BrExit?

[hazard]

Misliš da će Brexitovci to podržati, ili odćutati? Kakva su pravila?

 

Ako desi takav tesan rezultat to ce verovatno doci sa 70%+ u Skotskoj za Remain. Onda ce skotski laburisti i libdemsi reci glasacemo zajedno sa SNPom za novi skotski referendum ukoliko nam ne date novi brexit referendum...tako nesto

 

A pravila kao uvek nema, tj. nepisana su kao sva kod Britanaca  -_-

[Tribun_Populi]

I vi hoćete to da ostane u EU? ^_^

[Dr Arslanagić]

Čuj, imamo valjda pravo na svoje sebične razloge?

[Tribun_Populi]

To nije lepo. :D

[Prospero]

Sa sinoćne debate:
 

EU debate: Ruth Davidson takes on Boris Johnson as Remain gets nasty
21 June 2016 • 9:50pm


The largest and longest debate of the EU referendum has just taken place at the SSE Arena in Wembley ahead of the final day of campaigning.
 
Leave's Boris Johnson, Andrea Leadsom and Gisela Stuart and Remain's Sadiq Khan, Ruth Davidson and Frances O'Grady have spent the last two hours taking questions from 6,000-strong audience. 
 
Who were the stars, what were the key moments and which campaign made the most convincing argument?
Here, our panel of columnists give their verdicts.
 
Janet Daley: Project Fear finally showed what they are so scared of – Boris Johnson

There was an extraordinary contrast in tone virtually from the off. The Remain team went for highly personal insults while the Leave team were just beginning to outline their substantive arguments. Sadiq Khan shouted "That's a lie" and repeated the cry of "lies" at every possible moment, aiming his nastiest accusations at Boris. I eventually lost count of the number of times he used the word "lies". (He was booed when he made repeated ugly references to Boris.) 
 
Frances O'Grady of the TUC seemed peculiarly determined to make gratuitous attacks on behalf of the union interest. She even went out of her way to accuse Wetherspoon's (whose chairman was a guest on the debate panel) of underpaying its staff. Extraordinary. She then went on to admit that migration did have to be managed, although "greedy bankers" seemed to be her favourite problem. 

The only arguments that Remain put forward are the conventional Project Fear litany. There was a predictable attempt to smear the Leave camp with the race hate slander. It was answered very effectively by Gisela Stuart and Angela Leadsom, who described the remarks as "unworthy of this debate".

It was clear that Remain see Boris as the biggest danger. Unfortunately, his popularity is such that their attempts to discredit him are counter-productive.

James Kirkup: For all the talk of DIY recessions and sovereignty, immigration will decide the referendum
 
Boris Johnson’s first words about immigration were telling: “We should celebrate immigrants and everything they do for our country.”
That’s a sign of how the Leave campaign is worried by recent Remain attempts to paint the Brexit camp’s calls for a new immigration policy as bigoted or racist. Sure enough, Sadiq Khan came in right on cue, accusing the Leavers of “Project Hate” and “scaremongering”, backed up by Frances O’Grady trying to link Leave to a former BNP member.
 
Remain believes that stigmatising Leavers over immigration can neutralise the Brexit campaign’s strongest weapon, but they met fierce resistance from Gisela Stuart, the German-born Labour MP who declared: “I am an immigrant” and insisted there is nothing bigoted about worrying that immigration affects public services.
 
Both sides will feel happy that they got their key messages across on immigration. But with no clear winner on the most emotive issue in the debate, the referendum result remains on a knife-edge.  

Juliet Samuel: Boris Johnson vs Ruth Davidson just had their first battle for the future of the Conservative Party
 
Viewers expected sparks to fly between the former and current Mayors of London. But we didn’t expect the fireworks between Boris and Ruth Davidson, the Tories’ leader in Scotland.
 
Ms Davidson repeatedly harried Boris with a stock of inconvenient statements he’d made in the past. When Boris said that the EU is a job-destroying machine, Ms Davidson seized the floor to read out a list of quotes from Brexiteers suggesting that jobs “might or might not” be lost if we leave. “That is not good enough,” she declared, to applause.

Her lines were scripted but good, and as the debate went on, she relaxed and became better still. Boris largely wriggled free from her direct attacks, but she kept going and wasn't afraid to show passion.

Her best moment: listing security chiefs who support Remain and declaring that when they speak, "I listen!" She came across as honest, down-to-earth and fresh. She might not have pinned down Boris, but she gave him a run for his money.

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 8h8 hours ago

On which side won the #BBCDebate:

Leave: 39%

Remain: 34%

(via YouGov, online / 21 Jun, post debate)

 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Prospero

[MancMellow]

 

 

Viewers expected sparks to fly between the former and current Mayors of London. But we didn’t expect the fireworks between Boris and Ruth Davidson, the Tories’ leader in Scotland.

 

Samo nek se zajebavaju sa Skotskom

[Prospero]

Raspored časova:

 

---
 
 
So, roughly, this is what to look out for during Thursday and Friday. But don’t set your stopwatches – all timings, bar opening and closing of polls, are subject to change.
(*Note: all times in Brussels/Central European Summer Time. UK time is currently 1 hour behind.)

Thursday 23 June

• Voting booths open at 8AM across England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland (and Gibraltar) and close at 11PM.
• During these hours, British broadcasters and online media, are restricted by law from publishing or printing anything that may affect the outcome of the vote. Whether that could be applied to non-UK media is doubtful.
• Unlike in a General Election, with results by some 650 constituencies of roughly equal size, the referendum count is by a designated 382 ‘counting areas’ across the UK.
• 11PM polls close. Ordinarily, at a General Election, this is the precise second at which the BBC releases its exit poll (remember the shock in 2015 when it – correctly – predicted an outright Conservative victory, in contradiction of all previous opinion polling?). The BBC are not running an official exit poll, citing the lack of previous comparable data to extrapolate assumptions from. ITV and Sky may attempt to fill the gap, but with all opinion polling in recent months pointing to a dead heat, or within margins of error, the potential for catastrophic egg-on-face is huge.

Friday 24 June

• The UK terrestrial broadcasters are running through the night news coverage, but little of significance is likely to be known before around 5AM, and even then only from a conglomeration of individual results, turnout and with an added smattering of speculation.
• There will be a total of 382 ‘mini-results’, or counts, but at the level above that, the UK is designated into 11 regional ‘zones’, whose regional counting officer will relay their overall result to the final count, taking place at Manchester Town Hall.
• As in a UK General Election, Sunderland in the north-east of England is likely to be the first to ‘declare’, at between 01.30AM-2AM. As a deprived and depressed industrial Labour stronghold, this is likely to give an inkling of how UKIP have eaten into the ostensibly pro-EU Labour vote.
• Likewise, Merthyr Tydfil in Wales (2.30AM), and Barking & Dagenham (3.30AM), whilst Nuneaton (3AM) may give a better picture of how ‘Middle England’ has voted.
• “Early hours” – Electoral Commission officials predict they will be able to give a national turnout estimate “in the early hours of Friday”, at least “several hours ahead of the final result”.
• For reference, the highly-anticipated Scottish referendum on independence in 2014 saw 84.6% turnout. By contrast, the turnout at the five UK general elections has been: 66.1% (2015), 65% (2010), 61.4% (2005), 59.4% (2001) and 71.4% (1997).
• A turnout below 60% would suggest a victory by ‘Leave’, as all experts agree their base is more motivated to turn out and vote. Something approaching 70%, and above, may favour ‘Remain’.
• With the UK both split down the middle on ‘Leave’ or ‘Remain’, and highly-stratified by geographical location and class on the issue, there may be some wildly swinging and variable results that in themselves give either campaign cause to celebrate, but ultimately end up cancelling each other out or merely obscuring a clear overview of the overall result.
• In general, London, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are strongly ‘In’, the home counties and the Midlands up for grabs, the east coast heavily ‘Leave’ and many former Labour heartlands in the north and in Wales (which last month elected seven UKIP members to the Welsh Assembly) heavily uncertain.
• Breakfast will be The official ‘time’ by which Electoral Commission officials to have a final result.
• The announcement of the referendum results will take place not in London, but in Manchester, at the city’s town hall. No party leaders are expected to be present in Manchester.

Late Friday Morning

 

Although Downing Street is being coy, it is inconceivable that David Cameron will not make a public statement – probably from the steps of Downing Street as after the Scottish referendum result – around mid-morning, or at least within an hour or so of the official result being known.
With opinion polling neck-and-neck, Cameron, Chancellor George Osborne, and their respective spin doctors, must have come up with both a win and a lose speech, possibly with finer gradations according to the narrowness of the result.
A win could see Cameron declare the issue settled, a mandate for his renegotiation to be put into action, and further reform under the British rotating presidency of the Council of Europe in the second half of 2017.

 

In addition, Cameron is free to reshuffle his cabinet, rewarding those who fought alongside him for Remain, being magnanimous to those who campaigned politely for Leave – and deciding whether to extract revenge on Boris Johnson. Many believe Cameron regards Johnson as having personally betrayed him in order to fight his own Conservative leadership campaign.

 

A Brexit vote is likely to first and foremost have rattled the foreign exchange markets, causing sterling to sink, and the FTSE100 to drop dramatically. This will begin a minimum of two years of painstaking negotiations of the UK’s exit terms, renegotiation of UK trade deals with the rest of the world, and possibly overwhelming pressure on both Cameron and Osborne to resign, or at least outline a timetable for a Conservative party leadership contest.
Under the Fixed-Term Parliament Act of 2011, the next scheduled election is not until 2020, but one could be called a vote of no confidence in the government is called and a simple majority of the 650 MPs vote for it.

• 10.30AM Friday: Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, Council President Donald Tusk, Parliament President Martin Schultz and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte (the Dutch have the rotating presidency of the Council of the EU) are scheduled to meet to discuss the UK result.

Expect comment and reaction from most, if not all heads of government of the other 27 member states. Of particular importance will be German Chancellor Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President François Hollande and, perhaps, the Polish Prime Minister, Beata Szydło.
Last but not least, under a Brussels journalistic perspective: the press centre of the Council will exceptionally remain open through the night of 23-24 June. Journalists usually tweet from there with the #EUCO hashtag.

[Pečorin]

Samo nek se zajebavaju sa Skotskom

Ne nego treba da ćute i puše u svakoj prilici samo da ne povrede ta delikatna osećanja.

Ovo je debata, man.

[MancMellow]

Ne nego treba da ćute i puše u svakoj prilici samo da ne povrede ta delikatna osećanja.

Ovo je debata, man.

 

Jbg, oni su, kao i Spanija, objektivno neka vrsta federacije uz neke elemente koji su i labaviji od toga. 

[Pečorin]

Zaista jbg, jer ako zbog te federacija treba da se plašiš svake reči koju izgovoriš i svake misli koju pomisliš, možda je i bolje da se raspadne.

[Prospero]

Pomenu nas ponekad

 

[Tribun_Populi]

Let 'em just keep rollin'.

[Prospero]

Naravno da Brexit nije samo britanska stvar:

 

Marine Le Pen has seized on the referendum on Britain’s EU membership to request a similar vote in France, as she threw her weight behind the Leave camp in the final stretch of the campaign.

 

The leader of the French far-right National Front party said that the UK referendum taking place on Thursday was proof that the EU was “decaying”, as she pressed her case for France to leave the bloc.

 

“I would vote for Brexit, even if I think that France has a thousand more reasons to leave than the UK,” Ms Le Pen said in a televised interview on Tuesday evening. “Because we have the euro and Schengen,” she added, referring to the single currency and the passport-free zone she staunchly opposes.

 

“Whatever the result, it shows the EU is decaying, that there are cracks everywhere,” she said.

 

The FN has used the UK debate to push its own plan to renegotiate France’s membership terms and has pledged to hold an in-out referendum if it reaches power after presidential elections next year.

 

The anti-immigration and anti-Europe party has vowed to organise a vote six months after winning the presidency. In the months leading up to the French referendum, the party would try to get Brussels to hand “border control, budgetary, legislative and monetary sovereignty” back to France, Ms Le Pen has said. Since Brussels would likely resist this transfer of power to Paris, the FN would then campaign for a “Frexit.”

 

Ms Le Pen, who is predicted to qualify for the second round of the presidential run-off, had considered travelling to the UK before the referendum to support the Out campaign. But the plans failed to materialise after the Leave camp recoiled.

 

On Tuesday, Ms Le Pen described the EU as a “totalitarian” institution, that would not allow any of its members to leave. The EU was responsible for high unemployment, low growth and uncontrolled immigration, she claimed. “So let’s get around a table and create a Europe of the nations,” she said.

[Tribun_Populi]

Neće da može, jer može samo da sanja pobedu na predsedničkim. Problem može biti njeno potencijalno koaliranje sa budućim desnim predsednikom posle parlamentarnih, ali dotle možda i CDU/CSU krene da koalira sa AfD, pa bi to bio već kraj unije as we knew it.

[MancMellow]

Neće da može, jer može samo da sanja pobedu na predsedničkim. Problem može biti njeno potencijalno koaliranje sa budućim desnim predsednikom posle parlamentarnih, ali dotle možda i CDU/CSU krene da koalira sa AfD, pa bi to bio već kraj unije as we knew it.

 

no bleedin' way