BrExit?

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

Brexit: UK 'will have to face consequences' in event of no deal

 

The UK will have to "face the consequences" if it opts to leave without a deal, the EU's chief Brexit negotiator has said.

Michel Barnier told BBC Panorama the thrice-rejected agreement negotiated by Theresa May was the "only way to leave the EU in an orderly manner".

He also insisted Mrs May and her ministers "never" told him during Brexit talks she might opt for no deal. Publicly, Mrs May has always insisted no deal is better than a bad deal. Meanwhile, the Office for Budget Responsibility has said the UK will fall into recession next year if there is a no-deal Brexit. The fiscal watchdog said economic growth would fall by 2% by the end of 2020 if it left the bloc without an agreement.

 

'Not impressed by threat'

In his first UK broadcast interview - conducted in May before the start of the Conservative leadership contest - Mr Barnier was asked what would happen if the UK "just tore up the membership card" for the EU.

"The UK will have to face the consequences," he replied.

Asked whether the UK had ever genuinely threatened to leave in such a way with no deal, Mr Barnier said: "I think that the UK side, which is well informed and competent and knows the way we work on the EU side, knew from the very beginning that we've never been impressed by such a threat. "It's not useful to use it."

 

Conservative Party leadership contender Jeremy Hunt told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the fact the EU "never believed that no deal was a credible threat" was "one of our mistakes in the last two years". He said while there will be economic consequences to no deal, "we are much better prepared for no deal than we were before". He said the issue of the Northern Ireland border could be solved with "existing technology" and the controversial Irish backstop, which aims to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland, "isn't going to happen". Former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith, a key figure in Boris Johnson's leadership campaign, accused Mr Barnier of trying to "threaten" the UK. He said Mr Barnier's remarks were an indictment of Britain's negotiating strategy and showed "how useless" Mrs May's approach had been. Leadership frontrunner Mr Johnson was asked for an interview by Panorama, but he declined.

 

Elsewhere in the programme, Mrs May's de facto deputy David Lidington revealed that a senior EU official made a secret offer to the UK to put Brexit on hold for five years and negotiate a "new deal for Europe". Mr Lidington said the offer was passed on in 2018 by Martin Selmayr, a senior aide to EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker. "Martin sort of said, 'Look, why don't we have a deal whereby we just put all this on ice for five years?' "Let's see how things go, let's get the UK involved with France and Germany, let's see how the dust settles and let's talk about whether we can come to a new deal for Europe.'"

 

In his own interview for the programme - also recorded in May - Mr Selmayr said he was "very certain" the UK was not ready to leave without a deal before the original Brexit deadline in March this year. "We have seen what has been prepared on our side of the border for a hard Brexit. We don't see the same level of preparation on the other side of the border," he added.

 

In another interview for the programme, the EU Commission's First Vice-President, Frans Timmermans, said UK ministers were "running around like idiots" when they arrived to negotiate Brexit in 2017. Mr Timmermans said while he expected a "Harry Potter-like book of tricks" from ministers, instead they were like a character from from Dad's Army. In an interview in March 2019 with the BBC's Nick Robinson, Mr Timmermans said he found it "shocking" how unprepared the UK team was when it began negotiations. "We thought they are so brilliant," he said. "That in some vault somewhere in Westminster there will be a Harry Potter-like book with all the tricks and all the things in it to do." But after seeing the then-Brexit Secretary David Davis - who resigned over his disagreements with the deal - speaking in public, his mind changed. "I saw him not coming, not negotiating, grandstanding elsewhere [and] I thought, 'Oh my God, they haven't got a plan, they haven't got a plan.' "That was really shocking, frankly, because the damage if you don't have a plan... "Time's running out and you don't have a plan. It's like Lance Corporal Jones, you know, 'Don't panic, don't panic!' Running around like idiots."

 

'Playing games'

Mr Timmermans - interviewed two months before Mrs May announced her resignation - also criticised Boris Johnson's approach to Brexit negotiations from when they began. "Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but it is about time we became a bit harsh. I am not sure he was being genuine," he said.

"I have always had the impression he is playing games." Negotiations between the UK and EU began in 2017 after Prime Minister Theresa May triggered the Article 50 process to leave the bloc. At the end of 2018, a withdrawal agreement was settled between the two sides and EU officials said the matter was closed. But MPs voted against the plan three times, which led to a number of delays to the exit date - now set for 31 October.

[Anduril]

On 7.7.2019. at 21:00, Marvin (Paranoid Android) said:

 

Taj motiv ponosa na kolonijalno vreme i žala za starom istorijom svakako ima, ali iz tvita gore izmiče mnogo, mnogo zanimljiviji i dublji, onaj koji je jako dobro opisao ovaj momak, pročitajte i 4-5 replika:

 

 

 

 

Po mom skromnom ali uvek tačnom i nepogrešivom mišljenju, ovo je pogođeno pravo u centar. Ogroman, i za sada dosta zanemaren sentiment, je ogroman generacijski jaz između bejbi bumera, ili bilo koga ko je danas stariji od 60 godina i, blanko gledano, "mlađih".

 

Ovaj momak je pogodio pravo u srž jednog ogromnog društvenog fenomena, verovatno na neki svoj način zastupljenog svuda, ali onoga koji se ovih godina manifestuje u Britaniji na ovaj način. Ne "sit gladnom ne veruje", nego "sad ćemo mi da (po)kažemo tim mladima". Tokom devedesetih u Srbiji postoji jasna distinkcija između mladih/opozicije i penzionera/vlasti, ali iskreno ne mogu da se setim da li je postojala na neki način i pre toga, na neki način koji se nije oslikavao kroz političku prizmu.

 

Ovde u Britaniji živim već dugo, i prosto je nemoguće izbeći dojam da ogromna većina matorih ljudi ovde na mlade gledaju sa velikim podozrenjem. Nekada je to nešto benigno "They don't know they are born these days", što bi se labavo prevelo sa "Ova današnja deca ne zna go kurac ni o čemu", a nekada je ono potpuno odbijanje da se shvati da su neke običaji i delovi kulture iščezli, a da su novi običaji ili podkulture iznikle, i gledanje sa potpunim prezirom na isto. To ide od potpunog nipodaštavanja mlađih generacija, nazivajući ih luvvies ili snowflakes, a u krajnost ide tako što se evociraju uspomene na kako je njima tek teško bilo u posleratnim godinama, kada su jeli samo četvrtkom i hodali bosi po trnju, "but it never did us any harm", ili što bi kod nas reklo "napravila je vosjka ljude od njih". Izvođenje zaključaka je uvek na štetu mladih, zašto oni eto samo kukaju a ne mogu da kupe svoju kuću ili stan jer "kako smo mogli mi", bez ikakvog uviđavanja da su bejbi bumeri mogli kupiti čitavu porodičnu kuću za oko 3.5 svoje godišnje plate tog doba, dok ta skala danas ide do faktora od 10 ili 12 (malo se frljam ovde brojkama, nemam precizno), što je uostalom i bilo "normalno" sve do nekih 1990-tih, kada su cene eksplodirale. Dok ta generacija bumera i direktno ova iza njih su imali maltene pa zagarantovano kakve takve sigurne poslove, priuštive nekretnine i obezbeđenu penziju, dok u poslednjih 20 godina nijedno od ta tri, ono, osnovna faktora u života uopšte nije zagarantovan ovim (prokletim) mladima, ali opet gledaju na njih uglavnom sa prezirom, i sve svoje probleme svaljuju na svet koji odavno više ne razumeju.

This is a war on youth. All those nonsense articles about avocados* and snowflakes. Millennials not knowing how to change a tyre, and embracing gender nonconformity. It used to be that older generations would do anything for their kids/grandkids. But a steady drip-feed of toxicity has turned them against young people. So the idea of a no deal Brexit fills them with excitement because it's a chance to punish young people for their profligacy and perceived 'ease' of life. They want people to go without, to suffer. That's why they keep invoking world wars and rations. Not because they think they fought in the war, but because they survived the aftermath. Now they want to inflict suffering on younger generations, simply because they're jealous. It's a spiteful and regressive mindset, one that's being quietly fomenting in the media for years. The Sins of the Father have been upended, and now younger generations are to be punished for enjoying freedoms and opportunities by the very people that gave them to us.

* pre koju godinu, u jeku referendumske kampanje ili neko vreme ispred, jedan od konzervativnih listova je perfidno napravio jako big dil od toga što današnja razmažena i pokvarena snowflake mladež kojoj je samo do bahanalija i provoda, kupuje samo avokado po supermarketima. Oni su tačno znali gde idu sa time, i na šta udaraju, na njihovo starije čitalaštvo, koje još uvek kupuje papirnate novine. Potpuno prenebregnuvši činjenicu da avokado zapravo košta isto ili čak i jeftinije od mnogo "običnog nefensi voća" oni kreiraju narativ da današnja raskalašna mladež ne može da uštedi pare da kupi porodični dom jer sve pare spucavaju na "patike od 100 funti" ili na "avokado" - gomila ljudi od 60+ pojma nema uopšte šta je avokado niti su ga videli u životu, te im je samo egzotično ime istog asocijacija na nešto strano, daleko, preskupo, i neku ekstravaganciju koja nije za njih, već za bahatu mlađariju.

Ako ste baš dokoni, zapratite profil Pointless Letters. Čovek je napravio ceo tviter profil sakupljajući čudačka pisma gnevnih čitalaca koji umnogome podsećaju na deku Simpsona koji viče i maše pesnicom na oblak ili autobus. Primer par ekselans, gde je neki matori drkadžija napisao pismo duže od mog prosečnog posta gde se mnogo ljuti na sadašnju snowflake generaciju jer država pokušava da obezbedi današnjim policajcima staranje i podršku za ljude koji su zarade stres ili druge mentalne tegobe tokom posla. I opet 1940 i opet "mi to nismo imali, zašto bi sada".

 

 

Sjajan post - dodao bih dve stvari:

- oni stariji ljudi koji su zaista preziveli rat u Evropi, nisu toliko anti-EU nastrojeni kao generacija posto shvataju koju cenu ima mir

- jedna od prvih stvari koja se raspada u UK a bice jos gore ako bude krize je NHS, i time ce ironicno upravo bejbibumeri platiti danak ovom ludilu i to svojim zdravljem i zivotima

- problem je naravno generalizacija, mnogi znaju da je ovo ludilo ali ce ih sistem gde manjina takibanskih penzionera odlucuje pregaziti

[vememah]

Quote

 

MPs have easily passed a backbench amendment seeking to block any attempt by a future government to prorogue parliament to ensure a no-deal Brexit, in what is likely to be seen as a pre-emptive strike against Boris Johnson’s authority.

The amendment, tabled by a cross-party group led by Labour’s Hilary Benn and the Conservatives’ Alistair Burt, passed by an unexpectedly large margin of 41 votes, with 315 MPs backing it and 274 opposed.

One of those to support the measure was the culture, media and sport minister Margot James, who resigned from her post to do so.

Among a series of other ministers who did not vote and who are understood not to have had permission to miss it were the chancellor, Philip Hammond; the justice secretary, David Gauke; the business secretary, Greg Clark; and Rory Stewart, the international development secretary.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/18/mps-pass-amendment-seeking-to-thwart-no-deal-prorogation

Edited July 18, 2019 by vememah

[Gandalf]

 

 

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

 

 

"We used to have our fish and chips in newspaper and then it was deemed that it was wrong. Now, when we used to have our fish and chips in a newspaper there weren't loads of people that went down with tummy upsets and things like that. It had a beautiful smell to it and I can remember that smell now and how lovely it was."

 

"And that was EU?"

 

"Yes, it was something that they [the EU] did. I'm sorry and I do listen to the European parliament and the things that they say should and shouldn't be done. I tell you what, we put billions into Europe; do you see the schools or the health service getting any better in poorer countries? I would like to see them have decent schools and decent health."

 

[Gandalf]

Podsetilo me na fokus grupu u filmu o Brexit kampanji, i anti-EU ženu koja u jednom trenutku krene pričati nešto slično.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Gandalf

[Max Morlock]

Bolest ili budućnost - The comma touch: Jacob Rees-Mogg's aides send language rules to staff

 

Sent from my SM-N950F using controlled substances...

 

 

 

 

[Sludge Factory]

 

 

Pojedinci ladno zamisljaju da obnavljaju Imperiju. 

[hazard]

Dominik Rab upravo pokazao zašto Džonson neće dobiti bilo kakve značajne (tj. nekozmetičke) ustupke od EU:

 

He also backed Johnson's line that the Irish backstop plan, a key pillar of Theresa May's Brexit agreement, has to be ditched, calling it “most obvious glaring flaw in the deal . . . but there are other issues. What I’m not going to do at this particularly sensitive moment is put all of the conversations that we’re going to have on this in the public domain.”

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/dominic-raab-brussels-isnt-the-only-game-in-town/

 

I da nema bekstopa, hardkor ERGovci bi bili protiv sporazuma jer jednostavno ne ispunjava sve njihove bregzit fantazije i žulja ih po više idoloških osnova. Čim se odmah nakon Džonsonovog govora koji je bio fokusiran na bekstop spominju i ,,druge stvari", Briselu će to biti jasno (ako već nije). EU27 neće rizikovati da pojede govno, pogazi sto puta datu reč i kaže može bez bekstopa, samo da UK onda traži još ustupaka.

 

Što nas dovodi do sledeće stvari: niko ni ne veruje Džonsonu da on bilo šta može da progura kroz parlament. Niko sa Terezom Mej nije bio u fazonu da joj je ne veruje da iskreno pregovara i da ne stoji čvrsto iza sporazuma koji je sklopila sa EU. Ali na kraju joj niko nije verovao da bilo šta može da provuče kroz parlament, i zato niko nije hteo više da daje bilo kakve ustupke, pojašnjenja, deklaracije itd. Jedini veći blam za EU27 od toga da prepišu pola sporazuma po Džonsonovim željama bi bio da taj novi sporazum parlament opet odbije tri puta.

 

Dakle, ako ne bude izbora, 31. oktobra UK izlazi bez sporazuma. Ako ih bude i Džonson ih dobije, isto. Ako ih izgubi biće opet produžetak roka.

[vememah]

Čak i ako ih izgubi, ogromno je pitanje hoće li uopšte biti vremena da se zatraži produžetak roka.

[jms_uk]

[pasha]

Zasto protivnici brexita ne organizuju nesto kao Majdan u Kijevu?

Satori, nema razilazenja dok se stetna vlast ne skloni, blokade institucija.

[dragance]

Zato što je društvo podeljeno na pola. Već su bili protesti i ovo samo novi izbori mogu rešiti, tj mogu ako bi se stranke jasno opredelile “mi smo za ref2 ili remain” protiv “mi smo za hard Brexit”.

 

samo, kurac na biciklu kada je budaletina Corbyn lider opozicije.

 

 

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

Praktično i jednostavno rešenje problema granice sa Irskom:

 

 

Brexit inteligencija od početka do kraja ovog ludog eksperimenta.

 

[gospa buba]

jel ja dobro to chitam u 2019 godini

sent from bubamoto