Egipat - vojska, muslimanska braća, puč

[Gandalf]

A dok se bavio izdajom liberala, izgubio je iz vida drugi, skoro isto tako jaki revolucionarni™ element - salafiste. 1848/49 nije bilo unutrasnje izdaje™.

[Yoda]

Mozemo mi da se fejspalmujemo do prekosutra, samo to nece da olabavi profino natezanje konopca. Da je bio konsekventan, mogao je da povuce paralele o planiranim sirenjima jedne i druge revolucije na region zarad oslobadjanja okolnih naroda od tiranskih rezima. Stvarno ne znam zasto to nije ucinio - ili nije 1848. do kraja cinjenicno iscitao ili je nove mladodemokrate zeleo iz nekog razloga da postedi. Mozda ne smatra da je njihov islamizam orijentisan i ka izvozu™ (khm...), a mozda bi im jednostavno to urusilo sliku u tekstu. Bas kao i momenat da za razliku od levicara iz 1848, ovi novi™ imaju obicaj da iz politicke nacije izvlace nepouzdane verske elemente i tretiraju ih kao cist kolaborantsko-reakcionarni visak. Cika Marks ce da oprosti paralelu sa islamizmom, univerzalne ideje su cudo, ali ovo nikako.A sta te toliko zulja ovo oko salafista? Htedoh da kazem da su MB i salafisti zajedno delali - te pad Mubaraka, te parlamentani, te predsednicki izbori, pa se u jednom trenutku salafisti okrenuse od marksiste™ Mursija. Nekada su svi zajedno cekali na barikadama Kavenjakove kursume...

Edited August 30, 2013 by Yoda

[Gandalf]

A sta te toliko zulja ovo oko salafista? Htedoh da kazem da su MB i salafisti zajedno delali - te pad Mubaraka, te parlamentani, te predsednicki izbori, pa se u jednom trenutku salafisti okrenuse od marksiste™ Mursija.

ne zulja mene nista. no lupas, jer ne pratis.http://www.egyptinde...chances-are-lowThe Salafi Dawah and its political wing, the Nour Party, announced on Sunday their endorsement of moderate Islamist presidential candidate Abdel Moneim Abouel Fotouh, in a move that may hurt the chances of Muslim Brotherhood nominee Mohamed Morsy.At a news conference, Mohamed Nour, a Nour Party leader, revealed that Abouel Fotouh had fiercely defeated his Islamist contenders in three different polls conducted among the Nour Party’s members of Parliament, members of its high board and the Salafi Dawah Shura Council. Edited August 30, 2013 by Gandalf

[Yoda]

Ovako nakostresen, vise se dojmis kao Saruman, ali ajde da se sigramo banalnih igrica oko izbornih krugova u Egiptu...Tvoj link:

The surveyed Salafis chose between Abouel Fotouh, a former leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Morsy, the president of the Freedom and Justice Party and Mohamed Selim al-Awa, an Islamist lawyer.Seventy-four MPs supported Abouel Fotouh, while 30 backed Morsy and only one voted for Awa. On the Nour Party high board in particular, Abouel Fotouh secured eight votes, Morsy three and Awa one. And of the Salafi Dawah preachers, 121 voted for Abouel Fotouh while Morsy and Awa secured the votes of 26 and three members, respectively.“All three belong to the same Islamist project. We have issues with this project but there is no room for that now,” said Abdel Moneim al-Shahat, spokesperson for the Salafi Dawah, in reference to deep-rooted ideological feuds between Salafis and the three candidates over the correct understanding of Sharia.“What counts now is presenting an Islamist candidate who believes in the Islamic frame of reference and has popularity,” Shahat told reporters.Despite his relatively liberal outlook, Abouel Fotouh secured the backing of the nation’s largest Salafi movement for merely pragmatic reasons. The Alexandria-based group believes Abouel Fotouh is the only Islamist candidate capable of standing up to secular nominee Amr Moussa in the upcoming race.“With all due respect to Dr. Morsy, he has been at a disadvantage in terms of media coverage because he was fielded at the last minute. Plus, the media has launched a campaign against him,” said Shahat, casting doubts that Morsy could defeat Moussa.

Sta mi ovde zapravo vidimo - da Mursi nije podrzan od salafista u prvom krugu iz pragmaticnih razloga, da se po njima kasno ukljucio, da je neosporan islamista koji i dalje vrlo respektabilnu podrsku i simpatije Nurana™. Pritom, njihov kandidat Fotuh je citav zivot proveo u MB i izasao 2011. Upravo je Mursi sprecio podrsku MB Fotuhu, inace omiljenog medju klincima u pokretu:

In late December 2011, Mohamed Morsy, president of the Freedom and Justice Party, stated that "the party will not endorse any presidential candidate that left the MB even if he was once a leading member in the organization or even if his ideals are similar to those of the MB He was, of course, making an indirect reference to Abou al-Fotouh. He then reiterated that "the FJP will not introduce a presidential candidate, but is rather seeking one to support."Aboul Fotouh has attempted to build a broad base of support. Aboul Fotouh was officially endorsed by the Salafi Al-Nour Party on 28 April 2012

Imajuci u vidu navedeno, ne treba da cudi podrska salafista bratku Mursiju u drugom krugu, a nasta toliko jasno aludiram u svom kontriranju profesoru:

Salafis back MorsiThe commission put official turnout in the vote, the first since the 2011 uprising that ousted president Hosni Mubarak, at 46 percent, of the 50 million Egyptians who were eligible to cast a ballot in the historic election.Egypt’s ultra-conservative Salafist Al-Nour Party has announced it will back Morsi against Shafiq. “The High Committee of the Al-Nour Party supports Dr. Mohammed Morsi for president of the republic in the runoff,” the party said on its official Twitter account. The Al-Nour Party had backed moderate Islamist and ex-Brotherhood member Abdel-Moneim Abolfotoh in the presidential race after their candidate Hazem Abu Ismail was disqualified from standing.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nid=21822Sad kad smo razjasnili, sto bi rekao profesor, levicarsku™ carku u porodici, ljubazno pitam da li si jos uvek spreman da potpises profin tekst...

[Roger Sanchez]

Da li se zna kad je ta svemoćna egipatska vojska poslednji put dobila neki rat? Zna se koje je izgubila.

Ratovali su zajedno sa Basharovim ćaćom Hafezom i bogatim ujkom Saudom protiv strike Saddama. Edited August 30, 2013 by Roger Sanchez

[hazard]

Zar nisu bas Egipcani na kraju oslobodili tj. prvi usli u Kuvajt siti?

[urkozamanje]

Cini mi se da je to bila UAE army. Al' izgibose od nekih mina. Qatar, kao velesila :) je prvi usao u neki gradic, pa ostali.. ne znam detalje (verovatno su poluinformacije), ali urbana legenda u regionu kaze tako. U sustini, kazu da su i KSA i Imothep ispali pizde.

[Roger Sanchez]

Zar nisu bas Egipcani na kraju oslobodili tj. prvi usli u Kuvajt siti?

Mislim da su šeik-Kuwaićani prvi ušli, kao što nalaže običaj kada se ratuje oslobađajuće a komotno. Uglavnom, ušao je ujedinjeni arapski kontingent, ali se ne sjećam da li je i Assadova divizija bila s njima ili je ratovala uz Gale.

[Gandalf]

Sad kad smo razjasnili, sto bi rekao profesor, levicarsku™ carku u porodici, ljubazno pitam da li si jos uvek spreman da potpises profin tekst...

politicki islamisti i salafi su usli u klinc svuda, Egipat je aizuzetak. tako da primedba o izdaji samo pokazuje da ne pratis. sto se tice teksta... prvo, rt=!endorsement, ne jednom sam linkovao tekstove koji su interesantni a ja se pri tome ne slazem. drugo, glavna teza stoji, da su liberali bili ojha raspolozeni da udju u koaliciju sa autoritarcima u trenutku kada su se uplasili levicara - jedan od nacina da se predupredi eventualna pobeda (ili jak rezultat) levicara na izborima je bilo ukidanje univerzalnog prava glasa 1850e. i na kraju, ako bih sta tu potpisao - valja procitati 18-i Brumer. http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1852/18th-brumaire/ch04.htm

The law of May 31, 1850, was the coup d'etat of the bourgeoisie. All its conquests over the revolution hitherto had only a provisional character and were endangered as soon as the existing National Assembly retired from the stage. They depended on the hazards of a new general election, and the history of elections since 1848 irrefutably proved that the bourgeoisie's moral sway over the mass of the people was lost in the same measure as its actual domination developed. On March 10 universal suffrage declared itself directly against the domination of the bourgeoisie; the bourgeoisie answered by outlawing universal suffrage.

[Yoda]

politicki islamisti i salafi su usli u klinc svuda, Egipat je aizuzetak. tako da primedba o izdaji samo pokazuje da ne pratis.

Znaci tako, spoznaja od preigravanja i brzopletosti nas tera da prospemo sipino mastilo i zamrljamo sve dosad napisano.Pritom dodamo zacin relativizacije, pa cemo da razvucemo pricu na - svuda. A ko u profinom tekstu pominje to - svuda? Profi je okvir Egipat, ja to samo pratim i nista vise.Dakle, manje zaletanja i jeftinog izvlacenja, a vise citanja onog sto ti napise sagovornik i bude sve ok.

sto se tice teksta... prvo, rt=!endorsement, ne jednom sam linkovao tekstove koji su interesantni a ja se pri tome ne slazem. drugo, glavna teza stoji, da su liberali bili ojha raspolozeni da udju u koaliciju sa autoritarcima u trenutku kada su se uplasili levicara - jedan od nacina da se predupredi eventualna pobeda (ili jak rezultat) levicara na izborima je bilo ukidanje univerzalnog prava glasa 1850e. i na kraju, ako bih sta tu potpisao - valja procitati 18-i Brumer.http://www.marxists....umaire/ch04.htm

Vidi, ako hoces da mi uzvratis Marksovim vidjenjem 1848, onda imas pdf za to. U svetlu novih cinjenica ne znam da li podrzavas profin tekst ili ti je samo zanimljiv? Iskreno se nadam da ce profa sledeci put malo mudrije da prodaje ovu socdem secernu vodicu, jer to sto su brade Ahmeda Jasina ( Muhameda Badija, upisati po zelji) i Luja Augusta Blankija licile jedna na drugu, ne znaci da postoje i ostale slicnosti

[savindan]

Затварање Синајског манастира св. Катаринеhttp://www.al-monito...nai-unrest.html

Sinai's St. Catherine's Starves, Monastery Shuts Down Father Paolos, a member of St. Catherine's Monastery's Holy Council, walks out of the farm for an interview with Al-Monitor on Monday, Sept. 2, 2013. He has been living in the monastery since 1972. (photo by Mohannad Sabry) By: Mohannad Sabry for Al-Monitor Posted on September 4. ST. CATHERINE'S — In the Sinai city of St. Catherine, a few thousand people and around 800 camels have been left struggling since the first week of July, when Egyptian security authorities ordered the total shutdown of the town's 1,500-year-old monastery. Bedouin residents of the mountainous area were forced to sell their camels, which they cannot feed, to feed their families.Over the past 50 years, St. Catherine's Monastery closed its gates twice, in 1977 when former President Anwar Sadat made his historic visit to Jerusalem, and in 1982 when the Egyptian military entered Sinai after the withdrawal of Israeli forces. This time, the shutdown, which wasn’t explained by any official statements from either the Defense or Interior Ministry, was allegedly ordered after a failed attempt to kidnap a monk traveling in South Sinai in June and rising suspicions of a possible attack on the monastery."This is the third time we've closed since the early 1960s before the Israeli occupation. And even during the occupation, we remained open," Father Paolos, a member of the monastery's Holy Council who's been serving in St. Catherine's since 1972, told Al-Monitor on Monday, Sept. 2 "After the attacks on churches around the country in the past two months, we received orders from security authorities to shut down for security reasons.""Despite having more time to pray and practice, our priests live without crowds of visitors, we are suffering a major financial crisis, and we cannot cover the monastery's expenses and dozens of families that we constantly support," said Paolos, who wore his farming clothes covered in mud.St. Catherine's Monastery employs 400 workers from the surrounding community at its olive groves, grape farms, honey bee farms and several processing facilities including an olive oil press. As of the beginning of September, the monastery reserves decreased to a level that is barely enough to cover two months of expenditure."We respect the Egyptian government, and we will continue to close if they require the closure," said Paolos, "But we will have to drastically cut down salaries and other expenditures. We are saddened to lose the income we shared with the Bedouin community."Meanwhile, the state authorities haven’t moved to help rescue the ailing community despite generating millions of dollars in revenues from hundreds of thousands of tourists who have visited St. Catherine's over the past two decades.One example of the income generated by the state is the entrance tickets imposed by the Ministry of Environment in 2004. Since then, every single tourist is required to pay $5 to enter the town of St. Catherine's.The monastery's administration told Al-Monitor that it operated at full capacity between 2004 and 2011, receiving 4,000 visitors — mostly foreign tourists — five days a week. And even on the monastery's days off, the town received hundreds of tourists climbing Mount Sinai and venturing around the mountains on Bedouin safari trips."We demanded the Egyptian government allocate a portion of those profits to the development of the local community to resolve its long-standing issues, but our requests were never answered since the entrance tickets were imposed," said Paolos.Akin to the rest of Sinai's Bedouin communities, and despite being a bustling, internationally known tourist destination, residents of St. Catherine's have no other sources of income and their infrastructure remains considerably substandard, even non-existent. Until today, potable water hasn’t reached St. Catherine's houses, and those who don't have enough capital to dig wells are forced to buy water or carry their jerry cans to public taps built by other residents who have operating wells on their farms.Since the January 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak's 30 years of dictatorship, the prosperous, tourism-dependent life St. Catherine's Bedouins once enjoyed started dwindling as Egypt descended into political and security turmoil, but no other time was as devastating for this community as the two past months since the ouster of President Mohammed Morsi on July 3.Sheikh Mousa al-Jebaly, the founder of Sheikh Mousa Lodge that was built yards from the monastery in 1982, hadn’t received a single guest since the first week of July. Sipping boiled anis at his lodge yard, Jebaly spoke on behalf of his 7,000-member Jabaleyya tribe."Everyone is out of business since the monastery's shutdown. The lodges, the camel stables, the safari guides and even the supermarkets and restaurants," said Jebaly. "If a foreigner appears in town now, it’s those living in the beach towns on the southern shore. They are not tourists, and they don’t stay or shop in town."Jebaly said that the government turned a blind eye to the town's deteriorating situation."The tourism sector workers in Luxor have been compensated for the losses they sustained over the past two and a half years. But here no one even paid us a visit, not even the Tourism Ministry and the Tourism Development Department."The Jabaleyya tribe — which moved from Upper Egypt to St. Catherine's around 1,600 years ago and is committed to the protection of the Eastern Orthodox community and the monastery — is composed of four clans, known locally as quarters. A few decades ago, they imposed a system of dividing all incoming businesses among the four quarters, and each quarter organizes its members to take turns in providing the services and reaping the profits. A strict ban on monopolies is imposed by the tribal chiefs.Ahmed Mousa, a 17-year-old Bedouin of the Jabaleyya, sat at the coffee shop in the town center. A couple of weeks prior, he sold his camel after he could no longer buy it food. His father passed away seven years earlier, and he has taken responsibility for his mother and two sisters since age 10."Feeding a camel costs around 600 Egyptian pounds per month ($85). [This amount was] covered when I worked every day, giving rides and tours to visitors of the monastery," said Mousa, who has worked tirelessly since his father's death to save extra money for his marriage. But his life and future plans were gradually destroyed by several factors: deteriorating tourism conditions since 2011, the monastery's closure last month and, finally, the sale of his only camel."Thanks to God, I sold the camel for a fair price," said Mousa, "but this camel was the family's only capital. Now we are spending its money to live and when tourism returns I will not be able to work."At the town's coffee shop, Mousa, as well as several others who have sold or struggled to feed their camels and a few tribal elders, agreed that the town's main request for the government is for it to provide townspeople with food for their camels, the community's most precious possession.A simple calculation made by the Bedouin gathering proposed that one month's food for the town's 800 camels would cost the government around $68,000 if bought at retail prices the Bedouins normally pay, an amount equivalent to that paid by 13,600 tourists for entrance tickets, which according to the monastery's estimates was collected in less than four days until January 2011."We are not asking the government for millions of dollars, we are just asking it for camel food, which would cost it nothing in comparison with the fortunes it made with the help of this community," said Mousa. "We don’t mind suffering until the tourism crisis is over, but selling our camels means destroying our lives permanently."The Bedouins' calculation was made yards from the town's local grocery shop, where hundreds of residents opened account tabs to register their accumulating debts as they bought food for their houses and camels. On Monday, the debts had reached 70,000 Egyptian pounds ($10,000) since the monastery shut down last month. Mohannad Sabry is an Egyptian journalist based in Cairo. He has written for McClatchy Newspapers and The Washington Times, served as managing editor of Global Post's reporting fellowship Covering the Revolution, in Cairo, and contributed to its special reports "Tahrir Square" and "Egypt: The Military, the People." On Twitter: @mmsabry

Edited September 5, 2013 by savindan

[Gandalf]

Znaci tako, spoznaja od preigravanja i brzopletosti nas tera da prospemo sipino mastilo i zamrljamo sve dosad napisano.

tvrditi kako je to nekakva izdaja prosto pokazuje da ne pratis dinamiku odnosa izmedju salafi i politickih islamista, u regionu i u Egiptu.predsednicki izbori su ociti primer da su salafi i MB bili u sudaru od samog pocetka. salafi podrska Fotuhu je bila prst u oko, izmedju ostalog i zbog toga sto je tada bila prica da bi doticni bio najozbiljniji protivnik Morsiju u drugom krugu. jer bi kao najliberalniji kandidat mogao da privuce anti-MB, a kao islamista i mnoge iz MBa.

Vidi, ako hoces da mi uzvratis Marksovim vidjenjem 1848, onda imas pdf za to.

teskt se zove "Marksove lekcije". u prevodu, sta bi to Marksova monografija o revoluciji 1848 i desavanjima koja su prethodila drzavnom udaru 1851-e mogla da nauci Egipcane. ergo, procitati 18-i Brumer. Edited September 6, 2013 by Gandalf

[Yoda]

Dodjosmo i do toga - lakse je napraviti tvrdu paralelu sa dogadjajima od pre 160 godina nego mekanu sa pokretom iz (gotovo) iste kuce. Dodje mi da Jasina ili Badija retroaktivno uclanim u Internacionalu, a Saida Kutba kao salafistickog jeretika i izdajnickog agenta u MB spalim na lomaci.Kada ne bi toliko navijao i nadgornjavao se radi nadgornjavanja ne bi se bavio time koliko neko nesto prati ili zna (mada je to hrabro sa tvoje strane). Umesto toga, procitao bi ono sto ti neko napise i linkuje, a ne zamisljao ono sto bi voleo da pise. Ova nova takticka razigravanja u stilu sta bi bilo kad bi bilo (a nije bilo) su potpuno izvucena iz konteksta citave ove price, jer su cinjenice da Morsi i Fotuh poticu iz iste porodice™, kao i da su salafisti podrzali Morsija u drugom krugu. To su neoborive cinjenice koje su, da podsetim, iskoriscene kao kontrateza profinom tekstu. To sto se nama to mozda ne svidja, pa bismo da jeftino spinujemo ocigledno nije nesto sto iole pristojnijeg coveka moze da fascinira.Jos nesto - ne kazem izdaja, nego izdaja™ i u to u trenutku dok, prihvatajuci profinu paradigmu da bi ga gadjao vlastitim oruzjem oko nedoslednosti, vozim levim tockovima po 1848, a desnim po 2013. Hocu da kazem da je nekada pokret bio daleko monolitniji nego ovaj sada, a koji nisu cinila samo MB.Hvala ti za Brimer, citao sam to jos u srednjoj skoli za casove marksizma. I jos tada smo naucili kako se cita cika Marks - ne radi jeftinih i anahronih paralela, vec da bi se razumela jedna od levicarskih perspektiva drustveno-ekonomskog razvoja u kojoj je vera stvar reakcije, a ne progresa. I sve mi se cini da bi zapravo Marks u Egiptu podrzao multikulti gradjance sa sve vojskom na celu umesto heterogene islamisticko-demokratske™ strukture iza koje stoji autoritet serijata.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Yoda

[Budja]

On Thursday, the European Union's foreign policy chief, Baroness Catherine Ashton, held talks with armed forces chief Gen Abdul Fattah al-Sisi and interim President Adly Mansour, as well as with religious leaders."I got a real sense of everyone really trying to go forward in the right way," she told reporters afterwards.

Baronesa. :isuse:EU u epizodi odbrane demokratije.

[Takeshi]

generali napreduju sa uvodjenjem demokratije:Egypt's Morsi charged with 'terrorist acts'