rvata najcesce nema prava da deli lekcije. 

[laser lotus]

17 hours ago, MancMellow said:

Divote wikipedije

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

On 16 April 2008 Russian president Vladimir Putin authorised official ties between the Russian government and the separatists in Abkhazia and South Ossetia by signing a decree. The legal acts issued by the separatists and the entities registered under them were also recognised.^[92] After a United Nations Security Council meeting on 23 April convened at Georgia's request, the United States, the United Kingdom, France and Germany issued a statement saying: "We call on the Russian Federation to revoke or not to implement its decision." However, this was labelled a "tall order" by Vitaly Churkin, Russia's Ambassador to the UN.^[93]

A Russian jet shot down a Georgian reconnaissance drone flying over Abkhazia on 20 April. However, Russia denied responsibility for the incident and Abkhazia claimed that the drone was shot down by an "L-39 aircraft of the Abkhaz Air Force".^[94] An allegation of an attack by a NATO MiG-29 was made by the Russia' Ambassador to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin. NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer commented that "he'd eat his tie if it turned out that a NATO MiG-29 had magically appeared in Abkhazia and shot down a Georgian drone."^[95] On 26 May, a United Nations Observer Mission in Georgia(UNOMIG) investigation concluded that the jet belonged to the Russian Air Force; it was either a MiG-29 "Fulcrum" or a Su-27 "Flanker".^[96]

In late April, the Russian government said that Georgia was amassing 1,500 soldiers and police in the upper Kodori Gorge area and was planning to "invade" Abkhazia,^[97]and that Russia would retaliate against Georgian attack and had boosted its forces in the separatist regions.^[98] Any buildup in the Kodori Gorge or near the Abkhaz border by either party was not confirmed by the UNOMIG.^[99][100]

Russia increased the number of its peacekeepers in Abkhazia to 2,542 in early May, but its troop levels remained under the limit of 3,000 imposed by a 1994 decision of CIS heads of state.^[101] Georgia showed video footage captured by a drone to the BBC allegedly proving that Russian troops used heavy hardware in Abkhazia and were a fighting force, rather than peacekeepers; Russia denied the accusations.^[102] On 15 May, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a resolution calling for the return of all refugees and internally displaced persons (IDPs) to Abkhazia.^[103] Russia voted against the Georgian-sponsored resolution. The Russian Foreign Ministry said that the resolution was "a counterproductive move".^[104]

Russia sent railway troops on 31 May to repair a rail line in Abkhazia. According to the Russian defence ministry, railway troops were unarmed. Georgia stated that the move was an "aggressive" act.^[105] The European Parliament adopted a resolution on 5 June which condemned the deployment of Russian forces to Abkhazia. The resolution stated that the peacekeeping structure must be changed because Russia was no longer an unbiased player.^[106] Russian railway troops began withdrawal from Abkhazia on 30 July after attending the opening ceremony of the railway line.^[107] The repaired railway was used to transport military equipment by at least a part of the 9,000 Russian soldiers who entered Georgia from Abkhazia during the war.^[108]

In late June, Russian military expert Pavel Felgenhauer predicted that Vladimir Putin would start a war against Georgia in Abkhazia and South Ossetia supposedly in August.^[99][109] The Kavkaz Center reported in early July that Chechen separatists had intelligence data that Russia was preparing a military operation against Georgia in August–September 2008 which mainly aimed to expel Georgian forces from the Kodori Gorge; this would be followed by the expulsion of Georgian units and population from South Ossetia.^[110]

In early July, the security situation in South Ossetia aggravated, when a South Ossetian separatist militia official was killed by explosions on 3 July and several hours later an unsuccessful assassination attempt on Dmitry Sanakoyev, the leader of the Georgian-backed Ossetian government, injured three policemen.^[111] On 7 July, four Georgian soldiers were captured by South Ossetian separatists. The next day, the Georgian president ordered police to get ready to liberate the soldiers.^[112] Four Russian Air Force jets flew over South Ossetia on 8 July.^[113] A scheduled visit of Condoleezza Rice, the US Secretary of State, to Georgia on the next day nearly coincided with the timing of the flight.^[114] Georgia recalled its ambassador to Russia after Russia admitted its planes had flown in Georgia's airspace to "let hot heads in Tbilisi cool down".^[113] This was the first time in a decade that Russia had admitted to an overflight of Georgian territory.^[115]
 

 

Da, uvijek su mi bili interesantni ti alternativni pogledi na istoriju poput The Man in the High Castle ili ovaj članak sa Wikipedije.

[MancMellow]

49 minutes ago, laser lotus said:

Da, uvijek su mi bili interesantni ti alternativni pogledi na istoriju poput The Man in the High Castle ili ovaj članak sa Wikipedije.

Poenta je da je i onaj prvi sa wkipedije. Ili joj veruješ ili ne 

Edited April 27, 2018 by MancMellow

[laser lotus]

Poenta je da se Sakašili zajebao u procjeni ("ma neće valjda" tehnika planiranja), dobio po nosu, pa je zatim (sa popriličnim zakašnjenjem) uslijedilo kreativno tumačenje događaja koji su doveli do toga. LM, to što si citirao je

[MancMellow]

Just now, laser lotus said:

Poenta je da se Sakašili zajebao u procjeni ("ma neće valjda" tehnika planiranja), dobio po nosu, pa je zatim (sa popriličnim zakašnjenjem) uslijedilo kreativno tumačenje događaja koji su doveli do toga. LM, to što si citirao je

Koliko god wikipedija bila nepouzdana, pouzdanija je od napamet naucenih parola. 

[laser lotus]

Mali problem je što se sve to relativno nedavno desilo tako da ima nas koji se dobro sjećaju svega i bez Wikipedije. Da ne govorim o potiskivanju sjećanja iz ideoloških raloga.

[MancMellow]

1 minute ago, laser lotus said:

Mali problem je što se sve to relativno nedavno desilo tako da ima nas koji se dobro sjećaju svega i bez Wikipedije. Da ne govorim o potiskivanju sjećanja iz ideoloških raloga.

Sta bio si sa Sakasvilijem i u Kremlju tada kad se sve to odlucivalo i donosile odluke? I na frontu posle ko je prvi pucao i tako to?

Edited April 27, 2018 by MancMellow

[laser lotus]

[Lord Protector]

57 minutes ago, MancMellow said:

Sta bio si sa Sakasvilijem i u Kremlju tada kad se sve to odlucivalo i donosile odluke? I na frontu posle ko je prvi pucao i tako to?

 

Manc, zaključci EU komisije iz 2009. su nedvosmisleni ko je počeo rat i kolika je odgovornost strana u sukobu:

 

Quote

Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report

Timothy Heritage

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - An independent report blamed Georgia on Wednesday for starting last year’s five-day war with Russia, but said Moscow’s military response went beyond reasonable limits and violated international law.

The report commissioned by the European Union said both sides had broken international humanitarian laws and found evidence of ethnic cleansing against ethnic Georgians during Russia’s intervention in the rebel province of South Ossetia.

Each side said the report backed up its interpretation of the war. But the findings were particularly critical of U.S. ally Georgia’s conduct under President Mikheil Saakashvili and are likely to further damage his political standing.

They could also deepen Western concerns about his leadership and the stability of the former Soviet republic which have set back its hopes of joining NATO and the EU and shaken confidence in oil and gas routes running through the South Caucasus.

“In the Mission’s view, it was Georgia which triggered off the war when it attacked Tskhinvali (in South Ossetia) with heavy artillery on the night of 7 to 8 August 2008,” said Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, who led the investigation.

The report said the war followed tensions and provocations by Russia, but Tagliavini said: “None of the explanations given by the Georgian authorities in order to provide some form of legal justification for the attack lend it a valid explanation.”

Saakashvili had said Georgia was responding to an invasion by Russian forces when it attacked breakaway South Ossetia, but the report found no evidence of this.

 

It said Russia’s counter-strike was initially legal, but its military response violated international law when Russian forces pushed into Georgia proper.

“Although it should be admitted that it is not easy to decide where the line must be drawn, it seems, however, that much of the Russian military action went far beyond the reasonable limits of defense,” the report said.

 

 

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-report-on-russia-georgia-war-eu-investigators-debunk-saakashvili-s-lies-a-652512.html

 

 

Quote

 

New Report on Russia-Georgia War

EU Investigators Debunk Saakashvili's Lies

The EU fact-finding mission on the Russia-Georgia war has published its findings in a much-anticipated report. The authors blame Georgia for the war but also assign partial responsibility to Russia. Both countries have reacted angrily to the findings, with the Russia ambassador to NATO saying the report is only "pseudo-balanced."

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by slow

[Lord Protector]

Pogledajte datum, ko je gruzijske snage obučavao i zbog čega dva meseca pre sukoba:

 

Quote

 

JULY 15, 2008 /

U.S. troops start training exercise in Georgia

Reuters Staff

VAZIANI, Georgia (Reuters) - One thousand U.S. troops began a military training exercise in Georgia on Tuesday against a backdrop of growing friction between Georgia and neighboring Russia.

Officials said the exercise, called “Immediate Response 2008”, had been planned for months and was not linked to a stand-off between Moscow and Tbilisi over two Russian-backed separatists regions of Georgia.

 

 

 

[MancMellow]

Pa nisam rekao da je Sakasvili nevin, on je budaletina bez ikakve sumnje, to je bar danas jasno. Rat je poceo on, kao rat. Cela kriza ima vise uglova. Druga stvar, ono sto sam ja inicijalno rekao je da Rusiju niko nije napao, ali da oni jesu priznali/otcepili/drze u zivotu otcepljene delove drugih zemalja, i to stoji. Rat sa time ne mora da ima veze. rat je jedno, priznanje je drugo.

 

 

[Anduril]

19 hours ago, dillinger said:

 

Pa cela priča sa Kosovom je ista priča o sferama uticaja, poziv Srbiji da se prizove pameti i ne čačka mečku u američkom dvorištu, ne?

A to ni ti ni Manc ni bilo ko onda takođe nećete primeniti na Ukrajinu i doći do jednostavnog zaključka - da nisu čačkali pravu Mečku, danas bi imali Krim, ne?

Dakle ima itekakvih nejasnoća i logičkih rupa i u tim liberaldemokratskim perspektivama, 

 

Krimu nikada nije ukinuta autonomija, Krimljani nisu diskriminisani niti je vojska Ukrajine po Krimu ubijala masovno civile u lovu na teroriste. Da je Kosovo anektirano Albaniji, bez problema sa UN i slicno, i to jos pocetkom devedesetih - e to bi bio Krim. I jos da se useta NATO u Vojvodinu i Sandzak, i to pre svih ratova devedesetih - e to bi bio Donbas. 

A da se NATO ponasa imperijalno, logicno bi bilo da naprave od Srbije Ceceniju i to jos devedesetih.