Coronavirus Covid-19 - opšta tema

[vememah]

Pa normalno, to je jebena fondacija, sigurno ne baca kockice da odluči kojim projektima da udeli lovu, već ima ljude koji se u to razumeju pa mu kažu šta zaista ima smisla, a šta ne.

[Roger Sanchez]

To što ovaj virus ne ubije svakog trećeg pa se u njega može ''sumnjati'' dotuć će nas kao civilizaciju više nego kad bi ubio svakog trećeg

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Roger Sanchez

[Tsai]

Au je, a ja u Amsterdamu trenutno 

Javljam ako se prelije 

[vememah]

 

[I*m with the pilots]

Quote

A što se tiče vakcinacije imam drugačije mišljenje.Svašta sam pročitala i čula o vakcinisanima i vakcinama, nije mi svejedno da primim nešto što ne znam ni da li je ispitano.U Srbiji moja sestra ima drugaricu koja radi u Kovid bolnici i rekla je da je bolnica puna vakcinisanih i da ima teških i smrtnih slučajeva od korone ,da mnogo manje ima obolelih nevakcinisanih.Poslala mi je čak i prepisku sa njom ,tako da joj verujem ,i ja je poznajem ne bi žena izmišljala takve stvari a ni ona nije vakcinisana.Neće zato što ti je bukvalno isto

a možda je i gore ako primiš vakcinu i imaš posle komplikacije .

Ja nisam za vakcinisanje,nemam ništa protiv ljudi koji se odluče da se vakcinišu,svako ima svoj izbor.Ja za sada neću da pristanem na to sem ako ne budem imala izbora pa budem uslovljena da moram.A istina je strah me je posto ne znam u šta da verujem,raznih priča ima a ne mogu da ne pročitam i ne čujem šta se dogadja.Samo se nadam da će i to prestati i da možemo normalno da živimo.

 

 

Mi smo definitivno iz razlicitih univerzuma.

Nadam se da ce i Nemacka pratiti stope Austrijanaca, pa da se i rodjaci ostvari zelja.

 

Ovaj forum, tj. debela vecina aktivnih clanova na njemu su kao ostrvo spasa razuma na internetu, pored mog kruga prijatelja (sa rodbinom je vec kriza). Zalosno.

[Sandradjer]

5 hours ago, I*m with the pilots said:

 

 

Ovaj forum, tj. debela vecina aktivnih clanova na njemu su kao ostrvo spasa razuma na internetu, pored mog kruga prijatelja (sa rodbinom je vec kriza). Zalosno.

Delim misljenje. To je i razlog zasto sam se registrovala. U pocetku sam samo citala. Ne zalite vreme ako je potrebno ponoviti i 100 puta iste price, ima sigurno puno ljudi koji samo citaju i informisu se 

[Sandradjer]

6 hours ago, Roger Sanchez said:

To što ovaj virus ne ubije svakog trećeg pa se u njega može ''sumnjati'' dotuć će nas kao civilizaciju više nego kad bi ubio svakog trećeg

Lepo receno. Zvuci neverovatno, ali to se desava 

[burekdzija]

8 hours ago, mackenzie said:

Zaboravio sam, kad se ono Bill prešaltao na biologiju. Valjda ima neki PhD iz ove oblasti jer ipak je ovo GLOBALNO BITNA tema da je on komentariše i evo već 2 godine je neko PR lice ove pandemije. Expert? Stručnjak? Zašto njemu da vjerujem a ne nekom random liku na twitteru.

Ne obracam se direktno tebi, samo repliciram na napisano: kad bi ljudi barem jednako “verovali” Bil Gejtsu kao sto kriticno prate random lika na tviteru, gde bi nam bio kraj…

[vememah]

Niz o situaciji u Austriji:

Quote

Dr. Lisa Iannattone
8h, 16 tweets, 3 min read

I think many of us are wondering what in the world went wrong in Austria? Don’t they have free rapid tests and N95 (FFP2) level masks? What explains the skyrocketing cases? Follow along for some answers from an Austrian.

TLDR: 8 of 9 states dropped their mask mandates. 🤦🏻‍♀️

 

“First, Austria is a federal republic and while most of the legislative and executive power lies with the federal government, health and healthcare is unfortunately being administered and legislated upon by the 9 states, the Bundesländer. The City of Vienna is also a Bundesland.” 
“Seven out of nine Bundesländer have a Conservative governor, the remaining two, Burgenland and Vienna, are Social Democrat. The PM is also from the Conservatives. The PM declared the pandemic over in July, because he didn't bother to listen to the experts,” 
“and he wanted nice messages that framed him as the saviour of the country, and also this, like everything else in Austria, was done with "What can we do to get the tourists to come to us" in mind. Subsequently, eight of the nine states dropped their mask mandates.” 
Getting strong Alberta vibes. 
“Vienna didn't. They still had masks in supermarkets and on public transport and went back to FFP2 masks as soon as cases started to surge. Vienna also has a widely available PCR test system, the "everyone gargles" program…” 
“…under which you can pick up up to 8 test kits per week, for free, gargle with saline solution at home, drop them off at a supermarket and get the result in less than 24 hours.” 
“Vienna reintroduced negative tests as a requirement for nightclubs in July, and made lots and lots of efforts to get people vaccinated, including a "vaccine boat" that went up and down the Danube River.”

This sounds like a fun way to get vaccinated tbh 🛥 
Meanwhile “In another state, Oberösterreich, the second worst affected, they had regional elections in September. The government wanted to win reelection so it dgaf about reintroducing mandatory masks or even mentioning the pandemic until after they had been voted back in.” 
“Also: our PM got caught in a corruption scandal in September and had to step down. He's now only a MP and he's still very active behind the scenes. He put pressure on the remaining Conservative ministers…” 
“…to keep his message "everyone who's vaccinated will not be affected by any more restrictions" up and block calls for a lockdown (what passes for lockdown over here is ridiculous), until triages had been introduced in the two worst affected states, earlier this week.” 
Back to Vienna: “The Vienna government kept its messaging concise and to the point, telling people during summer that Covid isn't over, stay vigilant, wear a mask and get tested.” 
“And that's how the biggest city in the country is currently the least affected place.” 🔥🔥🔥

Wild. The mask wars strike again. 
Bonus round:

“Oh and one thing I forgot, we have a far right party, FPO, that gets roughly 20-25% of the vote. They have been openly antivaxx and anti everything. And their leader advises taking ivermectin.” 
Bonus round 2 because why stop at Ivermectin when you can liken vaccination to rape? 🤯

Direct (Google translate) quote:
The rule in the workplace amounts to a "vaccination rape"

https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000130909556/wurmmittel-statt-impfvergewaltigungen-der-plan-b-von-herbert-kickl

 

So mystery of Austria solved. No mystery at all actually. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. In this case a lockdown.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1461936388815863811.html

Edited November 20, 2021 by vememah

[duda]

18 hours ago, I*m with the pilots said:

 

Mi smo definitivno iz razlicitih univerzuma.

Izvini, nisam u toku. Koga si citirala ?

[vememah]

Svoju rođaku, valjda, piše u sledećoj rečenici.

[vememah]

Quote

According to the Robert Koch Institute (RKI), the district of Freyung-Grafenau has the highest incidence value nationwide on Sunday with 1651.5 - the second day in a row. The situation is "catastrophic," the District Administrator of the Freyung-Grafenau District, Sebastian Gruber (CSU) said. "Our hospitals and intensive care capacities are close to collapse, and there are already individual transfers to other government districts."

According to Gruber, the vaccination rate in the district is currently around 57 percent, which is below the Bavarian average of currently 66 percent. While there is a "run" on vaccinations, he said, this often involves booster shots. In the case of initial vaccinations, only small steps are still being taken. For this reason, District Administrator Gruber once again urgently appeals to the entire population of the district to be vaccinated.

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/freyung-grafenau-landrat-begruesst-strengere-corona-regeln,SpJuYpl (prevod: Deepl)

Edited November 21, 2021 by vememah

[vememah]

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ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had their jab

In hospital, Covid-19 has largely become a disease of the unvaccinated. The man in his 20s who had always watched what he ate, worked out in the gym, was too healthy to ever catch Covid badly. The 48-year-old who never got round to making the appointment.

The person in their 50s whose friend had side-effects. The woman who wanted to wait for more evidence. The young pregnant lady worried about the effect on her baby.

The 60-year-old, brought to hospital with oxygen saturations of 70% by the ambulance that he initially called for his partner, who had died by the time it arrived; both believed that the drug companies bribed the government to get the vaccine approved.

All severely ill with Covid. All unvaccinated and previously healthy. All completely avoidable.

Of course, there are people who have their vaccinations but still get sick. These people may be elderly or frail, or have underlying health problems. Those with illnesses affecting the immune system, particularly patients who have had chemotherapy for blood cancers, are especially vulnerable. Some unlucky healthy people will also end up on our general wards with Covid after being vaccinated, usually needing a modest amount of oxygen for a few days.

But the story is different on our intensive care unit. Here, the patient population consists of a few vulnerable people with severe underlying health problems and a majority of fit, healthy, younger people unvaccinated by choice. Watching the mix of patients coming in with Covid, it feels to me like hardly anybody has been vaccinated nowadays; of course, this is because the people that have been vaccinated are getting on with their lives at home. If everyone got vaccinated, hospitals would be under much less pressure; this is beyond debate. Your wait for your clinic appointment/operation/diagnostic test/A&E department would be shorter. Your ambulance would arrive sooner. Reports of the pressure on the NHS are not exaggerated, I promise you.

Furthermore, we have recently rolled out a new medication for patients without antibodies against Covid. It costs about £2,000 a treatment and is subject to a rigorous and time-consuming approval process for every case we treat. Guess which patients don’t have these antibodies (spoiler: it’s not the ones who have been vaccinated).

Most of the resources that we are devoting to Covid in hospital are now being spent on the unvaccinated.

Yes, vaccinations are unpleasant. They cause side-effects. They hurt. You may even still catch Covid afterwards. I have many colleagues who have felt awful after vaccination and a few who had to take a day or two off work. However, I have not heard of any who have been hospitalised with Covid afterwards or who have had severe side-effects. The approvals process was incredibly stringent and we now have an unbelievable amount of real-world data that these vaccines work. The science that has been applied here is nothing short of awe-inspiring to me. However, I realise that none of these rational arguments would change the mind of someone who is resolved against having it, although I suppose it may push someone who remains undecided.

As a respiratory doctor, I have spent my whole career treating people whose lung diseases have been caused by smoking, including long after they knew the risks. I have spent countless hours with people who blame themselves for ruining their health; I have thought a lot about our personal responsibility for our health and to what degree we should be held accountable for our choices. I personally – unlike some of my colleagues – have never felt any ambivalence about treating smokers without judgment in exactly the same way as people with diseases that are not seen as self-inflicted.

Enshrined in the way we protect patients’ autonomy is the recognition that others may reasonably make decisions we may see as irrational or wrong. We are all products of our upbringing, education and opportunities, and I have been hugely fortunate that in my case these have led me to make decisions I value. Who is to say I wouldn’t have made different choices in someone else’s shoes.

Translating this to the choice not to take the vaccine, however, I find my patience wearing thin. I think this is for a number of reasons. Even if you are not worried about your own risk from Covid, you cannot know the risk of the people into whose faces you may cough; there is a dangerous and selfish element to this that I find hard to stomach.

Some of my frustration is directed upwards, at the flagrant misinformation flourishing in certain places and the utterly woeful example that our leaders continue to set. I have never heard a reason not to take the vaccine that I have agreed with. Most of all, however, I am now beaten back, exhausted, worn down by the continuous stream of people that we battle to treat when they have consciously passed up the opportunity to save themselves. It does make me angry.

Despite this, I find the idea of NHS and care staff being forced to be vaccinated very difficult. I know that it is the right outcome, but I dislike the means of bringing it about. It is incredible to me that there is so much anxiety and falsehood around that this could possibly be necessary after the year we have all witnessed. How strong is the hold that this information has on people that it outweighs rational thought?

Maybe it’s just that others have not seen what I have recently, or do not believe it, but even now we have nurses on our Covid ward who have not been vaccinated. I just hope that we don’t end up losing yet more staff.

Fundamentally though, for me, it comes down to this. I can’t think of a single case offhand of a person who was previously fit and healthy who has ended up needing intensive care after being fully vaccinated. It may not stop you from catching Covid. But it can save your life when you do.

The writer is an NHS respiratory consultant who works across a number of hospitals

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

Edited November 21, 2021 by vememah

[vememah]

Quote

Bitka za život: "Nama ne treba još jedan rat. Svaki dan nam umire 40, 50 ljudi"
Epidemija u Hrvatskoj bukti. Oborili smo rekorde. Prošlotjedni val tek će se u ovom tjednu preliti na bolnice. A stanje je u njima već teško. Liječnici i medicinske sestre su iscrpljeni. Uvjerili smo se u to i sami - ekipa HTV-ove emisije Puls provela je nekoliko sati na COVID odjelu splitske bolnice i svjedočila bitci za svaki život koja se ondje neumorno vodi. Ovo je prava istina o borbi protiv koronavirusa. Upozoravamo da bi vas neke snimke mogle uznemiriti.
- Nisam zabrinut što će biti za tri tjedna. Zabrinut sam što će biti sutra, govori doc. prim. dr. sc. Božidar Duplančić, anesteziolog intenzivist u KBC-u Split.
Vodi nas sa sobom u jutarnju vizitu u jedinicu intenzivnog liječenja COVID pozitivnih bolesnika na Klinici za anesteziologiju, reanimatologiju i intenzivno liječenje. Mnogima od njih život spašavaju respiratori. Radi se o uređaju, objašnjava nam Duplančić, koji je sličan aparatu za anesteziju - sučelje je isto, ali aparat za anesteziju još ima dva dodatka za plinovite anestetike.
- Respirator ne ubija, nego respirator spašava ljude. Respirator nam daje vrijeme potrebno da se pluća oporave, kaže Duplančić.
Jedna te ista ekipa, kaže, ovdje radi više od godinu dana. Liječnika ima dovoljno, no medicinskih sestara trebalo bi biti barem dvostruko više, upozorava.
- Umorna sam, umorni su svi kolege i kolegice. Baš neko jutro sam se pitala - "Bože, hoćemo li mi to sve moći izdržati?", govori nam Jadranka Maras, glavna sestra COVID jedinice intenzivnog liječenja.
- Za sada nekako uspijevamo, ali ako se ovo sve dalje razvuče, ako se ljudi ne cijepe, ako nas ne poslušaju... Mislim da bi ovi kadrovi što ste prošli preko našeg odjela trebali biti i neko upozorenje, dodaje.
- Naravno da nas je strah, kaže glavna sestra Ivanka Ercegović.
Duplančić upozorava kako je COVID-19 najveća ugroza hrvatske države i naroda nakon Domovinskog rata.
- Nama ne treba još jedan rat. Svaki dan nam umire 40, 50 ljudi. Sada domoljublje nije frenetično skakanje na prvi takt Lijepe naše, hvatanje za lijevu stranu prsišta... Sada je domoljublje, u ovom trenutku pogibelji hrvatskog naroda, odgovorno se ponašati, poručuje Duplančić, koji zaključuje - cijepljenje je najpametniji način zaštite od ove bolesti.

https://magazin.hrt.hr/price-iz-hrvatske/puls-bitka-za-zivot-3506995

 

 

[borris_]

U madjarskoj, opet katastrofa, danas 326 umrlih dok je u Austriji umrlo 26 na slican broj stanovnika.

Postotak vakcinisanih je veci u Austriji 69% vs 62,5%.

Ako sam dobro pratio Madjarska je koristila ove kineske vakcine pa jje vjerovatno i to jedan od razloga ovolikoj razlici.