NATO

[ObiW]

Smara redovno šamaranje Nate, no... širenje je počelo pre ~20 godina, a ruskaja vesna se igrala pre 2.

 

 

kad imam dilemu vratim se Kenanu:

 

 

Dobar je Kenanara. Sta su rekli Poljaci kad su procitali da ih je to samo sovjetski rezim karao, Rusi pak nikada?

[ObiW]

Dakle, SAD putem svojih sluzbenika organizuje/znatno podrzi puc sa ulice kojim se obara legitiman demokratski izabran predsednik (ma kakav on bio - svakako ga nije zamenio neko daleko bolji) u zemlji u kojoj Rusija ima ogromne strateske interese (izmedju ostalog i vojne baze koje smatra kljucnim za svoju odbranu), te u kojoj postoji ruska manjina prema kojoj je nova vlast vrlo neprijateljski raspolozena, i onda je iznenadjenje sto je Rusija intervenisala, i najveci problem je ruska intervencija a ne americka i zapadna podrska neonacistickim pucistima sa ulice?

 

Dakle, puc sa ulice obori legitimno demokratski izabranog gospodina premijera Aleksandra Vucica koristeci kao neki pretekst toboznji incident u nekakvoj "savamaloj", na vlast dodje 1 siroka koalicija a za premijera se pogodi da bude onaj Obradovic iz Dveri. Kad ono medjutim, Djarme kazu "a nenene, ne moze to tako da se obara legitimno izabrana vlast gospodina premijera genija Aleka Vucka, vidi ove Dverase kakvi su sad ce da kolju nasu sabracu mirne Magyare u Backoj samo sto nisu", upale tenkove, podignu avione, upadnu u Vojvodinu, pobodu kocice oko Backe i kazu "ovo je sad Magyarska, a vi samo nastavite da obarate vlade legalno izabranih premijera koji su gospoda ljudi i da stavljate fasiste na vlast ako bas insistirate". I niko se ne iznenadi jer legitimno izabrana vlast je legitimno izabrana vlast, jel' te.

 

Kako ti se svidja narativ?

[Eraserhead]

Kod nas su se dogodili izbori na kojima je rezim izgubio a onda pokusao da te izbore pokrade.

 

Ukrajina je vec imala taj scenario, 2004., i on se zavrsio kao i kod nas, porazom rezima. I prema narandzastoj revoluciji sam bio vrlo pozitivno raspolozen i ,,podrzavao" je tada (mislim, deklarativno, smesno da ja sad kao podrzavam ili ne podrzavam nesto u Ukrajini), jer bila upravo to, borba protiv izborne kradje rezima koji je bio na vlasti od '90. i neke.

 

U ovom poslednjem ,,ukrajinskom scenariju" je medjutim rulja u kojoj su dominirali ekstremni desnicari sa ulice preuzela vlast. I to u situaciji kada su izbori i onako trebali da se odrze za nekih 6 meseci. To je zapravo ponistilo ostvarenja narandzaste revolucije - jer kod takvih dogadjaja nije toliko bitno ko ce doci na vlast (i to sto je ,,narandzasta ekipa" ispala slicna/ista bagra kao i prethodna) vec je bitan uspostavljan princip postovanja izborne volje i mirne smenjivosti vlasti. To sve pada u vodu kada ti vlast u sustini menja Desni sektor na ulici.

 

To sto ti i ObiW ne mozete da napravite tu principijelnu razliku je samo zato sto se ne uklapa u vas narativ zlih Rusa i dobrih Amerikanaca.

 

 

Ono sto ti ne shvatas je da se ovde radi o tome da Viki ne pokrece milione i revolucije. Nije moglo u Srbiji, ne moze ni u Ukrajini. Da gradjani Srbije/Ukrajine nisu izasli na ulice ne bi bilo smene Milosevica/Janukovica. To sto pricas je Sputnjik/RTS nacin rezonovanja.  Pitanje izbora i toga da li je trebalo cekati je druga tema. 

[Lord Protector]

Hazarde, mazohisto...

[Prospero]

Dobar je Kenanara. Sta su rekli Poljaci kad su procitali da ih je to samo sovjetski rezim karao, Rusi pak nikada?

Ameri su dali bezbednosnu garanciju protiv opasnosti koja nije postojala, titrajuci istorijskom resentimanu s kojim nisu imali veze, a to je onda pokrenulo novu i losu dinamiku odnosa.

 

To ti kaze Kenanara

 

Bolje da su podrzavali demokratiju u Rusiji, jer bi to resilo vise problema, no, imali smo midgete na delu. Jbg, sad imamo ruski resentiman, a taj je kudikamo zajebaniji od poljskog

 

by Tapatalk

Edited May 13, 2016 by Prospero

[Eraserhead]

Svi se nekako neopravdano plase ruskih akcija iako su 50+ godina bili pod njima a jedino za ruske frustracije i resantimane uvek drugi krivi.

[Lord Protector]

malo bajato, ali ništa se nije promenilo...

 

Germany Still Occupied By US After 58 71 Years

By Christopher Bollyn

9-11-2004

 

POTSDAM, Germany - The Allied occupation of Germany began 58 years ago this month and in the eyes of many Germans has not yet ended. Foreign armies are still based on German soil and Europe's largest and most prosperous "democracy" still lacks a constitution and a peace treaty putting a formal end to the Second World War.

 

For Germany, World War II, like the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, lacks formal legal closure because a peace treaty has never been signed between the Allies and Germany.

 

The stated goal of the Anglo-American forces in Iraq is to liberate the Iraqi people and establish democracy. However, if the U.S. and British occupation of Iraq follows the pattern set by the Allied occupation of Germany, a sovereign democracy in Iraq is not likely to appear in the near future.

 

Although President George W. Bush's much ballyhooed victory speech from the deck of an aircraft carrier was meant to look like the end of the Iraq conflict, it was not, and if the German model is repeated in Iraq, there may never be a formal end to the war in Iraq.

 

While the partly reunified German nation is considered a modern European democracy, it has no constitution other than the temporary Basic Law (Grundgesetz) originally written in 1948 under the guidance of the U.S. military occupation forces and originally meant only to apply to the western parts of Germany under U.S. control. One of the Basic Law's final articles says it is to be replaced when Germany obtains a constitution.

 

Article 23 defining the legal jurisdiction of the Basic Law was removed at the request of former Secretary of State James Baker at a Paris conference of the Allied powers and the two former German states on July 17, 1990. The two German states were legally abolished at this conference and their foreign ministers were only informed of the changes after it had been done. As a result of these changes, the Basic Law does not legally apply to the reunified German state, according to some legal experts.

 

In any case, the Basic Law is incomplete and contradictory and, therefore, cannot serve as a proper constitution. For example, Article 139 states that "legal provisions" concerning Nazism and German militarism are "not affected" by the Basic Law. This article indicates that the numerous Allied occupation laws and proclamations remain in effect in spite of the Basic Law.

 

"Article 139 is a little contradictory," Christian Tomuschat, professor of German constitutional law at Berlin's Humboldt University, told American Free Press. Despite the obvious problems with the temporary Basic Law, which has never been ratified by a vote of the people, Tomuschat says it is a valid German constitution in his opinion. "The Grundgesetz is the constitution - it just has a different name," he said.

 

There is no movement in Germany towards creating a constitution, according to Tomuschat, who says a proper constitution is not as important as the unemployment problem: "Jobs are now more important than a constitution," Tomuschat told AFP.

 

The fact that the flawed and temporary Basic Law serves as Germany's de facto constitution is unacceptable to Wolfgang Gerhard Günter Ebel, Germany's provisional Reichskanzler. Ebel heads the provisional government that claims to be the legal successor to the Second German Reich, which was replaced by Adolf Hitler's illegal Third Reich (1933-45).

 

"Germany rests on the 2nd Reich" and on the constitution of the Weimar Republic created on August 11, 1919, Ebel told AFP.

 

In 1987, the Allies requested that Ebel submit a copy of the 1919 original Weimar constitution of the German Reich, which he did. This is the only legal constitution for Germany, according to Ebel, until a peace treaty is signed.

 

The Allies recognized the legal boundaries of the German Reich from December 31, 1937. These borders include the occupied German lands of East Prussia, Pomerania, and Silesia, the final status of which was meant to be determined in a peace settlement.

 

This peace settlement never happened. The so-called Final Settlement of Sept. 12, 1990 called for the existing border between Poland and Germany to be confirmed and for Germany to relinquish any territorial claims in the future. The status of East Prussia and the capital city of Königsberg, which was occupied and renamed by the Soviet Union in 1945, is not mentioned in the Final Settlement.

 

According to the provisional government, the Final Settlement is not valid because it was negotiated and signed by the foreign ministers of the two German states, the BRD and the DDR, both of which legally ceased to exist after the Paris conference of July 17, 1990.

 

"The German government is illegal," Ebel told AFP, "and what they do has no basis in law." Asked how it could be that the German people are unaware of this situation, Ebel said: "The German media is still under the control of the Allies. The entire media is controlled.

 

"The Second World War has not ended, because a peace treaty has not been signed between Germany and the Allies," " Ebel says, "The peace contract is the most important thing that we need and want."

 

Because there is no formal peace treaty between Germany and the Allies, headed by the United States, German sovereignty is compromised. "Until we have a peace treaty, Germany is a colony of the United States," John Kornblum of the U.S. State Dept. told Ebel on Oct. 20, 1985. Kornblum is now employed by Lazar Bank in Berlin, according to Ebel.

 

Some 80,000 U.S. military personnel are permanently based in Germany and Britain also continues to base troops and military equipment in the western German zone they formerly occupied. It is not uncommon to see British tanks on the streets of the area near Münster in Westphalia.

 

U.S. occupation laws handed down by the Supreme Headquarter Allied Expeditionary Force (SHAEF) are still in effect, Ebel said. The first law, Proclamation No. 1, making General Dwight D. Eisenhower supreme authority in the areas under U.S. control was signed on Feb. 13, 1944. Allied authorities have informed Ebel that these SHAEF laws will remain in effect for 60 years from the date of signing and apply to all of Europe.

 

Calls to the U.S. State Department in Washington and the U.S. Embassy in Berlin concerning the validity of SHAEF laws and U.S. occupation proclamations in Germany were not returned.

 

"When there is a peace treaty - when the wound is healed - many things will change," Ebel says, "not only for Germany, but for the whole world.

 

"The United Nations is also provisional - if there is a peace treaty between Germany and the Allies [primarily the United States] - the UN will cease to exist as we know it," Ebel said. The UN organization was founded in 1945 and originated with the 26 nations that had joined the anti-Nazi coalition in 1942. By 1944 the coalition had grown to include 47 nations.

 

The UN Charter contains "enemy state clauses" [Articles 53 and 107], which were established because of Germany and name it as the "enemy state."

 

"The Bundesrepublik Deutschland (the former West German state) is not the legal successor or inheritor of the Second German Reich," according to Ebel. For this reason a legal peace treaty cannot be signed by the current German government in Berlin, he said.

 

"Until the real government is established and voted by the people," Ebel said, the provisional government is necessary to "fulfill the role of the legal German government."

 

The Allies have authorized Ebel to serve as head of the provisional government, he says. A civil servant with the German railroad, Ebel was born in Berlin in 1939 and is a citizen of the German Reich, having never held citizenship of either German state that resulted from the Second World War. Berlin was a separate zone and "has never been part of the BRD or DDR," Ebel said.

 

Ebel was first appointed by the U.S. Military Court in Berlin to serve as Rechtskonsulent for Prussia on Sept. 23, 1980.

 

On Jan. 9, 1984, the U.S. State Department in Berlin appointed Ebel to serve as the head of the German railroad (Reichsbahn) in West Berlin. Exactly forty years after the German military (Wehrmacht) surrendered, on May 8, 1985, Ebel was appointed as Transportation Minister for the German Reich by the U.S. High Commissioner in Germany, who he says was then U.S. Ambassador to West Germany (BRD) Richard Burt.

 

Finally, on Sept. 27, 2000, Ebel was appointed chancellor of the German Reich (Reichskanzler) by Ernst Matscheko, a representative of the U.S. Dept. of Justice. Matscheko reportedly asked Ebel to name a Reichspräsident and a special ambassador to the United Nations.

 

The U.S. Embassy in Berlin will neither confirm nor deny the claims made by Ebel, for which he presents documents as evidence. A spokesman at the U.S. Embassy told AFP: "We are not responsible for what they [the Reich's government] claim."

 

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by slow

[MancMellow]

Kao što sam napisao jednom, iako, naravno, nemam nikakav dokument da to potvrdim, mislim da održanje potrebe za prisustvom u Srednjeistočnoj Evropi ima takođe, osim Rusije, i neizrečenu nameru držanja Nemačke pod budnim okom. Obzirom na široko prihvaćen stav angloameričke istoriografije da je političko povlačenje iz tog dela Evrope između dva rata bila greška, ovakav smer razmišljanja mi se čini i logičan i verovatan. 

[Gandalf]

Ameri su dali bezbednosnu garanciju protiv opasnosti koja nije postojala, titrajuci istorijskom resentimanu s kojim nisu imali veze, a to je onda pokrenulo novu i losu dinamiku odnosa.

 

To ti kaze Kenanara

 

Bolje da su podrzavali demokratiju u Rusiji, jer bi to resilo vise problema, no, imali smo midgete na delu. Jbg, sad imamo ruski resentiman, a taj je kudikamo zajebaniji od poljskog

 

by Tapatalk

[Prospero]

Svi se nekako neopravdano plase ruskih akcija iako su 50+ godina bili pod njima a jedino za ruske frustracije i resantimane uvek drugi krivi.

Pa nisu jer nije isto SSSR i Rusija 90ih (jesu li isto SFRJ i Srbija?), to je besmisleno rigidno tumacenje.

 

Nije stvar krivice niti opravdanja nego uticaja. NATO moze sta hoce, odluke o sirenju nisu nelegitimne samo je pitanje cemu sluze i sta postizu.

 

Nemacka je naoruzana 10 godina posle 2SR i sranja koja je napravila, i ukljucena u kolektivnu bezbednost Z. Evrope kao skroro ravnopravni clan a i I. Nemacka u VU.

 

Ako se Rusija shvata organski kao nepromenljiva velicina, dakle SSSR=RF (sto je fakticka budalastina i 1 antiintelektualno brbljanje) onda se moraju i ljudski prihvatiti posledice takvog stava a to je da te Moskva smatra za neprijatelja sa svim pratecim asortimanom.

 

Zato je Kenan lepo rekao - intelektualni midžeti, tj majstori trivijalnih "resenja", politikanti koji nisu umeli da organizuju panevropaki bezbednosni poredak posle pobede u Hladnom ratu.

 

by Tapatalk

[Prospero]

 

Ameri su dali bezbednosnu garanciju protiv opasnosti koja nije postojala, titrajuci istorijskom resentimanu s kojim nisu imali veze, a to je onda pokrenulo novu i losu dinamiku odnosa.

 

To ti kaze Kenanara

 

Bolje da su podrzavali demokratiju u Rusiji, jer bi to resilo vise problema, no, imali smo midgete na delu. Jbg, sad imamo ruski resentiman, a taj je kudikamo zajebaniji od poljskog

 

by Tapatalk

Pa to vazi i za Rusija = SSSR dakle nivi Hladni rat.

 

Ako Rusiju stalno smatras za neprijatelja onda ce se ona u nekom trenutku zaista postaviti kao neprijatelj.

 

by Tapatalk

[frn1782]

Hladni rat se nikada nije ni zavrsio to su price za debile.

Sta je bilo u glavi onom celavom s flekom samo Bog zna.

Nato shirenje na istok je prica koja je ispricana vec 2 puta u poslednjih 200g

Mozda kontaju treca sreca

[Dagmar]

Svi se nekako neopravdano plase ruskih akcija iako su 50+ godina bili pod njima a jedino za ruske frustracije i resantimane uvek drugi krivi.

 

Ako se ne plaše nemačkih akcija, a ne plaše se, nemaju onda nikakav razlog da se plaše ruskih. Jasno je da u u pitanju emotivna a ne racionalna ponašanja.

[Lord Protector]

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd-Helmut_Komossa

 

Ako je tajni ''sporazum'' potpisan 1949. i ima važnost 90 godina Nemačka će postati slobodna država 2039. godine...

Edited May 13, 2016 by slow

[Eraserhead]

 

 

 

 

 

Je li guglas ti nekad ove autore pre nego sto postujes nesto? Cisto da proveris da nisu neki potpuni ludaci.