Svet

[ravena]

Interesantna mapa:

 

https://team.cartodb.com/u/piensaenpixel/viz/2016460c-a7c5-11e5-90ff-0e98b61680bf/embed_map

[vememah]

Sijudadanos pozvao sve stranke da se radi stabilnosti Španije uzdrže pri glasanju o vladi kako bi stranka s najviše mandata tj. PP napravila vladu.

Izvor: večernji dnevnik TVE

[ravena]

Sijudadanos pozvao sve stranke da se radi stabilnosti Španije uzdrže pri glasanju o vladi kako bi stranka s najviše mandata tj. PP napravila vladu.

Izvor: večernji dnevnik TVE

 

Sve? Zanimljivo kako se pise "PSOE i Podemos." 

Videcemo da li ce istu pricu da pricaju kada PSOE bude pravio vladu, a pogotovo (samo da ne dodje) Podemos. 

[Budja]

Cs su rekli da PODEMOS ne dolazi u obzir zbog referenduma u Kataloniji. To je glupo jer je taj referendum jedna od retkih stvari gde su PODEMOS u pravu.

 

No i da se prihvati predlog Cs, PP to ne bi prihvatio. Manjinska Vlada bi pala u roku od odmah.

[vememah]

Sad sam proverio, ipak je samo PSOE u pitanju.

 

Dakle, pozvao je PSOE da se izjasni hoće li podržati PP-ovu manjinsku vladu ili namerava da formira "vladu ili nešto nalik njoj (!) sa 11 političkih stranaka" (tu je uračunao i one građanske platforme s kojima je Podemos išao u pojedinim izbornim jedinicama) i najavio glasanje protiv takve vlade.

 

Izvori (na španskom):

http://www.elperiodico.com/es/noticias/politica/ciudadanos-gobierno-minoria-del-abstencion-psoe-4768624

http://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-rivera-ofrece-abstencion-pp-gobierne-minoria-pide-psoe-haga-mismo-20151221100130.html

Edited December 22, 2015 by vememah

[ravena]

Moze da pita i PP da li bi bio spreman da podrzi vladu PSOE i/ili Podemosa. Zasto da jedni arsini vaze za PP, a drugi za ostale?

C's je prema izbornim anketama belezio dramatican pad poslednjih nedelja, a Podemos drastican rast, upravo iz razloga sto su neki biraci stekli predstavu da je glas za njih, glas za ostanak PP na vlasti. I bili su u pravu, C's je izabrao stranu, sada ga ocekuje dalji pad. 

Mislim da se zato toliko plase, jer novi izbori znace dalje osipanje njihovog birackog tela u korist Rajoy - a i Iglesiasa. 

[Budja]

Moze da pita i PP da li bi bio spreman da podrzi vladu PSOE i/ili Podemosa. Zasto da jedni arsini vaze za PP, a drugi za ostale?

C's je prema izbornim anketama belezio dramatican pad poslednjih nedelja, a Podemos drastican rast, upravo iz razloga sto su neki biraci stekli predstavu da je glas za njih, glas za ostanak PP na vlasti. I bili su u pravu, C's je izabrao stranu, sada ga ocekuje dalji pad. 

Mislim da se zato toliko plase, jer novi izbori znace dalje osipanje njihovog birackog tela u korist Rajoy - a i Iglesiasa. 

 

Tesko da ce Cs dalje da glasaju za Podemos, ne bi se Cs pojavio da nije bilo gradjana kojima je PODEMOS dalek.

Cs ce gubiti glasove, ali u korist Rahoja.

 

PODEMOS moze da raste na racun PSOE, ali i da se spektakularno raspadne.

 

Sve opcije su u igri, a najlakse je verovatno PPu, u daleko su najboljoj poziciji pred moguce sledece izbore.

[borris_]

Traze da se "podrzi" stranka koja je osvojila najvise glasova. Ako ne uspiju da naprave vladu, opet ce na izbore a to Spaniji najmanje odgovara. Nisu rekli da ce glasati za njih nego da ce biti uzdrzani. Nije nikakav skandal. Ali kao sto rece Budja, PP bi tesko mogao da vlada sa ovako manjinskom vladom. Osim ako ne ublaze program.

Edited December 22, 2015 by borris_

[ravena]

Traze da se "podrzi" stranka koja je osvojila najvise glasova. Ako ne uspiju da naprave vladu, opet ce na izbore a to Spaniji najmanje odgovara. Nisu rekli da ce glasati za njih nego da ce biti uzdrzani. Nije nikakav skandal. Ali kao sto rece Budja, PP bi tesko mogao da vlada sa ovako manjinskom vladom. Osim ako ne ublaze program.

 

Naravno da nije. 

Ocekujem da istu strategiju imaju i kada vladu budu pokusali da  sastave PSOE/Podemos.  :)

Edited December 22, 2015 by ravena

[vememah]

Spain's Socialists face hard choices in aftermath of inconclusive election

 

MADRID | By Adrian Croft and Blanca Rodríguez

 

Spain's Socialists face a tough choice of allying with a rival party or triggering a new ballot after an inconclusive election on Sunday plunged the country into political uncertainty.

 

Neither option is attractive because linking up with anti-austerity Podemos ("We Can") could divide the Socialists while they could be accused of destabilising Spain if they are blamed for forcing new elections.

 

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy's centre-right People's Party (PP) won most votes in Sunday's election but fell way short of a majority as left-wing Podemos and another newcomer, centrist Ciudadanos (Citizens), ate into the support of the PP and the Socialists, who between them have ruled Spain for most of the four decades since the end of the Franco dictatorship.

 

The result leaves Spain facing weeks of difficult talks to try to form a government and has unsettled financial markets.

 

Rajoy, who has the first chance to form a new government, has limited options. It is virtually impossible for him to stay in power without the support of the Socialists, or at least their abstention, in a parliamentary vote on a new government.

 

In a clear appeal to the Socialists, but without naming them, Rajoy said on Monday he would talk to parties that shared some of the aims and values of the PP.

 

"Spain cannot allow itself a period of political uncertainty that squanders the progress that...has been achieved in the last two years," Rajoy said, referring to Spain's recovery from a deep recession and financial crisis.

 

A prominent Socialist leader, Susana Diaz, rejected his overture on Tuesday, saying the party must keep its word and vote "emphatically no" to a new PP government.

Allowing the PP to stay in power could alienate left-wing voters who oppose austerity measures introduced by the PP in response to the financial crisis.

 

GREEK PARALLELS

 

The Socialists, already haemorrhaging support to Podemos, are well aware of what happened in Greece, where the once powerful centre-left party Pasok was damaged by joining a coalition led by the centre-right New Democracy in 2012 and saw its support plunge, while left-wing Syriza got into power.

 

"We think (the Socialists) will keep in mind what happened to the centre-left in Greece," Deutsche Bank analysts said in a note, saying such a "grand coalition" was unlikely.

 

Business-friendly Ciudadanos has said it would abstain in a parliamentary vote, allowing the PP to govern, but that would not be enough for the PP.

That leaves the Socialists with two options - trying to form a left-wing coalition with Podemos and Catalan nationalists or admitting defeat and consigning Spain to new elections.

 

The Socialists, who last held power from 2004 to 2011, have kept silent about what they would do if Rajoy fails to form a new government.

 

Their leader Pedro Sanchez, under pressure because of the 1.5 million voters who have abandoned the Socialists since 2011, was the only one of the main party leaders who did not speak to media on Monday.

 

But Podemos leader Pablo Iglesias is insisting on a Catalan independence referendum as a condition for a deal, which would be difficult for the Socialists to agree to.

 

Carlos Barrera, a politics professor at Navarre University, said the Socialists would face opposition, especially from within the party, no matter which option they chose.

 

If the Socialists ally with Podemos, they run the risk of being gobbled up by the fast-growing new party and losing leadership of the left, he told Reuters.

If, on the other hand, the Socialists allowed a minority PP government to stay in power, it would run counter to their campaign message of forming a government of change, he said.

 

Pro-independence parties in Catalonia struck a deal on Tuesday to form a government, reviving a separatist drive just as Spain faces weeks of uncertainty at a national level following the inconclusive general election.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-idUKKBN0U51T720151222?rpc=401

Edited December 22, 2015 by vememah

[3opge]

Noam Chomsky se ozenio u 86 godini

 

Mazel Tov!

[vememah]

 Španski socijalisti ne prihvataju Podemosov zahtev za katalonski referendum.

 

The Spanish Workers'' Socialist Party (PSOE) today ruled out its support for Catalonia''s referendum on self-determination as a step prior to a possible agreement on governance with Podemos (We Can) party. In statements to El Pais daily, PSOE General Secretary Pedro Sanchez said that he will not give in to Podemos Party, which won the third place in the December 20 general elections, in relation to the territorial unity of Spain. Sanchez warned that if the central left group insists on holding Catalonia's referendum, there will be no possible agreement between the two parties.

 

http://www.plenglish.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4466721&Itemid=1

Edited December 27, 2015 by vememah

[hazard]

Nije mi jasan taj tvrdoglavi antireferendumski stav. Britanci su lepo pokazali kako se to radi (ranije i Kanađani, dvaput). Ako ti zemlja nije u potpunom raspadu (a Španija, uprkos svemu, nije, a tek u Kataloniji nije), daleko veću šansu ima ,,ne" opcija, jer je ta kao ,,neodlučna sredina" koja nema čvrst stav ipak skoro uvek konzervativnija i sklonija tome da ne ljulja previše ako baš ne mora. A kada jedanput propadne referendum, onda zapušiš separatistima usta na jedno 15 godina bar.

[borris_]

Kakav stav imaju Ciudadosi u vezi referenduma? Znam da su protiv nezavisnosti, a da li su protiv referenduma?

[vememah]

Jesu.