Egipat - vojska, muslimanska braća, puč

[Gandalf]

Ja jos ne uspevam da shvatim takvo instant pranje mozgova onih koji su, valjda, bili protiv Mubaraka i vojno-policijske drzave.

uz citirani tekst, dodao bih da imam utisak da "sekularna" elita nema drustveno-ekonomsku bazu nezavisno od drzave.manje-vise su vezani za drzavnu upravu, univerzitete, vojsku, itd - sto ce reci, ideologiju na stranu, oni su u sustini deo sistema. ta zavisnost znaci da bi neka islamisticka vlast reformama sistema i izmenama "drustvenog ugovora" pre ili kasnije krenula da ukida privilegije koje je elita uzivala (i nastavice da uziva pod huntom). http://jnthnwrght.blogspot.com/2013/08/elite-angst-in-sisis-egypt-i-doubt-im.html

My initial hypothesis (and I welcome any comment or input from others) is that many of these people saw themselves as the natural rulers of Egypt and assumed that once the dust settled after the 2011 revolution they would take their rightful place at the top of the hierarchy. In 2011 advocacy of democracy and human rights seemed like the best strategy for getting rid of Mubarak and correcting some of the worst features of his regime. Their liberalism won them foreign support and sympathy, and enabled them to assemble a broad domestic alliance bringing together groups that could not possibly aspire to political domination alone but would have a fair chance of some influence under a democratic system. They relished foreign approval at the time and many of them looked forward to Egypt taking its place in the world as a respected nation – a status it had signally failed to achieve under the corrupt and incompetent rule of Mubarak....Looking back at the course of events, and at the psychology of this elite demographic, we can detect during this period the first signs of serious alarm among Egypt's traditional rulers. It was at this stage that we started to hear complaints about the campaigning methods of the Muslim Brotherhood ('They tell people they'll go to heaven if they vote for the Brotherhood', 'They give them free sugar to win their votes') and references to the gullibility of the great unwashed. A well-known author openly questioned whether illiterate people should be allowed to vote at all (literacy tests were famously used in the southern United States to prevent black people from voting).

[savindan]

49-60% бирача је гласало против кандидата МБ на председничким изборима.Та чињеница се заборавља. Наравно да има противника МБ у Египту.Стратегија Војске је била да се повуче годину-две да би МБ убрскало ствар и покренуло критичну масу против себе да би онда Војска искочила као спасилац.Ниједна диктатура није свемоћна и готово свака почива на одређеној подршци друштва, мањинској или већинској.

[steins]

Zašto Kinik? Zato što mu ide na jetru kada se bez trunke ljudskosti po netu traži bilo šta što bi moglo da poklopi masakr civila? Ta, u Srbiji tako pogubno ukorenjena "A pogledaj malo šta su oni (nama) radili" logika je toliko odvratna da čovek više ne zna ni kako da reaguje na takvu nehumanost. Osim da se ćutke prekrsti i sutra ujutro odseli što dalje od takve tamnice uma.

А твоја људскост се мери негацијом туђег права на качење вести из Египта на теми о Египту? Или импутирањем намера?

ljudskometrija™ je jedna od najgroznijih posledica civilizacijskog razvoja i patkometrija uopšte prema kojoj je "šta su nam radili" patkomerija mala maca. Takodje je i najbolji pokazatelj koliko je internet /zapravo ovaj svima i svugde dostupni BB/ degenerisao ljudsku rasu.

[Anonymous]

Da li se zna kad je ta svemoćna egipatska vojska poslednji put dobila neki rat? Zna se koje je izgubila.

[nautilus]

Protiv Libije?edit: nasao ga i na wikiju, mislio sam da je bio osamdesetih. nije :Dhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan%E2%80%93Egyptian_War

Edited August 23, 2013 by nautilus

[Anonymous]

Kao JNA, pa još gore. Veoma su efikasni kad trebaju da nahrane svoja debela dupeta i da ubijaju sopstveni narod, a kad se pojavi ozbiljan izazov, onda trt.

[Budja]

Ниједна диктатура није свемоћна и готово свака почива на одређеној подршци друштва, мањинској или већинској.

A ovo je relevantno kako?Naravno da svaka diktatura ima drustvenu grupu na koju se oslanja. To je otkrivanje tople vode.No, nacin na koga ga ti upotrebljavas jeste da legitimizujes diktaturu a ne da je kritikujes.

[Muwan]

А твоја људскост се мери негацијом туђег права на качење вести из Египта на теми о Египту? Или импутирањем намера?

Kači bre šta god ti je srcu milo, naravno da imaš pravo na to. Ja imam pravo da bacim peglu kada to pročitam, i svima lepo.

[hazard]

uz citirani tekst, dodao bih da imam utisak da "sekularna" elita nema drustveno-ekonomsku bazu nezavisno od drzave.manje-vise su vezani za drzavnu upravu, univerzitete, vojsku, itd - sto ce reci, ideologiju na stranu, oni su u sustini deo sistema. ta zavisnost znaci da bi neka islamisticka vlast reformama sistema i izmenama "drustvenog ugovora" pre ili kasnije krenula da ukida privilegije koje je elita uzivala (i nastavice da uziva pod huntom).

Da dodamo da se posle pada Mubaraka pogorsala i ekonomska i bezbednosna situacija, tako da imas i "obicnih ljudi" koji se tog vremena sad nostalgicno secaju. Mislim, setimo se ko je pored Morsija usao u 2. krug predsednickih izbora.

[Gandalf]

Da dodamo da se posle pada Mubaraka pogorsala i ekonomska i bezbednosna situacija, tako da imas i "obicnih ljudi" koji se tog vremena sad nostalgicno secaju.

da. s tim da su "obicni ljudi" mogli i trebali da na narednim izborima glasaju protiv MB-a.problem je to sto sa obicnim ljudima nikad nisi siguran, imaju naviku da glasaju za pogresne ljude. ovako, izbori se odlazu na neodredjeno vreme, a svima ce biti omoguceno da glasaju za proverene umereno-sekularne kandidate.mission accomplished.edit: negde u februaru ili martu ove godine je Morsi pokusao da raspise parlamentarne izbore. sud je tu odluku oborio, a tu odluku suda je pozdravila "sekularna" opozicija. Edited August 24, 2013 by Gandalf

[savindan]

Kači bre šta god ti je srcu milo, naravno da imaš pravo na to. Ja imam pravo da bacim peglu kada to pročitam, i svima lepo.

Бацао пеглу због тога што те као човека згражава нељудскост МБ активиста према невинимилизбог тога што сам се усудио да пренесем чињенице, док Хиландар гори?

[Muwan]

Ni jedno ni drugo.

[Gandalf]

Marx’s Lesson for the Muslim Brothers

KARL MARX wrote that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce. He had in mind the Revolution of 1848, when a democratic uprising against the French monarchy collapsed into a Bonapartist dictatorship just as the French Revolution had six decades earlier.In 1848, workers joined with liberals in a democratic revolt to overthrow the French monarchy. However, almost as soon as the old order collapsed, the opposition fell apart, as liberals grew increasingly alarmed by what they saw as “radical” working class demands. Conservatives were able to co-opt fearful liberals and reinstall new forms of dictatorship.Those same patterns are playing out in Egypt today — with liberals and authoritarians playing themselves, and Islamists playing the role of socialists. Once again, an inexperienced and impatient mass movement has overreached after gaining power. Once again, liberals have been frightened by the changes their former partners want to enact and have come crawling back to the old regime for protection. And as in 1848, authoritarians have been happy to take back the reins of power.The year 1848, the original “springtime of the peoples,” was the first time that an organized workers’ movement had appeared on the political scene, and its demands frightened liberals. The middle class wanted economic liberalization; many workers demanded more radical economic and social change. Liberals favored a limited opening of the political system, while workers’ groups wanted full democratization and the power that came with it. When it became clear that workers and socialists might win, liberals balked, and many of them turned back to the conservatives, seeing the restoration of authoritarianism as the lesser of two evils.

[Zaz_pi]

ZaboravljeniBahrein :)

[Yoda]

Malo je nategao paralelu profesor.

Liberals favored a limited opening of the political system, while workers’ groups wanted full democratization and the power that came with it. When it became clear that workers and socialists might win, liberals balked, and many of them turned back to the conservatives, seeing the restoration of authoritarianism as the lesser of two evils.

Naprotiv, radikalno levi su ubedljivo izgubili izbore i pokusali da nastave revoluciju (da li je to ta full democratization?) ruseci dotadasnji zajednicki poduhvat. Tu su se i razisli sa liberalima. MB su dvostruki izborni pobednici koje je rusila reakcija™. Mozda su islamizam i socijalizam slicni, ali tehnike osvajanja vlasti svakako nisu.A dok se bavio izdajom liberala, izgubio je iz vida drugi, skoro isto tako jaki revolucionarni™ element - salafiste. 1848/49 nije bilo unutrasnje izdaje™.Da ne pominjemo svevidecu spoljnu kariku™ u egipatskom slucaju, koja je u francuskom bila zanemarljiva. Edited August 30, 2013 by Yoda