Ljudske posade u međuplanetarnim misijama - za i protiv

[fonTelefon]

Besides the need for new technologies, there is a continuing great need for new basic knowledge in the sciences if we wish to improve the conditions of human life on Earth. We need more knowledge in physics and chemistry, in biology and physiology, and very particularly in medicine to cope with all these problems which threaten man's life: hunger, disease, contamination of food and water, pollution of the environment.Kad je verovala u gimnasticarev povratak poverovala je i u ovo garant samo ne znamo da li ga je do sad srela.

[Filipenko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATqNPICzzR0 Edited September 13, 2012 by Filipenko

[Vapad]

[bigvlada]

Ovo bi mogla biti idealno rešenje za sonde do Proksima Kentaure. Putovanje će trajati manje nego što je Vojadžer putovao do sada. Pa kada se sistem razradi, može da se pređe i na ljude. Mini-Mag Orion: A Near-Term Starship?by Paul Gilster on August 29, 2007Physics breakthroughs aside, are there more conventional ways we can reach the stars? Centauri Dreams often cites (with admiration) Robert Forward’s work on beamed laser propulsion, which offers a key advantage: The spacecraft need carry no bulky propellant. Forward’s missions involved a 7200-GW laser to push a 785 ton unmanned probe on an interstellar mission. A manned attempt would involve a 75,000,000-GW laser and a vast vehicle of some 78,500 tons. The laser systems involved in such missions, while within our understanding of physics, are obviously well beyond our current engineering.Are there other ways to accomplish such an interstellar mission? One possibility is a hybrid system that combines what is known as Miniature Magnetic Orion technologies with beamed propulsion. The spacecraft would carry a relatively small amount of fission fuel, with the remainder of the propellant — in the form of particles of fissionable material with a deuterium/tritium core — being beamed to the spacecraft. In a recent paper in Acta Astronautica, Dana Andrews (Andrews Space) and Roger Lenard (Sandia National Laboratories) describe these technologies and their own recent studies of the Mini-Mag Orion concept.Mini-Mag Orion, of course, harkens back to the original Project Orion, an attempt to develop a spacecraft that would be driven by successive detonations of nuclear bombs. Mini-Mag Orion takes the concept in entirely new directions, reducing the size of the vehicle drastically by using magnetic compression technology, which Andrews and Lenard have studied using Sandia National Laboratories’ Z-Pinch Machine, the world’s largest operational pulse power device. Their experimental and analytical progress is outlined in the paper referenced below; they now propose a follow-on program to extend their experimental work.The originally envisioned spacecraft would compress small fuel pellets to high density using a magnetic field, directing plasma from the resultant explosion through a magnetic nozzle to create thrust. This highly efficient form of pulsed nuclear propulsion is here paired for interstellar purposes with beamed propulsion methods, taking advantage of a pellet stream that continuously fuels the departing spacecraft. The interstellar Mini-Mag Orion attains approximately ten percent of light speed using these methods, and as Andrews and Lenard show, the hybrid technologies here studied reduce power requirements from the departing star system and the timeframe over which acceleration and power have to be applied.Image: The Mini-Mag Orion interstellar concept, a hybrid starship accelerated by beamed pellet propellants, and decelerated with a magnetic sail. Credit: Roger Lenard/Dana Andrews; Andrews Space.With the bulk of the propellant being supplied externally, deceleration in the target star system is an obvious challenge, one met through the use of a magnetic sail. Here is the authors’ explanation of what is essentially ‘free’ deceleration:In 2003 both Andrews and Lenard postulated using a large superconducting ring to intercept charge particles in interstellar space to slow the spacecraft down from high speeds. Additionally, the solar wind emanating from a star system provides an additional source of charged particles that can interact with the magnetic field. Deceleration can actually begin a sizable distance from the target star system… [T]he first phase of the deceleration starts at 21600 AU with a two-turn superconducting carbon nano tube reinforced loop. This loop captures the charged interstellar medium and deflects it to decelerate the spacecraft. This initial hoop size is 500 km in radius and carries 1,000,000 A of current. The spacecraft decelerates from .1 c to 6300 km/s by the time the spacecraft reaches 5000 AU. This will be quite a light show, so if there are any intelligent life forms with an observing system, they should be able to see the arrival.Quite a light show indeed! But note this: Even in the absence of a paradigm-changing physics breakthrough, Andrews and Lenard, as Forward before them, have demonstrated that there are ways to reach nearby stars with technologies we understand today and may be able to build within the century. Assume methods no more advanced than these coupled with advances in biology and life extension and it is conceivable that long-lived human crews could populate the galaxy in a series of 60 to 90 light year expansions, an interstellar diaspora that, the authors calculate, could occur every four to five thousand years.Work out the numbers and you get half the galaxy populated within a million years (Fermi’s question again resonates). The paper is Lenard and Andrews, “Use of Mini-Mag Orion and superconducting coils for near-term interstellar transportation,” Acta Astronautica 61 (2007), pp. 450-458.http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=1430

[bigvlada]

U jeku Apolo ere, 1967. godine, pisane su različite studije o upotrebi apolo infrastrukture van prvobitnih misija na Mesec (AAP Apollo Application Programme). Jedan od takvih projekata je bio obilazak broda sa posadom oko Venere. Umesto mesečevog lendera, bio bi upotrebljen novi modul koji bi bio sličan modulu orbitalne stanice, sa prostorom za život i laboratorijama za vršenje eksperimenata tročlane posade. Veći deo bi bio upotrebljen stepen Saturn rakete.http://ntrs.nasa.gov..._1979072165.pdfDruga studija, iz 1969. godine, je još ambicioznija, računali su koliko vremena ljudskoj posadi treba do Jupitera, Saturna, Urana, Neptuna i Plutona.http://ntrs.nasa.gov..._1970028253.pdfPosle dosta škrabanja i računanja, došli su do zaključka da bi sve sem Jupitera jako dugo trajalo. Let oko Jupitera i nazad bi korišćenjem idealne trajektorije i tada dostupne tehnologije trajao minimum 591 dan. Brojke za Saturn su od 559 do 4383 dana (u zavisnosti od trajektorije), Uran od 548 do 6911 dana, Neptun od 546 do 6874 dana i Pluton od 548 do 6850 dana. Minimalna vremena su slična jer je za dalje planete potrebna veća brzina (najveća je 222,55 km/s).Ovo su slučajevi kada je (sa pravom ) odlučeno da roboti to mogu da urade brže i jeftinije. Za ljudske posade, brzine bi morale da budu nekoliko puta veće da bi se moglo ozbiljnije razmišljati o njima.

Edited December 24, 2012 by bigvlada

[katodik]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21603490Jel neko ispratio ovo? Sad naleteo na BBC-u uzivo. 2 osobe, prelet oko Marsa za 5 godina, bez sletanja. Januar 2018. Zivo me zanima da li ce nesto biti od ovoga...

[Indy]

Ne verujem da ce doci do toga, a iskreno receno i bolje ako ne dodje.

[katodik]

I ja sam skeptican, ali me zanima zasto mislis da je bolje da ne dodje do ovoga? Ako ne probamo, necemo nikad saznati da li je uopste izvodljivo...

[Indy]

I ja sam skeptican, ali me zanima zasto mislis da je bolje da ne dodje do ovoga? Ako ne probamo, necemo nikad saznati da li je uopste izvodljivo...

Mislim da je prevelik rizik za ljude, a i zrtva (cak i ako se oni slazu). Bolje da unapredimo robote, osim baterija, njima nista ne treba da jedu, piju, ne treba im WC, nece poludeti od dosade i tesnog prostora... Ne smeta im ni malo radijacije.A drugo, znam da ce zvucati konzervativno (vise nego sto ja to jesam), ali ima puno stvari na ovoj planeti koje nismo istrazili. (Recimo, tek nedavno su otkrivene neke vrste u dubinama mora). Ekologija ove zive, dragocene, planete mi nekako ima prioritet u odnosu na svemirsko stenje, radijaciju i prazan prostor. Na nase oci izumiru dragocene actually postojece vrste zivih bica, slezemo ramenima, i skupljamo stenje sa neke mrtve planete da vidimo da li u njemu ima tragova mikroba od pre 3 milijarde godina. Volim ja Svemir, SF i sve to... ali, kao i u slucaju pornica, mislim da neke stvari treba da ostanu u domenu fantazije. Sto sam matoriji, sve sam blize da postanem gej gajista (as in Gaia)... gledajuci ono sto moze da se vidi od Svemira, samo mogu vise da obozavam ovu nasu plavu i zivu lepoticu. (Ne znaci da sam protiv istrazivanja Svemira, naprotiv - bazicna nauka mnogo dobija od toga.... samo mislim da treba biti odmeren. I nisam siguran koliko su ove privatne inicijative kao ova druga Tita rezultat stvarne fascinacije Svemirom, naukom, itd, a koliko licna megalomanija + sacovanje mogucnosti za buduce eksploatisanje rudnog bogatstva - skoro sam procitao da su rudnici na Mesecu mnogo blizi stvarnosti nego sto mislimo... sto je OK, bolje da kopaju mrtvi Mesec, nego nasu Zemljicu).

[Indy]

EDIT za gornji post (stvarno je kratko vreme za izmenu posta).Naleteh na fotku ove neidentifikovane vrste ribe. Za slucaj da neko trazi alien-e - evo ga!

[katodik]

Legitimno, naravno, ali ja mislim da upravo istrazivanjem svemira i sto da ne, jednog dana sirenjem, mozemo smanjiti pritisak na ogranicene resurse na ovoj planeti. Ja smatram ekologija, tj ocuvanje prirodne sredine na ovoj planeti i i istrazivanje svemira nisu iskljucivi nego se dopunjuju. A sto se tice putovanja ljudi, pa to je neminovnost, jos od trenutka kad smo krenuli iz Afrike...Uostalom, vec smo zagazili u 21. vek i gde su moja leteca kola i letovi do okolnih planeta sa ljudskom?

[Zaz_pi]

Priprema lansirne rampe na kosmodromu Pleseck za testiranje nove rakete u okvriru ruskog svemirskog programa pod nazivom Angara. Ona bi mogla biti nosilac ljudi prema Marsu, u nekoj daljoj buducnosti.Inace, Putin bio u poseti kosmodromu koji se gradi na Dalekom istoku Rusije. Obecao $50 milijardi u narednih 7 godina za svemirska istrazivanja, od toga oko $8 milijardi u zavrsetak kosmodroma.

Russia allocates $50bn to space sectorRussian President Vladimir Putin attends a live link-up with the multinational crew of the International Space Sation (ISS) from the new Vostochny (Eastern) cosmodrome Russia is building in the Amur region of the Far East, on April 12, 2013. Putin unveiled a new $50bn drive for Russia to preserve its status as a top space power, including a new cosmodrome from where humans will fly to space President Vladimir Putin on Friday unveiled a new $50 billion drive for Russia to preserve its status as a top space power, including the construction of a brand new cosmodrome from where humans will fly to space by the end of the decade.Fifty-two years to the day since Yuri Gagarin became the Soviet Union's greatest hero by making the first human flight into space, Putin inspected the new Vostochny (Eastern) cosmodrome Russia is building in the Amur region of its Far East district. Putin said in a live link-up with the multinational crew of the International Space Sation (ISS) that Russia hoped to have the first launches from Vostochny in 2015 and the first manned launches in 2018. "It's going to be a great launch pad.It took a long time to choose but now work is fully underway," said Putin in comments broadcast on state television, adding that Vostochny would be fully operational by 2020. Russia still carries out all manned launches from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan—the same place where Gagarin made his historic flight.But this has been clouded in recent years by disputes with the Kazakh authorities over lease terms. Putin announced that the town being built around the new cosmodrome to house its engineers and families would be called Tsiolkovsky, in honour of the Russian scientist Konstantin Tsiolkovsky who pioneered rocket design in the early Soviet era.The Russian space programme has been hurt in recent years by a string of launch failures of unmanned probes and satellites, but Putin vowed Moscow would ramp up spending. He said that from 2013-2020, Russia would be spending 1.6 trillion rubles ($51.8 billion, 38 million euros) on its space sector, a growth far greater than any other space power. Putin complained that Russia was behind other states in space activities other than manned flights, which he said had long been the "priority" of the Russian space programme "to the detriment" of other projects.With up to 58 percent of the Russian space budget going on manned space flight, Russia had lost ground to other powers, in particular in unmanned deep-space exploration, said Putin. "We need to preserve what we have achieved in manned space flight but also to catch up in these other areas," said Putin, who said he also did not rule out the creation of a ministry of space.One of Russia's most embarrassing failures was the loss of its Phobos-Grunt probe to Mars in 2012 which ended up crashing back into Earth rather than even coming close to completing its mission of visiting a Martian moon. The disaster underlined Russia's weaknesses compared with US space agency NASA, which has basked in the huge public successes of its unmanned Mars missions in recent years.But speaking to Canadian spaceman Chris Hadfield, currently commander of the ISS, Putin hailed cooperation in space which meant world powers could forget about the problems of international relations and think "about the future of mankind." Russia's veteran Soyuz rocket and capsule system, based on the same principles as the system that launched Gagarin, is currently the sole means of transporting humans to the ISS since the retirement of the US shuttle.Putin said that cosmonauts returning to Earth after lifting off from Vostochny would most likely splash down in the Pacific Ocean rather than land as they currently do in Kazakhstan. "Most probably, according to specialists, they will come down on the ocean. So our cosmonauts will splash down rather than touch down," Putin said. The head of Russia's space agency Roscosmos, Vladimir Popovkin, meanwhile said Moscow was targeting 2030 as the year in which it could begin creating a base on the moon for flights to Mars."The moon is a great launch pad, it's basically a big space object on which a whole load of things could be accommodated. Not using it would be sinful," he told state television. © 2013 AFP

http://phys.org/news...sian-space.html Edited April 14, 2013 by Zaz_pi

[Zaz_pi]

Sa time u vezi:

Russia has had a new ship, ready for interplanetary missionsMOSCOW, April 12. / ITAR-TASS /. Russia has had a new ship, ready for interplanetary missions, announced today, Cosmonauts Day, on "Business Breakfast" to "Rossiyskaya Gazeta" Head of the Federal Space Agency / Roskosmos / Vladimir Popovkin.According to him, "has completed a technical project Rocket and Space Corporation" Energia ". Soon begin detailed design, the creation of experimental facilities. Term has not changed: in 2018, to be held the first flight of a new unmanned spacecraft. But it will be a fundamentally new ship ready for interplanetary flight. "However, the new manned spacecraft in itself - it is not a solution. "... Should be designed prospective manned transportation system, which includes a heavy vehicle, and various manned" - convinced Popovkin.He also said that "now is a gradual modification of manned spacecraft" Soyuz. "We made a digital control system, modernized system approach. At the turn - life support system, the propulsion system."The likelihood of interplanetary flights to Russia for the first time creates a "compact nuclear power plant with a capacity of 1000 kW with engines on electro-traction." "This is a megawatt-class installation. Its development opens up a whole other opportunities in space, provides a new look at the use of the geostationary orbit," - said the head of "Russian Space Agency." "By comparison, the ISS solar arrays generate about 100 kW. But the station is in Earth orbit. And when flying, such as to Mars would require an area solar cells, comparable with a dozen football fields!""The variant - Popovkin said - that the engines will run on pure xenon, heated to very high temperatures. And it will give the opportunity to get the specific impulse is 20 times greater than the chemical engines. For us, the most important, as it will be possible to use the module with such energy: in the interorbital tugs, multifunctional platforms and devices for interplanetary missions. no analogues in the world. "But there are two problems: "what should be and what the reactor cooling system.'s Unique cooling system - it drip method, which is theoretically confirmed by us on Earth. I think next year will do the experiment on the ISS, will show that he is in outer space is real. ""The prototype nuclear power installation of 250 kW are planning to do in 2018" - promised Popovkin.

edit: mucenje da postavim vest Edited April 14, 2013 by Zaz_pi

[kapetanm]

Čini mi se, ne znam da li ovde ima stručnjaka, da postoji neka tzv mikropsihologija, psihologija zatvorenih prostora. Pretpostavljam da bi se tokom dužih putovanja ljudi međusobno poubijali od besa kad vide kako saputnik trepće, jede ili spava.

[Zaz_pi]

MARS-500

The Mars-500 mission was a psychosocial isolation experiment conducted between 2007 and 2011 by Russia, the European Space Agency and China, in preparation for a manned spaceflight to the planet Mars. The experiment's facility was located at the Russian Academy of Sciences' Institute of Biomedical Problems (IBMP) in Moscow, Russia.Between 2007 and 2011, three different crews of volunteers lived and worked in a mock-up spacecraft. The final stage of the experiment, which was intended to simulate a 520-day manned mission, was conducted by a crew consisting of three Russians (Alexey Sitev, Sukhrob Kamolov, Alexander Smoleevskij), a Frenchman (Romain Charles), an Italian (Diego Urbina) and a Chinese citizen (Yue Wang). The experiment helped plan the interplanetary mission, identifying possible problems and solutions. The mock-up facility simulated the Earth-Mars shuttle spacecraft, the ascent-descent craft, and the martian surface. Volunteer crew used in the three stages included professionals with experience in fields such as engineering, medicine, biology, and human spaceflight.

Mars 500: simulated mission results reveal problem of sleep deprivation for astronautsMars 500: simulated mission results reveal problem of sleep deprivation for astronautsFollowing the Mars 500 simulated mission in which six astronauts were locked in an isolation facility for 520 days, Dr Mathias Basner explains that his team of researchers have found that the experiment revealed sleep deprivation problems for long space journeys.The simulated mission to Mars which took place in an isolation facility in Moscow between June 2010 and November 2011, revealed data about the sleep needs of astronauts on long journeys in space.The six volunteer astronauts had been confined to a 550-cubic-metre spacecraft-like facility and simulated the activities of a mission to the Red Planet to determine whether humans could cope with the journeys.The University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine's findings, published online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that the mission changed the sleeping patterns of some crew members and led to sleep deprivation.Crew sedentariness grew across the mission due to decreased waking movement and increased sleep and rest periods. They also found that crew members suffered decreases in their alertness and disturbed sleep quality."Taken together, these measurements point to the need to identify markers of differential vulnerability to abnormal decrease in muscular movement and sleep – wake changes in crew members during the prolonged isolation of exploration space flight and the need to ensure maintenance of the Earth's natural circadian rhythm, sleep quantity and quality, and optimal activity levels during exploration missions,"said Mathias Basner, MD, PhD, MSc, assistant professor of Sleep and Chronobiology in Psychiatry at Penn and co-lead author.The researchers concluded that for astronauts to be able to cope with the long space journeys, the spacecraft should artificially mimic Earth's sleep-wake activity cycles, for example by using appropriate light exposure, food intake and exercise.