rodna ravnopravnost

[betty]

da se vratim iz distancirane uloge u predjem u emotivnu: kime, syme, sto duze traje ova tema, ja se sve vise osecam uznemireno. kad stavljate akcenat na polozaj imigrantske zajednice (obojica biste snimili neki sasvim drugi film, zar ne?), stice se utisak da vam je stav o zenskom problemu harrasmenta jedno pa sta. znam da to nije tacno, ali zahteva stalno podsecanje kako diskusija traje. ozbiljno, mislim da ne postujete dovoljno (u ovoj raspravi) koliko je takva situacija osecanja sopstvene fizicke nemoci strasna... i koliko tog tretmana su vam sagovornice iskusile. znam da vam to nije cilj, ali postaje bolno. konkretno, deluje kao da vam je ok da se saceka sa resavanjem tog problema dok se problem imigrantske zajednice ne resi iz korena (dakle, ne uskoro). opet, ovo prica moja uznemirenost, ne tvrdim da vam je to namera, samo zelim da vam ukazem na emocije koje prate diskusiju a koje nisu vidljive preko foruma.

[kgmr]

inace uzasno je kako engleski povuce coveka. ja bih inace rekao postvarenje zene. ne znam da li je to ispravno.

reifikacija -_-nisam pogledala film, ne mogu da se uključim. koliko traje?

[Turnbull]

Ja zaista nigde nisam rekao ništa slično, štaviše:

Pre svega treba zaštiti te žene i učiniti da se osećaju bezbedno na ulici, samo ne vidim da je to dugoročno moguće postići samo policijskom represijom.

Rasprava je o filmu, i o tome kako film predstavlja jedan ozbiljan problem. Po mom mišljenju, reduktivno i nehotice rasistički.

[Turnbull]

reifikacija -_-nisam pogledala film, ne mogu da se uključim. koliko traje?

Dvadesetak minuta.

[kim_philby]

reifikacija -_-nisam pogledala film, ne mogu da se uključim. koliko traje?

pa rekao bih ja i reifikacija ali to je bas onako marksisticki :P25 minuta. piece of cake.@betty: meni je zao sto si tako zakljucila. ne znam kako da ti odgovorim a da se ne pravdam. stavise ovo je dobar breaking point (point break) za mene da izadjem iz rasprave.samo jos jednom da ponovim: ne verujem u kaznenu politiku kao zalog dobrih odnosa u jednoj zajednici. verujem da je tragicno kada se dve ugrozene grupe nalaze u ovakvom ideoloskom klincu kome se ne nazire razresenje. verujem da mora da postoji politika koja ce omoguciti stvaranje tla na kojem obe ove grupe mogu da artikulisu zahteve za sopstvenom emancipacijom. Edited August 7, 2012 by kim_philby

[kgmr]

marksistički, pa ja to za tebeajde, dajte link. jutros sam gledala http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1586752/ machine gun preacher, sad sam u fazi opsesije afrikom i derivatima. bela žena mora imati hobija.u svakom slučaju, prečka za rasizam mi je danas dosta visoko podignuta

[Turnbull]

Nisam znao đe ovo da metnem, pa aj ovde:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvf6KZ-Kr3gFilm počinje na 7:45

[Turnbull]

Ekipa sa Gates of Vienna doing their we-told-you-so dance:

“It seems as if the clock is turned back 100 years. I was really shocked how demeaning and sexist these men did. Do they really have no daughters or wives or sisters for whom they have respect? Or do they just behave this way against me? Against the Western white woman? Am I naïve in that case? Because I still believe in multicultural Brussels,” said Peeters in the film.Yes, Miss Peeters, you are naïve, to put it politely, indoctrinated by a socialist education system, where the truth is called a lie or a hate crime. Where the naïve young minds are molded into new universal socialist mocha men-sheep, stripped of any critical or dissident thought. Joseph Stalin said, “Who owns the youth, owns the future.” This is the main reason why socialists always want to have the education portfolio.Miss Peeters comes to the upsetting realization that “Sofie’s World” — and the perception of reality in which she was brainwashed — does not correspond exactly with reality. That the Marxist indoctrination has done its work is also proven by her graduation project. A seemingly objective documentary, it was even pathetic to hear at the end of the film the despair about the blessings of a multicultural society, but appearances are deceiving. There was a Muslima (with scarf) shown, who apparently suffers from ‘sexism’, this to cover up the predominantly anti-white racism/sexism. “It does not come with Islam, I think, I think it is with them purely cultural,” says the Muslima. And culture is relative, right?However, the misogynistic sides of the culture-enrichers are not related to culture or skin color, but to the religion of peace. Because all infidel woman or those who do not wear an Islamic headscarf are regarded and treated as kafir whores. The women of the infidels are just booty and so they are sex slaves. Well, it’s their culture, it’s all relative, so get used to it. If it is said that they are mostly men from ethnic minorities, we go and nuance and downplay this directly: “They are not all like this, but the few ruin it for the group.” This record and song we have known for decades. Yet, it is still the Muslim community which continues to cause problems. Or have you noticed any rise in crime rates among Tibetan Buddhists in Brussels?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Syme

[Indy]

u svakom slucaju, mislim da traziti od zena da se istrpe dok se ne ispeglaju drugi problemi malo preskupa valuta za potkusurivanje i slazem se sa betty da je institucionalna intervencija neophodna.

Mozda kampanja medju "njima" samima moze da pomogne, da ne kazem grassroots pokret za bolji tretman zena. Ne znam koliko je ovo grassroots, ali povremeno poneka predstavnica nastupi u javnosti sa pametnom izjavom, koja nadam se posebno odjekne medju pripadnicima (muskim) iste zajednice.Premda ne bih nuzno u sve ovo uvlacio Marksa (zato sto ne poznajem coveka, izmedju ostalog), meni je ocito u vezi ovoga sto kim pise, da je tim momcima na koje ovde mislimo izmaknut tepih ispod nogu. Njihova tradicija bi ih - da nije ucinjena redundantnom u danasnjem svetu - smestila tamo gde treba da budu. A sad se niko ne bavi time sta i gde sa njima, vec se podrazumeva da ce oni participirati u utakmici zapadnog belog coveka, sto bi valjda kim zvao kapitalizmom. Ja to vise gledam kao prevagu kompetitivnosti nad kooperacijom/zajednicarenjem. Mlad covek iz te zajednice je kroz stotine godina "znao" svoje mesto samim tim sto je u toj zajednici, a to vise nije slucaj.Da nikako ne bude da mislim da zene bilo sta nepristojno treba da trpe. I meni takvo ponasanje daje transfer neprijatnosti (bece oci i gestikuliraju neki tamo na moju zenu pored mene zivog... ponasanje provokativno, to say the least. Ne da isto nisam doziveo u nas, mind you).(mi ovde imamo slicnu situaciju sa Aboridzinima, koji ispadaju po defaultu "krivi" zato sto ne umeju da budu dobri belci i Englezi. Oni namerno to rade, hehe, a mogli bi da budu Englezi, samo da se malo vise potrude).

[djili]

...nego jedan stariji zizek

meni su ove situacije drugacije. ja nikad nisam razlog za haos oko katrine i sadasnji nivo kriminala u new orleansu nalazila u crncima nego u siromastvu. mozda zato sto lopovi ne diskriminiraju neko kradu od koga stignu, dok su junaci filma izabrali konkretnu grupu na kojoj ce da istresu svoje frustracije. da su zrtve kinezi, ili jevreji, ili homoseksualci, da li bismo i onda trazili da prvo pronadju i rijese dublje drustvene probleme pa tek onda da se bave svojim.

[Indy]

Mislim da je odlicna fora da se s tom frustracijom, tj. ovom vrstom prekrsaja, deal-uje u okviru same te zajednice, pre nego sto se uposle institucije sistema (ili moze i paralelno). Nesto slicno znam da postoji na Novom Zelandu, gde Maori imaju svoje "interne", plemenske, nacine za hendlovanje pocinitelja petty kriminala. I drzava im cesto prepusti da to rade sami kako znaju i umeju, mislim da to dosta funkcionise (koliko mi je poznato, nisam ekspert za te stvari, a i davno sam jos napustio NZ).Evo nadjoh na brzinu nesto, mozda i nije najbolji izvor, ali nemam sad vremena. Evo fragmenta ispod, a ovde je i link. (NB - Pakeha su belci... pa cak i moja varijacija belog coveka :D.) EDIT. Jos prevoda: Aotearoa je Novi Zeland, a tapu je naravno tabu.

What's wrong with one law for all?The law embodies and protects cultural values. One law for all stacks up well from a monocultural Pakeha point of view. It is not convincing from a Maori point of view because law is never culturally neutral. All law embodies and protects a particular culture's values.The argument for one law for all in Aotearoa assumes our law incorporates universal notions of justice.Moana Jackson reminds us that those ideals as applied to law here, are not so much universal, as the product of a particular culture.He points out that,"When the analysis of law is founded in the belief that 'one law for all' means 'one process for all' rather than 'one resultant justice for all', the debate becomes confined by monocultural strangulation. "The law as an expression of culturally formed ideology.On the surface, Pakeha criminal law and its processes of enforcement, are seen to represent the community's desire for peace, good order and protection from harm.But law is always political, and criminal law can be seen to be an instrument of a capitalist ideology. When law defines as unacceptable those acts which directly threaten the economic status quo, or is based on the direct protection of property interest, it reflects the ethos and ideology of capitalism.The law as a powerful and profound cultural statement. Ideologies do not develop in a vacuum. They are shaped by the values of a particular culture.Criminal law in this country is the product of values distilled from British and Western history, so it reflects notions of individual rather than collective liability. Maori cultural values are simply not reflected in our criminal law.Pakeha law is monocultural.The definitions which underlie Pakeha law are distinctly monocultural, rejecting any Maori perspective of criminality.They reaffirm the view that 'one law for al1' means one Pakeha law for all. Maori participation in the process of legal definition is rejected and the notion of Maori law dismissed as having no validity.Did Maori have their own system of law and justice?Responsibility to the wider community.For over a thousand years Maori had their own criminal justice system operating in Aotearoa. This pre-European institution was based on social responsibilities that linked people to their wider community.Actions that were unacceptable, known as hara, were well understood. A method for dealing with offenders was in place.Those who committed hare or crimes were subject to the sanction of law. At the heart of this system was the recognition that everybody had a responsibility to the wider community. Important too, was the belief that all people had a tapu which was not to be abused by others.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Indy

[Roger Sanchez]

Jel to ovaj namjerno šutnuo granatu među žene?

"Granatu su zatim doneli na mesto rada svoje grupe, gde su je razmenjivali sa kadetima, Stefanom Milosavljevićem i sada pokojnim Filipom Milojevićem, da bi u jednom trenutku Stefan Milosavljević granatu spustio na zemlju kada im je prišao kadet Karišik Milan", precizirao je Vasić.Utvrđeno je da je kadet Karišik nogom šutnuo granatu koja je odletela tri do četiri metra, nakon čega je usledila eksplozija."Tom prilikom su od gelera nastalih rasprskavanjem tela projektila na licu mesta smrtno stradali Filip Milojević i Milina Miletić, dok su kadetkinje Tanja Milošević i Mirjana Veličković zadobile teške telesne povrede, a kadeti Jelena Obradović i Slobodan Petrović lake telesne povrede", naveo je zamenik tužioca.

[pacey defender]

Vidim da je Tipsarević na tviteru pisao da ne treba izjednačiti nagradni fond za žene i muškarce na US Openu. Obrazloženje je - žene igraju na dva osvojena seta a muškarci na tri, dakle, ne bi bilo fer jednakim iznosom nagraditi nejednak napor.Ima smisla. A vidim da je krenula histerija. Janko šovinista ovo ono.

[rajka]

Vidim da je Tipsarević na tviteru pisao da ne treba izjednačiti nagradni fond za žene i muškarce na US Openu. Obrazloženje je - žene igraju na dva osvojena seta a muškarci na tri, dakle, ne bi bilo fer jednakim iznosom nagraditi nejednak napor.Ima smisla.A vidim da je krenula histerija. Janko šovinista ovo ono.

sa filozofskom aspekta, ima smisla ako verujes da se nagradjuje napor. ja mislim da se nagradjuje pobeda, a da je pobeda zene, jednako vazna kao pobeda muskarca. sa ekonomskog, nisam sigurna da zene danas nisu sposobne da zarade barem koliko muskarci (u smislu privlacenja sponzora i gledalaca). Edited September 4, 2012 by rajka

[eoten]

mislim da je i nadal je mrmljao nešto pre par godina, tipsarević bi trebalo da zna bolje.nagrade u tenisu treba da budu jednake tamo gde se igra isti broj setova do pobede.