Weenie Pooh Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, pacey defender said: Prvo pitanje - kakvo je zapravo ovo tvoje pitanje? Sta ono uopste znaci? Ti zapravo postavljas pitanje, koga boli dupe za to koju poruku salje jedan uticajan medij? Stave ljudi vrrlo provokativnu naslovnicu, iznesu stav tom naslovnicom, i onda ti pitas, koga boli dupe za naslovnicu. Pa boli dupe njih, iz Timesa. Ako nista drugo, zaradili su neke pare na osnovu te naslovnice, od prodaje, zar ne? Neka istrpe kritiku. Drugo pitanje, jesmo li sada to ustanovili da nije bitno kojim metodama se borimo za dobar cilj? Drugi pasus - potpuno tacno. Naslovnica (i pretpostaljam tekst) se bavi imigracionom politikom Trampove administracije, nipošto slučajem jedne uplakane devojčice, pa da njihovu poruku dezavuiše činjenica da je ta devojčica u stvari OK. Apsolutno ništa nije provokativno u toj montaži Trampa i deteta - sasvim korektna i pristojna ilustracija toga što država trenutno radi. T Da su umesto te male isekli sliku deteta sa bilo koje stok fotografije, neke recimo izbeglice sa Kosova koja je danas već odrasla i ništa joj ne fali; da li bi to bio fake news? Naravno da ne. Naslovna strana nikog nije pokušala da ubedi da se Tramp lično iživljava nad tom decom na granici - još manje nad tom konkretnom devojčicom - pa da sad bude kao lagali ste, situacija u stvari nije uopšte alarmantna. Nikakva borba, nikakav viši cilj, samo bavljenje bitnom društvnom temom i njena sasvim prigodna ilustracija.
bradilko Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 43 minutes ago, iDemo said: +101 za "praxu pre pojave trampa". Tada je, naravno, sve bilo 'bistro' i 'čisto' a i mediji su generalno izgledali nekako 'pouzdanije' naročito pre 20-30 godina - kad je interneta ipak bilo manje među najširim pučanstvom... Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk ne znam da li me zezas jer sam uzbuđen zbog pobede nemačke ali zarad prave slike treba reći kakva je bila praxa ranije, ne zbog rasističkog smrada trampa. ako samo guraš jedno a bez osnovnog morala samo radiš kontraproduktivno a la srpski tabloidi i spuštaš se na niske trampove vučićeve milove grane.. to nema veze sa uređivačkom politikom nekog medija ni sa slobodom štampe
iDemo Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 Definicija "ozbiljne novine" je sve uža i specifičnija a lista "ozhiljnih novina" sve kraća i kraća - teži nuli... Drugo - i "ozbiljnim novinama" treba tiraž, dakle - i otvorena provokacija ako treba. I tako... Danas (više) ništa nije nemoguće kad su "ozbiljne" novine i uopste "ozbiljni" mediji u pitanju...Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
bradilko Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 kako hoće "ozbiljni mediji" ugled se ipak brzo gubi u novinarstvu nema stare slave i duge staze..
iDemo Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 Ne zezam te, mrtav sam ozbiljan.Saosećam sto se Nemacke tice -ja sam ustao i upalio tv u momentu kad je Švaba nameštao loptu. Gledam 1:1, 94:45 i njega kako namešta loptu. Ostatak znaš.Triple-double baj pas i 4 stenta - nije lako...Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Budja Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 18 hours ago, Weenie Pooh said: Naslovnica (i pretpostaljam tekst) se bavi imigracionom politikom Trampove administracije, nipošto slučajem jedne uplakane devojčice, pa da njihovu poruku dezavuiše činjenica da je ta devojčica u stvari OK. Apsolutno ništa nije provokativno u toj montaži Trampa i deteta - sasvim korektna i pristojna ilustracija toga što država trenutno radi. T Da su umesto te male isekli sliku deteta sa bilo koje stok fotografije, neke recimo izbeglice sa Kosova koja je danas već odrasla i ništa joj ne fali; da li bi to bio fake news? Naravno da ne. Naslovna strana nikog nije pokušala da ubedi da se Tramp lično iživljava nad tom decom na granici - još manje nad tom konkretnom devojčicom - pa da sad bude kao lagali ste, situacija u stvari nije uopšte alarmantna. Nikakva borba, nikakav viši cilj, samo bavljenje bitnom društvnom temom i njena sasvim prigodna ilustracija. ??? Nesto ti vinisanje ide salbo u poslednje vreme, prvo penal nad Mitrovicem a sad ovo.
Weenie Pooh Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 Slabo pratiš moj opus, definicija vinisanja je nešto sasvim drugo. Objasni molim te kako ta naslovna strana ne ilustruje adekvatno to što država radi.
pacey defender Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Weenie Pooh said: Naslovnica (i pretpostaljam tekst) se bavi imigracionom politikom Trampove administracije, nipošto slučajem jedne uplakane devojčice, pa da njihovu poruku dezavuiše činjenica da je ta devojčica u stvari OK. Apsolutno ništa nije provokativno u toj montaži Trampa i deteta - sasvim korektna i pristojna ilustracija toga što država trenutno radi. T Da su umesto te male isekli sliku deteta sa bilo koje stok fotografije, neke recimo izbeglice sa Kosova koja je danas već odrasla i ništa joj ne fali; da li bi to bio fake news? Naravno da ne. Naslovna strana nikog nije pokušala da ubedi da se Tramp lično iživljava nad tom decom na granici - još manje nad tom konkretnom devojčicom - pa da sad bude kao lagali ste, situacija u stvari nije uopšte alarmantna. Nikakva borba, nikakav viši cilj, samo bavljenje bitnom društvnom temom i njena sasvim prigodna ilustracija. Baš zato što se tekst bavi problemom imigracione politike u Trampovoj administraciji, nije bilo neophodno uzeti fotografiju devojčice koja prolazi - kako razumem - rutinirano lošu imigracionu politiku, dakle onu koja je manje-više kontinuitet vlasti. Drugi post ti je kao da polemišeš sa nekim Trampovim podržavaocem, a ne sa mnom pa nema smisla da detaljnije odgovaram na njega. Naravno da je situacija alarmantna. Edited June 24, 2018 by pacey defender
Budja Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Weenie Pooh said: Slabo pratiš moj opus, definicija vinisanja je nešto sasvim drugo. Objasni molim te kako ta naslovna strana ne ilustruje adekvatno to što država radi. Devocjcica je pretresena u drustvu majke. To je praksa pa,,, 30, 40...100 godina? Nema u ovom slucaju razdvajanja deteta od majke, a to je praksa koja se kritikuje, Ne kritikuje se politika drzave da pretresa imigrante. Problem bi bio manji da je rec o nekom generic kid koje pre toga nije proslo korz facebook i medije jedno milion puta jer onda simbol ne bio mogao da se poveze sa realnom situacijom. Ali, onda ne bi naslovnica bila tako potentna jer citaoci vec imaju iskstuvo sa tom slikom pa je emotivni udar jaci. Edited June 24, 2018 by Budja
Budja Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 Sa druge strana Sara radi odlican posao za Tramparu kao zrtva "liberalnog harassment-a" - prvo ona vecera novinara a sad izbacivanje iz restorana.
Weenie Pooh Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 Kakve veze ima konkretan slučaj te devojčice, pobogu? Bio im je potreban kadar uplakanog deteta da ga stave ispred Trampa. Apsolutno je irelevantno da li je to dete sa slike bilo odvojeno od majke ili ne jer se ne kritikuje pojedinačan slučaj nego overall policy. Pritom, nemojmo zaboraviti da je fotoreporter išao na ridealong sa patrolom i tako dobio priliku da uslika dete. Činjenica da se ICE odlučio da baš to konkretno dete spakuje sa majkom u isti detention center, umesto da ih stiktno razdvaja što je zvanična praksa, teško da je slučajna.
3opge Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 Who Where Why What Happened: With so little transparency into what’s going on, it’s no surprise that there’s one question hanging over events as they slowly unfold. It’s a very simple question with disturbing implications. What Really Happened: As if everything about the current border crisis wasn’t disturbing enough, the little access the media has had to the detention centers children are being kept in—US Border Patrol doesn’t want to call them cages, we found out this week, even though they are cages—has been … lacking something. Women's March ✔@womensmarch 14 Jun Read this entire thread. This is what @realDonaldTrump and Sessions’ @TheJusticeDept are doing to children. This detention center and many of the ones we’ve heard of seem to be just for boys, leaving us wondering: where are the girls? https://twitter.com/jacobsoboroff/status/1007019318293553153 … Women's March ✔@womensmarch Detention centers holding men and boys have barely allowed access to journalists. We know immigrant women and girls face additional challenges, like the increased threat of sexual violence, when migrating to the US and while incarcerated. We ask again: where are the girls? 10:44 AM - Jun 14, 2018 1,176 779 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Stacy Whitman ✔@stacylwhitman Have we seen ANY facilities with girls? Where are the girls?? Gadi Schwartz ✔@GadiNBC Replying to @GadiNBC At this facility, there are 63 kids, all males and most from Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. We saw them playing soccer in a caged field with nets. We were told the fencing was because soccer balls kept getting kicked off property. 9:57 AM - Jun 16, 2018 225 115 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Lizz “space force" Winstead ✔@lizzwinstead WHERE ARE THE GIRLS? Someone please answer this. #FamiliesBelongTogether 6:22 PM - Jun 16, 2018 212 86 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Jacob Soboroff ✔@jacobsoboroff Where are the girls? Where are the toddlers? We have asked for access and will continue to. 9:58 AM - Jun 17, 2018 32.4K 12K people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Cristobal Alex ✔@CristobalJAlex Oh my god. No one knows where the girls are. The tent city we are protesting tomorrow is warehousing young boys. But where are the daughters?! Imagine you're a parent and they take your child. I cannot not even begin to comprehend this horror. Amy Siskind ✔@Amy_Siskind Just got this message from a concerned citizen in Tornillo, TX if anyone can answer: “I'm here along the border. Where are the girls? We can't find them anywhere. All we hear about are boys. Here in Tornillo they're bringing in boys. Where are the girls? We are panicking.” 6:35 PM - Jun 16, 2018 74 40 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Amy Siskind ✔@Amy_Siskind Respectfully, photos released by Border Patrol are the ones they want us to see. We need reporters to go where they are not supposed to be and find the truth - and the girls - where are the girls!!??? David Begnaud ✔@DavidBegnaud These images were just released by border patrol @CBP showing the McAllen, Texas detention facility that we were allowed to tour today. For now, we can only rely on what they give us. They will not allow us inside to film on our own. Why? “Privacy”; they don’t want faces shown 6:47 PM - Jun 17, 2018 2,585 1,758 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy David Begnaud ✔@DavidBegnaud We are asking: Where are the girls and toddlers being sent after they are separated. Can we get pictures of the facility (as we’ve gotten for one of boy facilities) and can we gain access inside to see it? @HHSGov ? Jacob Soboroff ✔@jacobsoboroff Just heard from @HHSGov again: Of the 11,786 minors currently in the unaccompanied alien children program, 3,280 are female and 8,506 are male. We still don’t have photos of or acces to any girls or toddlers. 8:13 PM - Jun 19, 2018 451 322 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Elsa Sjunneson-Henry, Fancy Cyclops@snarkbat Where are the disabled children? Are they getting adequate care? (They're not, I guarantee it) Where are the girls? Where are the babies? This situation is really terrifying. But it is assuredly most terrifying for the children. 10:40 PM - Jun 19, 2018 357 122 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Rep Frederica Wilson ✔@RepWilson Where are the girls? I fear that they could be victims of human trafficking and want to be sure they are free from any pressure, know their rights and know how to report any abridgement of those rights. #KeepFamilesTogether 6:44 PM - Jun 19, 2018 719 369 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Banner reads 3,289 girls are in the unaccompanied alien children program. Rep. Val Demings ✔@RepValDemings 3,289 girls are in the unaccompanied alien children program. How many of them were separated from their parents at the border? None of the images of detained migrant children picture girls. Where are the girls? Why doesn't anyone know #WhereAreTheGirls? #FamiliesBelongTogether 11:30 AM - Jun 21, 2018 696 492 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Remember the Kirstjen Nielsen briefing referenced earlier? It turns out, someone asked her about this very question, and the answer wasn’t particularly reassuring. POLITICO ✔@politico Reporter: Why is the government only releasing images of the boys being held? Where are the girls & toddlers? Nielsen: I'll look into that 5:36 PM - Jun 18, 2018 7,770 7,220 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy At some point this week, it looked as if an answer might be forthcoming. Christina Wilkie ✔@christinawilkie DHS official answers request for images or footage of girls and young children by saying they're working on getting more footage from more locations, hope to have it within the next 2 days. #WhereAreTheGirls 10:46 AM - Jun 19, 2018 130 128 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy Unfortunately, this turned out to be, at best, an optimistic estimate. Kyle Griffin ✔@kylegriffin1 Big reminder: HHS officials pledged on Tuesday to release photos of detained girls and toddlers "within the next two days." That would be by the end of today. https://wapo.st/2K5bbTO 6:50 AM - Jun 21, 2018 Analysis | A congressman answers the question ‘where are the girls’ His other questions about family separations were more worrisome. washingtonpost.com 6,201 3,956 people are talking about this Twitter Ads info and privacy The Takeaway: As media interest grows, observers are no closer, it seems, to actually seeing where the girls are being held, even as allegations of abuse in detention centers start to surface. Still, does everyone agree that this is bad? Oh, maybe not.
Budja Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Weenie Pooh said: Kakve veze ima konkretan slučaj te devojčice, pobogu? Bio im je potreban kadar uplakanog deteta da ga stave ispred Trampa. Apsolutno je irelevantno da li je to dete sa slike bilo odvojeno od majke ili ne jer se ne kritikuje pojedinačan slučaj nego overall policy. Pritom, nemojmo zaboraviti da je fotoreporter išao na ridealong sa patrolom i tako dobio priliku da uslika dete. Činjenica da se ICE odlučio da baš to konkretno dete spakuje sa majkom u isti detention center, umesto da ih stiktno razdvaja što je zvanična praksa, teško da je slučajna. Pa to je obrazac koji se primenjuje uvek kada treba da se proizvede emocionalni efekat: Sirija, Libija, you name it... Da li slika relativno verno odrazava sto se servira citaocu/gledaocu, who cares. To se zove manipulacija. Ja sam zaista sokiran sta pokusavas da opravdas.
Weenie Pooh Posted June 24, 2018 Posted June 24, 2018 A ja sam i dalje zbunjen time što vama smeta. Terate me da branim američke MSM, jbt Jedino što se čitaocu servira je teza: Tramp trpa decu u koncentacione logore kako bi obeshabrio buduće imigrante. To je tačno, to je neosporno, to se dešava, o tome vredi razgovarati. Tu tezu sasvim lepo ilustruje ironični igrokaz u kom Tramp uplakanom detetu želi "dobrodošlicu" u Ameriku. Apsolutno je nebitna autentičnost tog prikaza, jer niko nije ni pokušao da tvrdi da je autentičan, da su se Tramp i ta mala ikad susreli licem u lice. Poentu i poruku te naslovne strane ni na koji način ne devalvira činjenica da je to dete u stvari ostalo sa majkom (u pritvoru). Druga deca jesu bila odvojena od roditelja, ogroman broj njih - zar je potrebno da se baš njihove fotografije pojave na naslovnim stranama kako bi se o tom problemu pričalo?
Recommended Posts