Egipat - vojska, muslimanska braća, puč

[Gandalf]

Juče je na Ramzesu ubijen sin jednog od lidera MB, a nekoliko poslanika je sahranilo svoju decu koja su ubijena u kampu Rabaa.

medju mnogim drugima, ubijen je sin prvog coveka MB-a.

[Budja]

Au, pa ovo koptsko saopstenje je jezivo.Jebote, oni zele da budu udarna pesnica rezima.

[Budja]

Opponents to dialogue with the Muslim Brothers call them terrorists and thus advocate driving them underground. Such language is counterproductive. Muslim Brothers publicly advocate non-violent change. On a grassroots level, however, intense violence is rampant, whereby it is for the wider public unclear whether this was carried out by thugs or Islamists or a mix of both. The Muslim Brotherhood has between 500,000 and 1 million members, many engaged in peaceful activism, while others are involved in violence. It is important to distinguish between these different members and not throw political activists and militant activists in one basket.

Samo da potvrdim ovo tvoje i MancMellovo rezonovanje statusom jednog mog facebook poznanika, Egipcanina, koji radu u UN komisiji za ljudska prava:

Human rights are called as such, because they are rights that are inherent to all human beings by virtue of being ‘human’. This includes people who may be considered by their societies as criminals or sinners. To deny the human rights of any human being is tantamount to “dehumanizing” them. This is precisely what’s been happening in Egypt recently; dehumanization at every level of our society of a segment of our own with whom we have a serious disagreement over the direction our country should take. The dehumanization of the Muslim Brotherhoods continues at every level and against all levels of their organization and followers/sympathizers. Those who are dehumanizing the other may well to come up with justifications as to the criminality and inhumanity of the other, but in reality they cannot continue dehumanizing the other without losing their own humanity. It may take a paradigmatic shift in Egypt to be able to reflect on our own actions and to see how close we have gotten to losing our own humanity.

Edit: Izvinite na boldu, nece da se ugasi. Edited August 17, 2013 by Budja

[Muwan]

Robert Fisk o "podeli posla" izmedju vojske i policije: http://www.independent.co.uk/independentplus/indyplus-updates-the-police-keep-firing-the-bodies-pile-up-in-cairo-bloodbaths-are-now-a-daily-occurrence-8771232.htmlNa stranicama koje je Philby ranije linkovao može da se pročita nešto o istorijatu mržnje koja vlada izmedju policije i islamista. To mu praktično dodje kao nekakav izdvojen rat unutar još većeg haosa.

[nautilus]

Najvise prljavog posla odradjuje ova ekipa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Security_Forces. Crne ili tamno plave uniforme na onim slikama oko dzamija.

[Agni]

Najvise prljavog posla odradjuje ova ekipa http://en.wikipedia....Security_Forces. Crne ili tamno plave uniforme na onim slikama oko dzamija.

To je nesto kao zandarmerija?Btw

The Ministry of Interior of EgyptThe Ministry of the Interior directs the Central Security Forces, around 325,000 in 2007, the the Border Guard Forces, 12,000 in 2007 ; the National Police, around 500,000 ' and the Egyptian Homeland security, around 200,000 strong.

Preko milion ljudi u represivnom aparatu (bez vojske), to izgleda bas mnogo, cak i za mnogoljudnu zemlju sa autoritarnom prosloscu poput Egipta.

[nautilus]

To je nesto kao zandarmerija?

Tako nesto. Mozda je adekvatnije poredjenje sa PJPom, ali to je to. Vojni cinovi i namjena borbe protiv unutrasnjeg neprijatelja.325k :o Edited August 18, 2013 by nautilus

[Verterdegete]

Heh, pa koji crni rat za izbore. Ovo je medjustaleski sukob. Parazitski, vladajuci sloj bezbednjaka protiv onih koji ih izdrzavaju. Vitezovi vs. kmetovi all over again.

[Takeshi]

policija odradjuje samo standardne stvari:

[Lord Protector]

Riyadh Rushes to Support Egypt's New Military RulersSaudi Arabia's King Abdullah speaks to Egypt's President Mohammed Morsi on his arrival at the Royal Palace in Jeddah, July 11, 2012. (photo by REUTERS/Saudi Press Agency)By: Khaled al-Dakhil Translated from Al-Hayat (Pan Arab). اقرا المقال الأصلي باللغة العربيةIn the wake of the ouster of President Mohammed Morsi by the Egyptian army, Saudi Arabia, along with the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Kuwait, moved to provide Egypt with $12 billion in financial assistance. This is a tremendous amount of support, even by international standards, provided with remarkable speed and within a very short period of time. It is also a step characterized by political pragmatism and prompt initiative. The nature and timing of this effort has been controversial and prompted many questions as well.Does such generous support indicate that Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait back the ousting of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt? Or is it an attempt to support the army’s movement in order to spare Egypt the division and deadlock it had been experiencing? How will Doha — with its new emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani — view the position of these three Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states, a position completely contrary to its own? During the rule of former emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani, Qatar sympathized with the Brotherhood, and following the revolution, especially after that it took power, provided it with significant amounts of aid, estimated at the time in the tens of billions of dollars. Will the situation be similar under the young emir? It appears that way, especially since Al Jazeera did not alter its position during its coverage of the recent events in Egypt. On the other hand, perhaps it is too early for Qatar to change or modify its position or reposition itself. Whatever the case, the divergent opinions of Gulf countries regarding the Egyptian situation constitute yet another example of the lack of a unified foreign policy or one coordinated and harmonized by all the GCC states.One could imagine what the position of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad might be regarding the Gulf support provided to Egypt following the fall of Brotherhood rule. Assad rejoiced at the Brotherhood’s overthrow and considered it a sign of the end of political Islam in the region. Based on this, he might be expected to also rejoice at the Gulf states’ support for the new rulers in Egypt announcing the end of political Islam there. The truth, however, is the opposite.The Syrian president fears that this support will lead Egypt to adopt a position toward his regime far worse than the policy adopted by Morsi’s government and will thus increase Syria’s isolation within the Arab world. Previously, the Syrian government, especially under late president Hafez al-Assad, used to receive such aid, although to a lesser extent due to the difference in size between Egypt and Syria and the different eras and circumstances. Now, however, this aid is going to Egypt. We now know that the financial support provided to Syria did not lead to political gains [for the GCC states]. Based on this, and in light of the fluid and unstable political situation these days in Egypt, which is open to several eventualities, it is possible that the Saudi and Gulf support provided to Egypt could lead to the same results as it did in Syria.As with the Syrian regime, how will Iran — which denounced the Egyptian army’s interference and ousting of an elected president — view this Saudi-Gulf move? How can one explain the difference between Iran's position and that of Saudi Arabia regarding the ousting of President Morsi? Most likely Iran is wary of the Egyptian military establishment. It is an institution that underwent structural changes for more than 40 years, during the rule of former presidents Anwar Sadat and Hosni Mubarak, who both had strong ties with Saudi Arabia. Moreover, there was a cooperative relationship between the Egyptian military and its Saudi counterpart, and during this period the relationship between the Egyptian military establishment and the United States was consolidated.It also seems that the position of the military regarding Iran is not that much different from that of the Mubarak regime. Iran's objection to Morsi’s ouster at the hands of the Egyptian army voices this concern. Tehran’s position is not based on its objection to military intervention in politics in principle; Tehran fully and blatantly supports military rule in Syria. Furthermore, Iran exerted its best effort to obtain Egypt’s support during the rule of the Brotherhood or at least to persuade Cairo to adopt a posture less hostile toward the Syrian regime and more accepting of the Iranian vision of the required solution to the Syrian crisis.It seemed at the time that Tehran had made some progress in this direction, when Morsi submitted his initiative to set up a quartet composed of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey and Iran to address the Syrian situation. Saudi Arabia, however, quietly withdrew from the quartet after its first meeting. At that juncture, the ousting of Morsi shuffled the cards again as far as Iran was concerned. This was followed in remarkably short order by the Saudi-Gulf financial assistance, a proactive step that threatens to shift Egypt's position against Tehran’s wishes. This is how Egypt, along with Syria and the Gulf, emerged as an arena in the Saudi-Iranian conflict in the region.From this perspective, Riyadh’s position regarding the Brotherhood may not be the single or most important factor behind its rush to support the army’s move to topple Morsi. This may be true for the UAE, but not necessarily for Saudi Arabia. During the reign of Morsi, Saudi Arabia had pledged to provide Egypt with up to $3 billion in aid.In an article published in the daily Asharq Al-Awsat on Friday, July 12, Radwan al-Sayyed notes that there is a subtle yet powerful relationship between the Brotherhood and Iran. Therefore, one could argue that Riyadh’s support for the coup initiated by the Egyptian army was aimed at blocking Iran’s increasing influence in Egypt. Given, however, that Egypt is in the midst of an unstable revolutionary situation, why would Morsi’s poor political performance not be the reason that led to the clash between constitutional and revolutionary legitimacy? This is a clash that led to a political deadlock, which was exploited by the army to overthrow Morsi, especially considering that the latter was not flexible in dealing with the situation.Before the army intervened, Riyadh saw that Egypt faced the possibility of serious instability. Riyadh lost a lot with the fall of Baghdad and the collapse of Syria, and it could not afford to see Egypt fall into a state of instability, possibly for a long time. Such an event could also completely exclude Egypt from the regional balance, and thus transform it into an arena for regional and international intervention. According to Riyadh, this would lead to regional chaos, whose consequences it would have to deal with alone. In this scenario, the financial aid provided becomes less costly than the possible consequences of withholding it.It is clear that Egypt lacks a mature and professional political class. This explains the absence of solutions for every political impasse that the country has witnessed since the fall of Mubarak, not to mention the Brotherhood’s poor governance and propensity for exclusion. Add to this the emergence of the youth movement that sparked the revolution, and this has led Egypt to a revolutionary state with intractable parties. There is a failing political class that belongs to the prerevolutionary period, the youth of the revolution (with no record, leadership or leading organization) and the Brotherhood (which enjoys great popularity but lacks experience in governance).Under these circumstances, the military has emerged as the only strong and consistent institution capable of finding and imposing solutions to break deadlocks. Without this institution, and given the state in which the country now finds itself, Egypt would be in a chaotic situation similar to that characterizing Iraq under US occupation following the dissolution of the Iraqi military.Given that Iranian influence was able to infiltrate Iraq amid the political chaos and through the Shiite organizations brought about by the occupation, could not the same happen in Egypt? Thus, from the perspective of Riyadh, stability in Egypt — especially after the fall of Iraq and the situation in Syria — is no longer important for Egypt alone, but also serves Saudi Arabia and, most important, the interests of the region.Despite all of the above, the question remains: How will the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Egypt be following the Saudi initiative? Does Saudi assistance involve some risk? During the current transitional phase, the second since the revolution, and after the offers of generous financial support, Cairo’s relationship with Riyadh and the Gulf states will be stable, even marked by a high degree of friendliness and cooperation.Once the transitional phase ends, however, the relationship will not be as clear, because this phase will witness three milestones on whose results the following points will depend: the nature of the political system after the revolution, the map of alliances and balances within this system and the nature of Egypt's regional and international relations. The milestones are reaching an agreement on a new constitution, holding new parliamentary elections and holding new presidential elections, supposing the transitional phase unfolds peacefully and without lasting, as some wish, more than eight months.If this phase passes without additional deadlocks and does not last longer than expected, Egypt will be in a different state than the one before the revolution. On the other hand, Saudi Arabia, along with the rest of the GCC states, will probably return to their old selves, as the world has known them.How will this change at one end of the relationship, along with almost nonexistent change at the other end, affect the form and durability of this relationship? Why does financial assistance remain the most important mechanism in Saudi foreign policy, even at this stage? We have seen the outcome of this mechanism in Iraq, Yemen and Syria. Will we see the same outcome in Egypt as well? The answer is yet to come.

‘Israel undermining Western diplomatic efforts in Egypt’Strongman El-Sissi has been in ‘heavy’ contact with Jerusalem since Morsi’s ouster, says report in NY Times, quoting unnamed diplomatsBy Times of Israel staff August 17, 2013, 10:13 pm 67Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, the general who orchestrated the military takeover in Egypt, has been in “heavy communication” with Israeli colleagues, who have been “undercutting” Western diplomatic efforts vis-à-vis Cairo, according to unnamed Western diplomats quoted in a report published Saturday by the New York Times.El-Sissi, who ousted former Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi and replaced him with an interim government led by Hazem el-Beblawi, was said to have cultivated close ties to Israel during his tenure as head of military intelligence in Egypt.The 58-year-old general and his close circle, said the report, kept in close contact with Israel even as fierce clashes erupted on the streets of Cairo, killing 173 over the weekend.Foreign diplomats told the New York Times that they believed Israel was “undercutting” Western diplomatic efforts by telling el-Sissi that the US would not cut off its aid to Egypt, despite threats to the contrary.They said Jerusalem had undermined Washington’s efforts to forestall the violent, chaotic deterioration from democracy to autocracy in Egypt, spearheaded by the generals who had ousted Morsi – the same generals who had had close relationships with Western powers for decades and who enjoyed the support of Israel, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states who viewed them as less dangerous than their Islamist counterparts.“When Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, proposed an amendment halting military aid to Egypt, the influential American Israel Public Affairs Committee sent a letter to senators on July 31 opposing it, saying it ‘could increase instability in Egypt and undermine important U.S. interests and negatively impact our Israeli ally,’” the Times report said. “Statements from influential lawmakers echoed the letter, and the Senate defeated the measure, 86 to 13, later that day.Washington, meanwhile, tried to press Cairo for a transition back to civilian rule and freedom for Islamist leaders, but was warned again and again of the danger posed by the Muslim Brotherhood.“Their whole sales pitch to us is that Muslim Brotherhood is a group of terrorists,” the report quoted an American officer as saying.However, not even the best Western efforts – including US President Barack Obama’s decision Thursday to opt out of Egypt’s Bright Star war game — could put a stop to the bloodshed, which went on despite the diplomats’ warnings and entreaties.Egypt has been wracked by mass protests and counterprotests since the week of June 30, when opponents of Morsi took to the streets by the hundreds of thousands and called for his resignation. Following Morsi’s forced resignation, Muslim Brotherhood supporters and secular opponents of the Islamist president have been engaging in bloody clashes throughout Egypt.Egypt’s Interior Ministry said in a statement Saturday that a total of 1,004 Brotherhood members were detained in raids across the country and that weapons, bombs and ammunition were confiscated with the detainees.The Muslim Brotherhood-led anti-military coalition has called for a week of protests, further escalating unrest in the country. The coalition says that they won’t back down until it topples the government installed by the military — which overthrew Morsi on July 3.Meanwhile, hundreds remained inside the al-Fatah mosque in Cairo on Saturday morning after barricading themselves inside overnight. They shoved furniture against the doors to stop police from breaking their way in.“The million-dollar question now,” one American military officer was quoted as saying, “is where is the threshold of violence for cutting ties?”The Muslim Brotherhood group, founded in 1928, came to power a year ago when its leader Mohammed Morsi was elected in the country’s first free presidential elections. The election came after the overthrow of longtime autocratic president Hosni Mubarak.The Brotherhood rocketed to power after decades of being a banned group in Egypt. While sometimes tolerated, its leaders often faced long bouts of imprisonment.

preletači:

For Egypt’s Salafis, coup presents an unexpected dilemmaWhile apologizing to its former Brotherhood partners, Egypt’s Islamic right jumps on the revolutionary bandwagonBy Elhanan Miller July 5, 2013, 7:48 am 6Egypt’s Salafist movements, though taken by surprise by the coup in Egypt Wednesday, have quickly reorganized and jumped on the revolutionary bandwagon.Two days ahead of last Sunday’s mass opposition demonstrations, the Salafi leader of the al-Watan party, Emad Abdel-Ghafour, predicted that June 30 would go by “unnoticed.”“Although [the anti-Morsi group] Tamarod is a civilized and peaceful movement, it is not the conventional way to confirm or depose the president,” wrote Abdel-Ghafour, whose party was part of Morsi’s coalition and advised the president on social outreach.But by late Wednesday night, when the military coup was complete, al-Watan had changed its tune, posting a mildly worded statement on its Facebook page calling for national unity regardless of sectarian differences.“The general command of the armed forces must clarify the features of political and constitutional life in the coming period,” read the statement. “It must reject all forms of marginalization and targeting of one political group by another.”The Salafis’ fear of political marginalization is well founded. As the communique was released, Muslim Brotherhood leaders, including president Mohammed Morsi, were being rounded up the army, placed under house arrest, or sent to Tora Prison. But as of Thursday evening, the Salafis seemed to have been receiving different, preferential treatment.The powerful Salafi Nour party was invited to, and attended, the final meeting with the military command before the lapse of the military’s ultimatum. Ahmad Hamdi, secretary general of the Nour Party, came off as apologetic as he explained to his constituency through the Salafi media why he agreed to participate in that fateful meeting.“We swear to God that we did not conduct any deal [with the army] and did not betray our religion or our brothers. We did not do this [participate in the meeting] for any other reason but to safeguard [Egyptian blood], Sharia, and to please God almighty,” he said.Still, members of the hard-line movement were quick to defend themselves from charges of colluding in the overthrow of Morsi, whose Muslim Brotherhood affiliation makes him an ideological sibling.“We did not participate in the coup,” declared Salafi preacher Ramadhan al-Najdi. “The coup just happened.”It is too early to tell what effect the Salafi choice of realpolitik over direct confrontation with the military will have. Considering the swift crackdown against the Muslim Brotherhood and its institutions on Wednesday and Thursday, the Salafis probably had little choice on the matter. Egypt’s new interim President Adly Mansour called for the inclusion of Islamists in the new Egypt during his confirmation speech Thursday. If genuine, it is likely an invitation to the Salafis.

Edited August 18, 2013 by slow

[Takeshi]

sisi ide jako i do samog kraja.Egypt army chief vows to use full force

The Egyptian army chief Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has said he will no longer restrain his forces from confronting "attackers who want to destroy Egypt", in his first public comments since a security crackdown on anti-coup protesters that left an estimated 600 people dead.

ovako resen, definitivno ima odobrenje sa strane.otprilike, kao kada su amerikanci resili da sklone talibane iz avganistana. ostaje da se nagadja sta je u pozadini, izrael, ubistvo ambasadora u libiji ili nesto trece.

[nautilus]

Meanwhile, some 38 supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood died on Sunday in an incident at an Egyptian prison, security and legal sources said, giving conflicting versions of the deaths.The Interior Ministry did not immediately confirm the death toll, but said in a statement that a number of detainees had tried to escape from a prison on the outskirts of Cairo and had taken a police officer hostage.In subsequent clashes, the ministry said an undisclosed number of people had died from inhaling tear gas rounds. It added that the officer was freed but badly wounded.However, offering a different explanation, a legal source told Reuters that the Brotherhood followers had suffocated in the back of a crammed police van while being taken to prison.http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Muslim-Brotherhood-cancels-Cairo-marches-due-to-sniper-threat-323483

[odmor]

Turska podrzava MBBlago nama sa ovakvim igracima u regionu ..

[Indy]

BTW. U pitanju je Muslimansko bratstvo (barem ako se gleda oficijelna transliteracija).

[MancMellow]

Ma jok, "braća" :isuse:doduše, ne znam kako piše na arapskom...

Edited August 19, 2013 by MancMellow