BrExit?

[Anduril]

1 komentar na Patenov tekst:

 

 

Ono što je ranije rekao BoJo - žakerija, grab-the-pitchforks movement... a u suštini pitanje za elitu - u kom trenutku i zašto je dozvolila da se akumulira bes koji nije umela da razveje kroz dati politički okvir.

 

To je ono klasicno - elita kriva i mora da zna da ce joj se to kad tad obiti o glavu jer ce mob da uradi nesto glupo.

Ima tu jos jedna opcija - da se taj mob organizuje (kao tokom 19. i 20. veka) u nesto smisleno poput socijaldemokratije ili sindikata.

Umesto toga sada glasaju kao ovce za populiste kao izmedju dva rata dok su posle rata bili politicki mnogo aktivniji. 

Nikad elita nigde nece na duzi rok uvek misliti na one koji ne misle ni sami na sebe - u ovom britanskom slucaju ce elita jednostavno da zapali.

[Prospero]

Oko eventualne ponude, mislim da Brisel ide out of its way da pokaže da od toga neće biti ništa, naprotiv:
 
 
 
 
 
 

In an effort to protect EU’s integrity, European Parliament party leaders have urged David Cameron to fully respect the British citizens’ will and “immediately” activate Article 50 of the Treaty to start Britain’s EU withdrawal process.
In a draft resolution due to be voted on Tuesday (28 June), MEPs from the Parliament’s main political groups have called on the UK’s exit from the EU to be speeded up.


A fast-track process

Parliament leaders emphasised the need to “immediately” activate the Article 50 of the Treaty of the European Union, saying the will of British citizens should be fully respected.
“Negotiations under Article 50 TEU concerning the UK’s withdrawal from the EU must begin as soon as once the formal notification has been communicated,” the MEPs said, adding that this iwould prevent damaging uncertainty for everyone and protect the Union’s integrity.

The resolution is co-signed by Manfred Weber and Elmar Brok on behalf of the European People’s Party (EPP), Gianni Pittella and Roberto Gualtieri on behalf of the Socialists and Democrats (S&D), Guy Verhofstadt for the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe (ALDE) and Rebecca Harms and Philippe Lamberts on behalf of the Greens/EFA.

The MEPs also urged UK’s Prime Minister David Cameron to notify the outcome of the referendum to the upcoming European Council on 28-29 June and noted that the “Settlement agreement” agreed in February was now “null and void”.
“The British government plays with time. The Parliament wants to conclude the procedures as quickly as possible,” a source told EurActiv.com.

In an effort to put pressure to the British government to act rapidly, parliament’s party leaders also made clear that any new relationship between the UK and the EU “may not be agreed before the conclusion of the withdrawal agreement”.

The EU officials also underlined that the consent of the European Parliament was required under the Treaties and, thus, it should be fully involved at all stages of the various procedures concerning the withdrawal agreement and any future relationship.
 

Re-launching the EU project
 
The Parliament’s leaders noted that it was a “crucial moment” for the EU and therefore, the interests and expectations of EU citizens must be brought back to the centre of the debate.
“The European project must be re-launched now”, they said, urging for a reform with a Treaty revision that will make the EU “better and more democratic”.
“Whereas some may choose to integrate more slowly or to a lesser extent, the core of the EU must be reinforced and a la carte solutions should be avoided,” the letter reads, adding that the Economic and Monetary union should be democratized.

Meanwhile EU’s founding countries meeting on Saturday (25 June) said they want Britain to begin leaving the union “as soon as possible” to keep the bloc from being stranded in “limbo”.
 
The Parliament also raised the issue of the rotating presidency of the Council of the European Union, which the UK is due to assume from 1 July 2017.
“The European Parliament calls on the Council to change the order of its Presidencies to prevent the process of withdrawal from jeopardizing the management of the day-to-day business of the Union.”

 

[bradilko]

daleko im lepa kuca.gradili su svoju ulogu kao razarajuci element u eu.trazili su reforme ali ne u svojoj kuci.imali su odlicnu poziciju ali nisu politicke "elite" dobro razumele.veci su imali uticaj nego sto zasluzuju.

bice fora da skoti ostanu u eu.london ce umreti od muke.vize im treba uvesti

[Prospero]

To je ono klasicno - elita kriva i mora da zna da ce joj se to kad tad obiti o glavu jer ce mob da uradi nesto glupo.

Ima tu jos jedna opcija - da se taj mob organizuje (kao tokom 19. i 20. veka) u nesto smisleno poput socijaldemokratije ili sindikata.

Umesto toga sada glasaju kao ovce za populiste kao izmedju dva rata dok su posle rata bili politicki mnogo aktivniji. 

Nikad elita nigde nece na duzi rok uvek misliti na one koji ne misle ni sami na sebe - u ovom britanskom slucaju ce elita jednostavno da zapali.

 

Pa šta god da "mob" uradi ta elita će vikati "populisti", eto i ti se nisi suzdržao u 1 forumskom postu. I kad se "mob" organizuje ti bi prvi povikao "e, ne može to, imamo pravila koja kažu drugačije!"

 

Nikada neće svi, a ni većina misliti sami na sebe u političkom smislu, nego će živeti svoje male™ živote, day to day, i biće gurkani od elite da podrže ovo ili ono, da rubber-stampuju svaki papir poturen pod nos, dok im ne prekipi. Kao da se jedanput desilo, i kao da će ikada biti drugačije.

 

Elita je elita i zato što misli i na druge a ne samo na sebe, ako misli samo na sebe to nije elita.

[MancMellow]

To je ono klasicno - elita kriva i mora da zna da ce joj se to kad tad obiti o glavu jer ce mob da uradi nesto glupo.

Ima tu jos jedna opcija - da se taj mob organizuje (kao tokom 19. i 20. veka) u nesto smisleno poput socijaldemokratije ili sindikata.

Umesto toga sada glasaju kao ovce za populiste kao izmedju dva rata dok su posle rata bili politicki mnogo aktivniji. 

Nikad elita nigde nece na duzi rok uvek misliti na one koji ne misle ni sami na sebe - u ovom britanskom slucaju ce elita jednostavno da zapali.

 

Ne verujem da je Murdoch rad da organizuje sindikate. Ovo je klasican sukob izmedju dva dela elite koja su do tada zajednicki iskoriscavala jedan deo stanovnistva u kojem je prvi deo elite iskoristio mob protiv drugog. Nista novo, desavalo se od jos u antickom Rimu. Pri tom i taj drugi, sada porazeni, deo elite nije imao nista protiv da se workeri decenijama politicki anestetizuju nacionalizmom i antievropeizmom u tabloidima i slicnim medijskim napravama. "Mob" je dobio sta je hteo - osvetu (koju ce doduse iskusiti najpre srednja klasa, mnogo pre nego visa srednja klasa i bogatuni, a elita ce se vec nekako snaci. I jedna i druga. 

[vememah]

[Prospero]

Nikola ubacila u petu:
 
 
 
 

 

Nicola Sturgeon to lobby EU members to support Scotland's remain bid

First minister to set up panel of experts to advise her on managing Scotland’s relationship with EU, as Labour considers endorsing independence

Saturday 25 June 2016 17.35 BST


Nicola Sturgeon is to directly lobby European Union member states for support in ensuring that Scotland can remain part of the EU, after Scots voted emphatically against Brexit on Thursday.
The first minister has disclosed that she is to invite all EU diplomats based in Scotland to a summit at her official residence in Edinburgh within the next two weeks, in a bid to sidestep the UK government.

After Scotland voted 62% to 38% to stay in the EU, she said she planned to begin immediate discussions with the European commission to “protect Scotland’s relationship with the EU and our place in the single market”.
The first minister made the announcement after an emergency cabinet meeting on Saturday morning. She added that she would establish an advisory body of financial, legal and diplomatic experts who can advise her government on its options for retaining EU membership after Thursday’s UK-wide vote, by 52% to 48%, to leave the EU.

“Cabinet agreed we would begin immediate discussions with the EU institutions and other member states to explore all the possible options to protect Scotland’s place in the EU,” she said.
The consequences of Britain’s decision to leave the EU continued to emerge on Saturday, including:

• The UK’s most senior EU official, European commissioner Jonathan Hill, resigned his post. Lord Hill, who was sent to Brussels by David Cameron and took the highly-prized portfolio of financial services, said he didn’t believe it was right for him to carry on in the post.
• EU governments continued to press Britain to trigger article 50 immediately, beginning the Brexit process. Foreign ministers from across the continent, who met in Berlin on Saturday, said talks on the UK’s exit must begin promptly and urged a new British prime minister to take office quickly.
• Jeremy Corbyn dismissed an alleged plot to oust him as Labour leader in the coming days. Speaking in central London, Corbyn said Conservative austerity had paved the way for a Brexit vote, adding that the country must have an honest discussion about immigration. He was also heckled at London’s Pride festival.
• David Cameron appeared at a military event in Cleethorpes, less than 24 hours after he announced his intention to step down as prime minister and amid rumours about his possible replacement. Theresa May has emerged as the likely opposition to leading leave campaigner Boris Johnson.
• British businesses continued to feel the effect of the Brexit vote, with estate agents warning that property deals could fall through and retailers admitting that food and clothing prices could rise in the coming days.
• The leave campaign appeared to row back on a series of high profile campaign pledges, including suggestions that immigration would not go down, free movement of labour would remain in place and Brexit savings would not go to the NHS.

In a further significant development, Scottish Labour’s executive committee opened up the prospect it could eventually endorse independence after agreeing to “consider all options” on Scotland’s future in the UK.

Until now, Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale had consistently opposed a second referendum, but the party is now to consult unions, parliamentarians and members on its position after the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU. Party officials said the political situation was so fluid and uncertain, it was impossible to arrive at a fixed position now on Scotland’s future.

Dugdale said Scottish Labour believed in the UK and pooling resources and sovereignty, but it now had to apply those values “to do the best thing for Scotland and the interests of working people within it”.
Sturgeon said the cabinet had endorsed her decision on Friday to begin immediate preparations for a second Scottish independence referendum. Her officials refused to confirm indications that a new bill would be in her programme for government in September.

In a statement outside her Bute House residence in Edinburgh, Sturgeon did not repeat her view on Friday that a new vote was highly likely, but said that “a second independence referendum is clearly an option that requires to be on the table and it is very much on the table.

“And to ensure that option is a deliverable one in the required timetable, steps will be taken to ensure that the necessary legislation is in place. Cabinet this morning formally agreed to that work.”
She added: “We are determined to act decisively but in a way which builds unity across Scotland about the way forward.” The advisory panel is expected to include pro-UK figures and non-nationalists.
In an immediate boost for Sturgeon, the Labour-supporting Daily Record newspaper publicly endorsed her decision to pursue the option of a second independence vote by splashing “EU go girl” on its front page on Saturday. It said Sturgeon had “little option” after the Brexit vote by England and Wales. The Glasgow Herald newspaper said Sturgeon was justified in seeking that option in its editorial.

Her government’s first direct overtures to the EU will come on Monday when Scottish cabinet secretary for rural economy, Fergus Ewing, will take part in the Agrifish council in Luxembourg and then meet EU agriculture commissioner Phil Hogan, and set out Sturgeon’s pro-membership agenda.

Scottish government sources said Sturgeon was pursuing a twin-track approach, to prepare for a fresh independence referendum within two years at the same time as investigating whether Scotland could be granted some form of associative status by the EU while remaining part of the UK.

Her advisers and officials are to consult constitutional and legal experts, including those invited to join her advisory body, on alternatives to outright independence to retain close EU ties and rights. It is understood MSPs in the Tories and Greens are studying that route.

There is no direct precedent in EU history for a part or region of an EU member having a different status than the member state of which it is part, other than the decision by Greenland in 1984 to quit the EU in protest at its fishing policies.
Greenland left the EU while remaining an autonomous part of member state Denmark, and while retaining some EU benefits. The Faroe Islands, while also part of Denmark, are excluded from EU membership.
Sturgeon is extremely keen to ensure her government has parallel options available since she remains worried about the acute constitutional, legal and economic challenges an independent Scotland would face.

She is expected to candidly admit in coming weeks that she cannot yet answer many pressing questions about independence now the UK is leaving the EU. Those are thought to include Scotland’s currency options and its share of UK debt.
There is a large diplomatic corps in Edinburgh, including consuls general from several of the major world powers and from other EU member states. She said at her summit with diplomats she would ask their help in reassuring their nationals living in Scotland that they were welcomed and cherished.

“People from other EU countries who have done us the honour of choosing Scotland as their home are welcome here. I want to make sure that is a message we get across strongly,” she added.
 
A European commission spokeswoman declined to comment on Sturgeon’s remarks, or whether EU officials would enter into talks with the Scottish government. “If there is a request [for talks], I am sure there will be a response, but I cannot offer any comments on things that have not happened,” she said. “For the time being the UK is still a member of the EU and a dialogue has not yet started.”

The European commission head, Jean-Claude Juncker, was scheduled to speak with the Scottish first minister on Friday. But when the question of Scottish independence was on the table two years ago, EU officials had insisted that were it an independent country, Scotland would have to apply to join the EU. Under the EU treaty article 49, any democratic European country can apply to join the EU.

But some experts think it is possible that the rest of the EU may agree to put Scotland on a separate fast-track process, rather than bracketing it with EU aspirants such as Albania and Turkey.
Steve Peers, professor of law at the University of Essex, has written: “It may be that the remaining EU could have more political will to welcome Scotland as an EU member than it might have had in 2014, in the interests of stemming any perception that the EU is falling apart.”

 

[MancMellow]

Koji mess

[precog]

Nema sansone da Skoti izadju iz UK. Napravice Englezi dil sa EU relevantnim faktorima da ih odjebu i da im kazu da stanu u red za prijem, pa ce da razmisle za 10 godina. Malo ce i Ameri da pritisnu, pa ce biti padanja na grudi Engleza i Skota.

Severni Irci nece ni krenuti u ozbiljnu pricu oko ujedinjenja sa "maticom".

 

Edit. E da, javlja mi se nakon jutarnje kafe.

Edited June 25, 2016 by precog

[MancMellow]

Nema sansone da Skoti izadju iz UK. Napravice Englezi dil sa EU relevantnim faktorima da ih odjebu i da im kazu da stanu u red za prijem, pa ce da razmisle za 10 godina. Malo ce i Ameri da pritisnu, pa ce biti padanja na grudi Engleza i Skota.

Severni Irci nece ni krenuti u ozbiljnu pricu oko ujedinjenja sa "maticom".

 

Edit. E da, javlja mi se nakon jutarnje kafe.

 

ne kazem da ih nece odjebati, ali mi se cini da trenutno Englezi sa EU ne bi mogli da se dogovore ni gde i kad da popiju kafu. Pre ce ih odjebati zato sto nece uspeti da se sami dogovore oko toga.

[Dr Arslanagić]

pojedini poslanici najavljuju da neće glasati za izlazak iz EU, bez obzira na rezultate referenduma

[vememah]

Zadnja anketa o otcepljenju Škotske iz maja kaže da je 54% bilo protiv, a 46% za. Još nema novih nakon Brexit referenduma. Očigeldno je da će biti dosta tesno i da Sterdžonova traži najbolji tajming i podršku EU. Ako ne bude prilično sigurna da može da dobije, referenduma neće ni biti, druga blamaža s tim bila bi previše, zato i izbegava da kaže da će ga definitivno biti.

 

How would you vote in the in the Scottish independence referendum if held now? (asked after the referendum)

 

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-the-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-a#line

Edited June 25, 2016 by vememah

[dillinger]

Španija i Belgija bi sasvim sigurno podržali ostanak Škotske u EU, aha.

[Prospero]

Pa da, zaboravlja se katalonski problem.

[Tribun_Populi]

pojedini poslanici najavljuju da neće glasati za izlazak iz EU, bez obzira na rezultate referenduma

To im samo fali, parlament da ide kontra popular vote-a, i da ga ugase totalno. Ne bi me čudilo da im se iz Brisela onda prilično nediplomatski sugeriše da se ne zajebavaju sa narodom, nego da kupe prnje i begaju