Ђускање са змајовима

[omiljeni]

Pa ja ti pričam već 2-3 sezone serije da cock merchants nisu ništa gori od Martina.

 

Meni je jedino logično objašnjenje to da je Bolton uspeo da sačuva većinu vojske jer je plan unapred bio da se povlače, pa da tu nije bilo neke velike panike već da su to radili tako da imaju minimalne gubitke.

I možda Tywin nije hteo da ih juri skroz do Necka jer je saznao za Jaimea i razbijanje opsade Riverruna, pa je verovatno shvatio da je potencijalno ugrožen i Castely Rock (a možda čak i Kings Landing) te da se zbog toga nesme udaljavati previše na sever i da mu je bolje da se povuče do Harrenhala odakle može reagovati na Starkove poteze. 

 

btw Bolton Glovera šalje u napad na Duskendale u 3. knjizi.

[Weenie Pooh]

Ali Tywin je valjda tokom bitke mogao da vidi koliko ljudi Bolton ima sa sobom bolje nego ti, ja, ili Catelyn Stark. Ako je video da je tu ogromna većina Robove vojske, i da se posle poraza nalaze u ekstremno nepovoljnom položaju, nema nikakvog smisla da bi ih pustio da se povuku jer se uplašio da će Rob sa celih 4,500 ljudi da odjaše za Casterly Rock. Da je Tywin iskoristio priliku i razjebao Boltona sa praktično celom severnjačkom vojskom, Rob bi jedino mogao da se zatvori u Riverrun, čeka da dođu po njega, i onda bend the knee. Nikakvih "poteza" tu ne bi ni moglo da bude da Tywin nije pustio da Bolton odvuče svu tu vojsku do Roba.

 

Zato je meni taj scenario krajnje neubedljiv, i zato sam sklon da poverujem da je severnjačka vojska bila podeljena u sasvim drugoj razmeri - da se oni procenti sa wiki odnose na ljude pod Starkovom ličnom komandom koje je odlučio da dodeli Boltonu simbolično, da ne ispadne kao da čuva svoje ljudstvo a svog bannermana šalje da se samoubije. Rob je morao da zadrži na svojoj strani ozbiljan broj ljudi (ne svojih, ali od ostalih severnjačkih kuća) da bi Tywin navrat-nanos odjurio u njegovom pravcu čim je čuo da se zajebao u proceni.

[omiljeni]

Ček, ti misliš da je Stark imao 60.000 ljudi koje je podelio tako da jedna grupa doživi težak poraz, umesto da sa svih 60k navali na Tywina, sravni ga sa zemljom i završi rar? To ni Martin ne bi mogao smisliti :D

 

Brojke koje smo ti rekli su sigurno & 100% tačne. Pročitaj tih par chaptera ako nisi siguran.

 

Kako je Bolton spasao 2/3 vojske i šta je Tywin tu radio...to su pitanja za Martina.

HBO je to dosta elegantnije odradio. Nema brojeva, nema mapa, nema bespotrebnih detalja, pa nema ni ovakvih gluposti kao kod Martina.

Stoga, Cock Merchant - Debeli gmaz 1:0   

[Weenie Pooh]

Idi, sad očekuješ da se sećam i Lanisterskih brojeva odnekud. Ali nema sumnje da su imali više, iako su i oni premudro podelili vojsku između tate i sina.

 

Ne znam kako misliš da su HBO to odradili bez brojeva, nemam snage da tražim na YT ali nemam ni sumnje da je Rob u jednoj od beskrajnih scena sa Unom Čaplin kmečao o ljudima koje je poslao da izginu... Jedna razlika je bila u tome što ih je u seriji poslao svestan da nemaju šanse, u najboljem "zbogom prvi nerođeni sine" maniru. (Boltona nije bilo sa njima.) Dok je u knjizi kao postojala neka neizvesnost.

 

Cock Merchants : bilo ko = -653 : x

Edited May 13, 2016 by Weenie Pooh

[omiljeni]

Piše sve na onom tvom wiki linku. Tywin imao 20.000 ljudi.

[hazard]

Smarate instalirajte Total War: Westeros pa onda brojite vojnike, razdaljinu i smisljajte taktiku i strategiju

[Ayatollah]

Smarate instalirajte Total War: Westeros pa onda brojite vojnike, razdaljinu i smisljajte taktiku i strategiju

 

Crusader Kings 2 - A Song of Ice and Fire je mnogo bolji. Napravio Ghiscari imperiju sa Deneris, preuzeo vlast na Severu sa Ryswell kućom, itd.

[Weenie Pooh]

Ja sam to svojevremeno probao i nisam uspeo da instaliram mod :(

[hazard]

Za sta, TW ili CK?

 

Ako je TW u pitanju, sibni PM, ja sam uspeo da na Steam verziju instaliram i Westeros mod i GoT submod (ako imas ,,obicnu" verziju koja nije sa Steam-a, onda je jos lakse).

[Weenie Pooh]

CK2, a sama igra me nije ni toliko zanimala, skinuo sam je zbog moda, kad ono...

[Ayatollah]

Dobar je i vanila CK2, evo sa Vlastimirovićima sam napravio Srbiju sve do Beča i Bratislave u 11. veku.

 

SoIaF je baš dobar mod, koji, doduše, nije uspeo da ispegla neke od gluposti koje su krasile originalnu verziju. Moja glavna zamerka je bila potpuno nerealno sklapanje brakova, koje je omogućavalo opskurno nasleđivanje, pa je tako francuski kralj nasleđivao provincije na Kavkazu, vikinške vođe ženile etiopske princeze i slično. Ovde ima istih gluposti, pa tako gospodari sa Letnjih ostrva žene divljanske princeze, itd. Religija isto nije baš skroz OK, previše se lako konvertuje - ja sam preveo Meereen u Faith of Seven posle nekog vremena, u vanili imaš pravoslavnu Belgiju i slično. No, van toga je igra stvarno sjajna.

 

EDIT: Ne sećam se da sam imao neke probleme pri instalaciji, čak ni sa narodnom verzijom igre.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Ayatollah

[goofs]

Valjda pod hajpom serije, čitam neke fan teorije po netu, većinu sam ih znao, no neke su mi nove. Zanimljivo mi, ali isto tako bojim se da nam je serija pokvarila neke od ovih.

 

• The Grand Northern Conspiracy
• R+L=J
• The 'Daenerys & Jon are going mad' theories
• The Grand Tyrell Conspiracy
• The Grand Maester Conspiracy
• Pink Letter Mystery

 

Konkretno recimo za "Pink Letter Mystery" - teorija veli da ovo pismo koje je Džon sad dobio (i u seriji) nije poslao Remzi, nego neko drugi, tipa Stanis/Aša/Mens Rajder/Melisandra itd. Svaka ideja ima svoje dosta jako "za" ali i protiv argumente, nisu samo puko lupetanje, plus što je u knjizi Ruz još uvek živ i glavni, tako da Remzi ne bi smeo da deluje po svom nahođenju, mada nije kao da ga je to uvek sprečavalo.

 

Ako se prebacimo u HBO-realm, jedini ko bi, umesto Remzija, mogao da pošalje onako nešto je Smoldžon Umber, pod pretpostavkom da je i "The Grand Northern Conspiracy" stvarna, i da su Umberi deo toga. U tom slučaju on valjda traži da izazove sukob koji će Remziju biti distrakcija, i da mu onda zabode nož u ledja i anlišuje Šugavka na Boltone. No, nažalost, zbog nekih future spoilera, za koje ne znam da li su provereni, ali ako jesu čini mi se da to neće biti slučaj, i da je Umber na kraju ispao samo seronja. Ko zna, videćemo. 

[Weenie Pooh]

Nešto od toga jedva da se može nazvati teorijama. Npr. taj Grand Northern Conspiracy je pompezno ime za prilično banalno opažanje - da većina severnjačkih porodica nije previše srećna Boltonom i da če ga trpeti samo do prve prilike da ga svrgnu. Izuzetak su oni koji su zahvaljujući Boltonima postali šefovi svojih kuća - matori Arnolf Karstark, valjda i Whoresbane Umber, itd. Debeli Manderly, oba Glovera, i stara Mormontica su očigledni Stark lojalisti, ali verujem da nisu jedini. 

 

R+L=J je praktično potvrđeno, skoro kao CLEGANEBOWL, a ljudi koji misle da je "previše očigledno" ne razumeju koliko se masovno mozga tokom godina i godina i godina čekanja. Zaključak do kog se kolektivno dođe posle decenije+ razmena mišljenja ne može da bude previše očigledan.

 

Ovo da Dany i Jon skreću s uma nisam siguran kako tačno glasi, ali ne deluje mi previše koherentno - naravno da se menjaju pod pritiskom zapleta, to se zove character arc. 

 

Grand Tyrell Conspiracy nemam pojma šta je a i ne zanima me previše - Tyrells su mahom plot device koji je bio tu da zamajava Lanistere dok se radnja kreće, jedva da smo upoznali njihove glavne igrače.

 

Grand Maester Conspiracy je zanimljiva stvar ali direktno opisana u samom tekstu, nije bila potrebna nikakva dedukcija ako nam Marwyn the Mage otvoreno kaže da su meštri trovali zmajeve i spletkare da bi pomerili zeitgeist u pravcu racionalizma. Sumnjam da će biti išta više od backdrop za glavnu radnju, ne priliči Citadeli da krene direktno da utiče na razvoj događaja.

 

Pink Letter Mystery je isfabrikovana glupost. Zaludni fanovi izmišljaju nepotrebne komplikacije - pismo je poslao Ramsey Bolton, lagao je samo da je Stannis poražen ali za sve ostalo je bio iskren, verovatno stvarno misli da su mu žena i Reek nekako pobegli na Zid, ma koliko neosnovano to bilo. (Ramsey u knjizi nije baš the sharpest tool in the box.) Moguće da će njegova opsesija Rikom spasti Stannisa - ako sin Bolton povede deo ljudstva severno, tati Boltonu će ostati manje njih da drži Winterfell (a većina njih mu uopšte i nije lojalna).

[Pečorin]

Mene zanima ko je Coldhands :D

[arheolog1981]

Juče je Martin na Baltikonu čitao novo poglavlje iz Vetrova Zime... Aeron I. Fantastično, ko će više dočekati da završi knjigu :)

 

CHAPTER SUMMARY
“Alone in the belly of the beast. Tide ebbing and flowing as high as his genitals. Feet in water swollen as big as hams.” Mutes robbed Aeron of his clothes, he’s beaten and chained.  Saltwater hurts his wounds.  Toes are getting supper puffy and rats biting feet.
“There was a dungeon before this, then a ship, the Silence.” By the saltwater, in a dungeon
Moved from another dungeon on the Silence
Leering face of the moon, reminds him of Euron.
Chains are short and bind Aeron to the wall
He dreams of a “scream of a rusted hinge”
“Light of the lantern so seldom it hurt his eyes.”
Describes food. Had worms in it. Ate it anyway and was grateful. Then retched it up.
The man who brought food was dark, grim, MUTE (Euron took this tongue).
Sometimes, Euron visited him, aboard the Silence, his ship.
Silver cups, poured wine. He wore a shirt of iron scale, a red silk cloak, a red patch over his eye, his lips were blue.
Euron is sailing south--for conquest, plunder, and dragons.
Aeron: what do you ask of me.
Euron: I am your king. Left Eric Ironmaker in charge of Pike, gave him the hand of Asha to seal the deal. You were preaching against me, so I took you with me.
Euron took Aeron so Aeron wouldn’t be able to undermine Erik  Ironmaker’s rule of the Iron Islands
Aeron forced to drink Shade of the Evening
It wasn’t wine, it was thick, viscous, tasted changed with every sip. Forced it down his throat. The “Wine of the Warlocks.”
Euron: “There’s more truth in it than all the gods on earth.”
If I had the tongue of everyone who had cursed me I could make a cloak of them.
“Your god will come for you tonight - some god, at least.”
In his dream, creak of the rusted hinge. Urri was long deal, black stinking maggot arms. Aeron asks him, “What lies below the sea?”

Dream
“Worms await you, Aeron.” And then it was not Urri, but Euron Bloodeye - sitting upon a throne of black skulls. Dwarfs attending him, bleeding star, the world will broken and remade. A horn blew and summoned dragons and krakens and sphinxes. “I am your king, I am your god.”
Aeron thinks no godless man may sit the seastone chair.
Damphair dreams of Urri (Urrigon Greyjoy)
Urri says worms await the Damphair in the dreams
Euron’s face is sloughed off, and Aeron can see Euron’s one bloody eye, black as onyx
He says the bleeding star bespoke the end
Euron on a throne of skulls and dwarfs are running around.  (Seems vaguely similar to the dwarfs Dany see is in House of Undying.)
Blows a horn and sphinxes and other creatures bow to him
“Euron says, ‘Look and see what I am seated on.’”
Skull throne replaced by Iron Throne with all the different gods impaled on it
The seven hung around him, the goat, the pale child Bakkalon (thanks /u/tjtjjtjt), the butterfly god, the red god. And the drowned god, with crabs, and sea water dripping from his hair.
FLASHBACK
The Kingsmoot was the last thing he could remember.
Euron’s blaspheming would bring the down the wrath of the drowned god. God has raised him up but god will bring him down. Men had raised him, who were foolish and swayed by gold.
The Common folk will raise him down.
Flashback to Aeron walked into waves after the kingsmoot
“He wanted no company but god.”
Black waves, white foam, icy water breaking over his head.
Could hear the creak of the longships, wind in the lines.
Heard his gods calling him to battle
Heard Drowned God say Euron cannot be king--king should be…[long pause] he doesn’t say
Aeron thinks Victarion should have married Asha and put their strength together to win.  Asha was always Aeron’s favorite “and had a heart of a king but cursed by being given a women’s body”
“The drowned god came to him.“Aeron, good and faithful servant tell ??. The drowned god did not raise him up. The seastone chair should belong to… not Victarion, not Asha (she was cursed by a woman’s body). She should have gone for Victarion. Asha should have been married to Victarion. They used to have a salt king and a rock king, and they could again.”
Then the mutes came and took him, knocked him out. Then he was imprisoned, had a favor, tasted blood. He prayed, thinks that god is testing him. Mutes brought him food, etc.



Another flashback:  Aeron sees a woman and asks to be set free-- she does free him but feeds him
Aeron is held in Oakenshield of the Shield Isles
Falia Flowers, bastard of Lord Humfrey Hewett of Oakenshield; says she is to be Euron’s salt wife, will be kin to Aeron through Euron
She was gifted many luxuries by Euron
Real heartbreaking story.  Rubs her belly saying “i will give him so many sons.”
Aeron: Woman-run-he will hurt you. He will kill you.
Falia: Silly, he is my love. Gives her clothes and jewels, Crows eye calls them rags and rocks. That’s why men like him because he doesn’t keep treasure for himself.I am going to give him sons. He has sons, but he says mine will be before them.
Aeron: Give a message to Victarion to rescue me.
Falia: Victarion has sailed for Dany. She will be his rock wife. We will be like sisters.
Aeron: Victarion was gone, half a world away or dead. Put not faith in man. Prayed for death.
Euron takes little of the plunder in general.  Makes people loyal.  Most captains take the lion’s share of the loot.
Made Falia’s sisters serve her naked as “revenge”
Euron has gone east with all of his ships to get Dany to be his rock wife
“The two of us will be close as sisters,” Falya says.
Aeron prays to the Drowned God to die
Aeron dragged up the stairs to the Silence, and Euron has a dagger
Euron: “God has forsaken you. I taught you to pray when we were children and I would visit your bedroom. When you prayed, was it that I would choose you, or pass you buy. Pray to me to end your life.”
Aeron: Accursed is the kinslayer
Euron used to visit Aeron and Urri in their room as boys
Euron admits to killing his brothers to Aeron: Harlon who had greyscale, Robin who was their half-brother.  
From Feast, “The Prophet” Chapter: “a sickly idiot boy named Robin, the brother best forgotten.”
Aeron is surprised that Harlon was murdered. He couldn’t move from the greyscale, he had mouth up from the greyscale.  Euron just pinched his nose and looked him in the eye as the life went out of him.  “If the gods didn’t curse me for killing those brothers, they won’t curse me for killing you.”  (note this happens when he was a kid.
Admits to killing Balon, but says it was not his hand

When Aeron is imprisoned again, he is joined by priests of other religions
Priest of the greenlands.
Priest of R’hllor-Man with burned face and arms
Warlocks, one without legs (?!) and and he keeps shouting “Pree” as he hangs.  He assumes “pree” is the name of the demon that he worshiped.
Aeron questions in his mind why Euron is collecting priests
Septons make soft noises but their tongues are likely cut out
When Aeron sees Euron again, his lips are so blue that they are almost black
Wears an iron crown instead of driftwood, that is covered with shark teeth
Gave away shields--”a good king is open-handed”
Called them fools.  I will be remembered for the glory of taking them.  If they lose, loss belongs to those who took the gifts so eagerly.

Euron forces more Shade of the Evening down Aeron’s throat
Dreams
Saw longships burning
Euron on Iron throne, changed into a kraken-like figure with tentacles
Accompanied by a long, tall terrible woman, shadowed, with hands of white fire, standing next to him
Male and female dwarfs are running around naked and copulating and fighting
Euron and the woman laugh
Aeron is then dragged upstairs
Dragged into a torchlit gallery with another amount of corpses hanging
Captors are drinking
Rogen Saltbeard
Red Oarsman
Left-hand Lucas Codd
The corpses belong to the people of the Arbor
“Words are wind but blood is power”
Redwyne fleet is creeping to the Arbor, where Euron’s crew is located
Leyton Hightower is trying to get the Greyjoy fleet from the rear.
The men joke about Aeron apparently knowing what it is like to be taken from the rear (confirming the molestation from Euron)
When Aeron is to be brought back up, he hears a familiar voice that says to hurry because Euron is impatient
Sees Euron clad in black scale armor, edged in red-gold
The armor has runes and glyphs in the steel--the armor is Valyrian steel
Euron is the only one who owns a suit of Valyrian steel
Hasn’t been seen since the doom 400 years ago.  Even then would have cost a kingdom.
Aeron says to himself that Euron has been to Valyria. No wonder he is mad
Euron is binding the priests to the prows of the ships
When Aeron is brought out he sees Goodbrother banner, the Wynch banner and Euron’s new banner, which is a red eye with a black pupil under an iron crown supported by two crows
Aeron is bound to the prow of the Silence
As they are sailing away, he sees the castle above them burning
Out at sea, Euron said he had a gift for Euron
2 of Euron’s bastards brought out a woman, pregnant and crying: It is Falya Flowers
She has no tongue
She is tied to the other side of the prow
Last line of Aeron’s: “He licked his lips and tasted salt.”