Avionski udesi i nesreće

[vememah]

1 noćni čuvar će po svoj prilici da nadrlja.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by vememah

[Bambula]

Bilo i za ocekivati, sad ce Iran da isturi nekoga iz PVO koji je gadjao jer je mislio da je nesto drugo u pitanju.I svi "srecni". 

 

A izgleda je tako i bilo. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bambula

[3opge]

po analizi koju sam upravo slusao na radiju roknuli su ga sa 2 rakete, ova eksplozija sto je snimljena je verovatno pogodak druge rakete.

inace je uobicaejno da se gadja sa 2 rakete.

posle prve je pilot pokusao da okrene i da se vrati dok je avion goreo a onda je pogodjen drugom.

 

[Bambula]

Tesko bi on na toj visini okrenuo polse prvog susreta sa raketom, to je cak manevar zahtevan i za lovce,skoro na ivici nemoguceg. 

[3opge]

cinjenica je da jeste okrenuo.

 

[Bambula]

Jeste, ali uzmi u obzir koliko je vremena potrebno za takav manevar i dal bi operater cekao da krene nazad da ga presretne po drugi put.Uz to ako je prva raketa presrela cilj na toj visini taj pilot nema sanse da avion ispravi, shvati sta ga je presrelo i da se u skolskom manevru vrati ka aerodromu.Bez pomoci sa zemlje sanse za to su ravne 0,a i uz svu pomoc sa zemlje za takav manevar na toj visini treba dobrih par minuta, a za tih par minuta ta letelica je u zahvatu i mnogo primitivnijih orudja od TOR.A Boing ne da nema takve manevarske sposobnosti vec ih nemaju ni lovci.A oni koji imaju tesko bi izvukli takvu situaciju. 

 

Letelica u odlasku na maloj visini sa brzinom koju ostvaruje Boing je 1/1 za bilo koji PVO sistem.Tako da prica o dve rakete je scenario za film. 

[3opge]

o cemu ti pricas?

nije on izbegavao drugu raketu specijalnim manevrom nego je gledao da nekako spusti tesko osteceni avion koji gori.

 

[Bambula]

Uporedi ono sto je dostupnu sa tezom o dve raketeci bice ti jasno. 

[vememah]

 

 

Malo doteran Google prevod:

Quote

Several sources in Iran have told Iran International that an expert team in Iran is investigating reports that a human error caused the missile to hit the aircraft shortly after landing at taking off from Imam Airport.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by vememah

[3opge]

ipak Dzemo.

 

[Redoran]

15 hours ago, 3opge said:

cenis da se zastavnik Dzemo malo napio pa ispalio raketu da senluci?

 

Nije se napio nego su mu živci popustili  u veoma napetoj situaciji a nije imao informacije koje je trebalo da ima. To je recept za katastrofu koji smo videli već puno puta i koji se po pravilu dešava kada se vojne operacije ukrste sa civilnim vazdušnim saobraćajem.

 

Iranske vlasti su morale da obustave sav vazdušni saobraćaj makar na nekoliko sati, dok ne budu koliko-toliko sigurni da neće biti američke odmazde po Teheranu. Ideja da držiš otvorenim glavni međunarodni aerodom u zemlji dok ispaljuješ balističke rakete na američke ciljeve je sama po sebi suluda na više nivoa. Sve posle toga su oni mali sitni koraci koji se jedan za drugim uklapaju i formiraju lanac događaja za tragičnim ishodom. 

 

Prvo, uvek je upitno kakve informacije o dolaznim i odlaznim letovima je dobila vojska (npr. da li su bili obavešteni da ukrajinski avion kasni u poletanju). Dalje je veliko pitanje kako komuniciraju regularna vojska i Revolucionarna garda (čije snage su oborile avion). Zatim ode 25 balističkih raketa na američku bazu i sad imaš masu PVO posada u stanju pune pripravnosti, koje u gluvo doba noći očekuju američki kontraudar. Svaki civilni avion koji se u takvoj situaciji nađe na nebu ima na sebi ogromnu metu. Vera u to da vojska zna gde se ko nalazi i odlično razlikuje civilne od vojnih ciljeva je... naivna, da se tako izrazim. Vojska o tome pojma nema a vojska ima taj nezgodan običaj da prvo puca pa posle pita u šta je zapravo pucala. Slično se desilo u Donbasu gde su ukrajinske vlasti apsolutno bile u obavezi da zatvore taj deo svog VaP za sav civilni saobraćaj ali to nisu učinile i to ih čini prevashodno odgovornim za ono što se desilo. Jer kada kreiraš takvu situaciju samo je pitanje vremena ko će dole na zemlji da pritisne dugme. Tako je američka mornarica oborila iranski putnički avion, tako je ukrajinska vojska oborila ruski putnički avion tokom vojne vežbe, plus par tragedija čije zvanične verzije su vrlo sumnjive i mnoštvo informacija ukazuje na slučajno obaranje (npr. TWA800 ili JU367). Postoji i posebno interesatna misterija IH870 koji je kasnio dva sata u Palermo i oboren je nadomak istog jer je neko^tm mislio da gađa Gadafijev avion i da ga je provereno naciljao.

 

Da ponovim: svako, ali svako ostavljanje VaP otvorenim u situaciji kada neko sprovodi, planira ili očekuje vojne operacije u tom istom prostoru, predstavlja kockanje sa životima putnika i posada. Tragedije se događaju više nego redovno i evidentno je da niko ne izvlači pouke iz njih.

 

Ako je ovaj avion zaista pogođen iz PVO sistema CVR i FDR zapisi bi to trebalo da potvrde. Za Iran je u tom slučaju bolje da prizna i ponudi odštetu nego da poriče. Ako budu poricali završiće na sudu i tamo biti proglašeni krivima, a ako priznaju neće im niko uvoditi međunarodne sankcije samo zbog toga. Žrtvovaće par nekih debila u lancu komande i to je to,

[Redoran]

Evo, izgleda da iranski mediji potvrđuju nenamerno obaranje od strane PVO.

 

Zarif izražava žaljenje i saučešće porodicama, Ruhani koristi izraz "unforgivable mistake".

[vememah]

 

Saopštenja:

Rouhani: Investigations will continue to identify and prosecute all involved in plane crash tragedy

January 11, 2020 - 9:20

TEHRAN - President Hassan Rouhani has pledged to continue investigations for identifying and prosecuting all individuals involved in the unintentional shootdown of the Ukrainian plane which crashed shortly after taking off from Tehran’s Imam Khomeini airport on January 8, leading to the death of 176 people on board.

In a statement on Saturday morning, Rouhani noted that the country "deeply regrets this disastrous mistake."

"Armed Forces’ internal investigation has concluded that regrettably, missiles fired due to human error caused the horrific crash of the Ukrainian plane (and) death of 176 innocent people. Investigations continue to identify (and) prosecute this great tragedy (and) unforgivable mistake," Rouhani said on his official Twitter account.

"My thoughts and prayers go to all the mourning families. I offer my sincerest condolences," he said, adding that "investigations continue to identify and prosecute this great tragedy and unforgivable mistake," he added.

Rouhani’s full text message is as follows:

In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

We are all from Allah and to Him, we shall return (Holy Quran)

Noble people of Iran

With the utmost regret and sorrow, hours ago I was informed of the outcome of the General Staff of the Armed Forces’ investigation into the Ukrainian passenger plane crash. In the atmosphere of threats and intimidation by the aggressive American regime against the Iranian nation after the martyrdom of General Qasem Soleimani, and in order to defend ourselves against possible attacks by the American Army, the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran were on full alert, which unfortunately led to this terrible catastrophe taking the lives of dozens of innocent people because of human error and mistaken shooting

The Islamic Republic of Iran is deeply sorry by this disastrous mistake, and I extend my deepest condolences to the families of the victims of this tragic incident on behalf of the Islamic Republic of Iran and instruct all related organs to take all necessary measures to compensate and sympathize with the bereaved families. I also express my deep condolences and sympathy to the Iranian government to the nations, governments, and families of non-Iranian victims. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs will be in full consular cooperation to identify and return the bodies of victims to their families.

This painful accident is not something that can be easily overlooked. Further investigation is needed to identify all the causes and roots of this tragedy and prosecute the perpetrators of this unforgivable mistake and inform the honorable people of Iran and the families of the victims about it.

It is also necessary to adopt the required arrangements and measures to address the weaknesses of the country's defense systems to make sure such a disaster is never repeated.

Again, I extend my condolences to the families of the victims of this painful accident, praying for those who lost their lives and wishing their bereaved families patience and rewards.

Hassan Rouhani

President of the Islamic Republic of Iran

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/444008/Rouhani-Investigations-will-continue-to-identify-and-prosecute

Zarif blames ‘US adventurism’ over tragic plane incident, offers apologies

Politics
January 11, 2020 - 11:3

TEHRAN – Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif expressed apologies and condolences to all who have been affected by the tragic Ukrainian plane crash in Tehran, saying that US adventurism has led to this disaster.

“A sad day. Preliminary conclusions of internal investigation by Armed Forces: Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster,” Zarif tweeted on Saturday.

“Our profound regrets, apologies, and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations,” he added.

In a statement issued on Saturday, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Islamic Republic of Iran said that the cause of the Ukrainian passenger plane crash near Tehran has been “human error” in an air defense base, which happened amid missile strikes against US military base and considering the possibility of a military action in the accident

All 176 people on the Ukraine International Airlines (UIA) flight died in the crash this week just after take-off from Tehran on a flight to Kiev.

The General Staff of the Armed Forces said those responsible for shooting down the passenger jet would "immediately" be brought before military justice.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/444009/Zarif-blames-US-adventurism-over-tragic-plane-incident-offers

Ukrainian civil airliner downed due to human error: Armed Forces statement

Politics
January 11, 2020 - 8:20

TEHRAN- Staff of Iran’s Armed Forces released a statement early on Saturday noting that human error in an air defense base caused the Ukrainian passenger plane crash near Tehran's Imam Khomeini Airport which led to the loss of life of 176 people on board.

Following the tragic crash of a Boeing 737 Ukrainian airliner early on Wednesday near Tehran's Imam Khomeini Airport, the Armed Forces Staff immediately formed an investigation team independent of Civil Aviation Organization and issued a statement as follows:

1. Following threats made by the American president and military commanders on attacking targets on the soil of the Islamic Republic in case of Iran’s response [to the assassination of Lieutenant General Qassem Soleimani], and due to unprecedented movements in the region’s airspace, Iranian Armed Forces were at the utmost level of readiness and alert.

2. Hours after the missile strike [of IRGC against the U.S. base], aircraft flights of U.S. terrorist forces increased near Iranian borders and also some reports of air threats against the country’s strategic centers were delivered to defense units and some targets were seen on radars which caused increased sensitivity in air defenses.

3. In such sensitive and critical conditions, flight No 752 of Ukraine International Airlines departs from Imam Khomeini Airport and while changing direction, it completely resembles a hostile target approaching a sensitive center of IRGC. In these circumstances, due to human error and unintentionally, the plane was targeted which unfortunately led to the martyrdom of a host of dear compatriots and loss of lives of a number of foreign nationals.

4. Offering condolences to the family of victims and expressing apologies over the human error, Iranian Armed Forces Staff assures the nation that it will make re-occurrence of such incidents impossible through conducting fundamental modifications in operations’ processes of the Armed Forces and that it will hand over the culprit to the military court so as to legally deal with the errors.

5. It was also announced to related officials in IRGC to take to the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB) and provide the nation with a detailed explanation.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/444006/Ukrainian-civil-airliner-downed-due-to-human-error-Armed-Forces

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by vememah

[vememah]

A do danas...

 

 

Blago čovečanstvu kad se ovi dokopaju atomke.

Edited January 11, 2020 by vememah

[goofs]

2 hours ago, Redoran said:

Nije se napio nego su mu živci popustili  u veoma napetoj situaciji a nije imao informacije koje je trebalo da ima. To je recept za katastrofu koji smo videli već puno puta i koji se po pravilu dešava kada se vojne operacije ukrste sa civilnim vazdušnim saobraćajem.

 

Iranske vlasti su morale da obustave sav vazdušni saobraćaj makar na nekoliko sati, dok ne budu koliko-toliko sigurni da neće biti američke odmazde po Teheranu. Ideja da držiš otvorenim glavni međunarodni aerodom u zemlji dok ispaljuješ balističke rakete na američke ciljeve je sama po sebi suluda na više nivoa. Sve posle toga su oni mali sitni koraci koji se jedan za drugim uklapaju i formiraju lanac događaja za tragičnim ishodom. 

 

To. Neverovatan propust, Iran ko da nikad nije bio u ratu. 

 

Takodje, ako posmatras stvari iz ugla te PVO jedinice, oni su u situaciji da nesto leti u blizini njih, vrlo verovatno i ka njima, imaju mogucnost da opale i da se odbrane ili da se tiho pomole i nadaju da ih to nesto nece sravniti sa zemljom. U moru tih propusta i nedostatka informacija to je cista "ja ili oni" situacija, sto je jos jedan veliki stres za vojnika, a pod stresom se jako lako donose pogresne odluke.