DOOM! DOOM IS UPON US! (Raspad naseg drustva, pbp)

[Lezilebovich]

da bi se videlo koliko robovi mogu da trpe. ne bi me cudilo da su cak i iz snsa ponudili prvo tu lokaciju

Edited June 4, 2017 by Lezilebovich

[Simon]

Није тражено уосталом ништа званично, и можда од тога не буде ништа, али смо свакако излуфтали мишљења.

[Notorious]

et Lezilebovich

Tako nekako ili još gore, morbidno cinično, ali ostavljam mogućnost da možda preterujem. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Notorious

[Aion]

Ko su opste ovi sto su trazili, je li to nemacki drzavni organ ili je NVO?

[Notorious]

Није тражено уосталом ништа званично, и можда од тога не буде ништа, али смо свакако излуфтали мишљења.

 

Simone, svaki civilizovan ljudski odnos se zasniva na obostranom uvažavanju, ukoliko druga strana ne poštuje elementarbne norme, uzalud ćeš se upinjati da održiš privid civilizovanosti, jer asimetričan odnos naprosto nije civilizovan. 

[mire]

ej, bre, u kragujevcu!?!

 

jebem mater u usta svakom ko da i mrvicu opravdanja za, ah, molbu kroz zahtev

[Miralem]

Не користим Википедију него углавном оригиналне странице на језицима које знам.

http://www.volksbund.de/kriegsgraeberstaetten.html

ovaj izvor ti je bolji: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1278340/

[Krošek]

Ko su opste ovi sto su trazili, je li to nemacki drzavni organ ili je NVO?

 

nvo, ali zadatke u inostranstvu finansira država (pise na vikipediji), a i izgleda da imaju stogodišnju saradnju sa vlastima tako da se distinkcija lagano gubi...

 

ova vest da su trazili je po mom misljenju verodostojna i ne fali nikakav bitan element. to spada u redovne aktivnosti udruženja, mada, navodno uskoro će okončati misiju pravljenja grobnica jer je najveći deo posla završen

 

spigel, 2012

Database of Fallen Soldiers

Germany Still Locates 40,000 War Casualties a Year

The German War Graves Commission launched a campaign on Tuesday, the 67th anniversary of the end of World War II, to promote its online database as a way for relatives to trace missing soldiers. Some 40,000 are located and reburied each year across Eastern Europe and Russia -- where its teams still encounter hostility from locals who remember the murderous occupation.

Some 3 million German soldiers died in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe in World War II, and the fate of hundreds of thousands of them remains unknown to their relatives and descendants.

 

 

On Tuesday, May 8, the 67th anniversary of Nazi Germany's capitulation and the end of the war in Europe, the German War Graves Commission launched a campaign inviting people to consult its online database, which contains information on 4.6 million soldiers killed or missing in action.

"People are still looking for missing relatives today. But many have given up hope. Maybe they don't know that the commission can provide answers," Martin Dodenhoeft, head of communications at the organization, said in a statement. "That is why we have started a radio campaign to tell a broad audience about this possibility offered by the Internet."

The end of the Cold War over two decades ago enabled the organization to start locating grave sites, identifying bodies and re-interring them in new cemeteries across Russia and the Eastern European countries invaded by the German army.

 

Some 716,000 German war dead have been found and reburied since then, and that number increases by 40,000 each year, the commission said. The database processes some 20,000 searches per month."We're concentrating the graves. We can't preserve all of the hundred thousand sites where soldiers are buried, so we built new large ones or expanded existing ones, Fritz Kirchmeier, spokesman for the commission, told 

 

'We Still Encounter Massive Resentment'

"We expect to scale down our activities in 2017 or 2018 because we are finding fewer bodies and it is becoming more costly to retrieve them. We're running out of money." The commission, which is largely funded by donations, hopes to find a further 250,000 bodies by then.

 

Soldiers were often buried hastily where they fell, or near field dressing stations and hospitals where they died of their wounds.

Most of the burial sites are unmarked, and some are mass graves, said Kirchmeier. "We have gathered a lot of records from the war and we use them to locate cemeteries. Then our staff travel there to try to pinpoint them.

"We rely on the help of local eyewitnesses, which is a further aspect putting us under time pressure because these people are of course very old and we won't be able to ask them in 10 years' time. We often come too late. Sites have often been plundered by people who searched the graves looking for items they can sell."

Sometimes, the commission's teams get a hostile reception.

"Some people are happy when the dead are taken away from their land but occasionally we still encounter massive resentment by local people," said Kirchmeier. "The memory of the occupation by the Germans and of the war crimes is still very alive."

The war claimed 20 million lives in the Soviet Union and 6 million in Poland alone. The forces of Nazi Germany laid waste to vast swaths of the land they conquered in a war of annihilation that targeted civilians from the start.

Often, the search teams can't reach the graves because roads or buildings have been constructed on top them.

 

Only Sites With At Least 50 Bodies Get Searched

"If the graves are on farmland, we have to deal with the owner and usually do the exhumation after the harvest," said Kirchmeier. "Then we restore everything to its original state, which makes the search even more expensive."

Since the early 1990s, the commission has restored or newly built more than 300 cemeteries from World War II and 190 from World War I in Central, Southeastern and Eastern Europe as well as Russia.

Individual graves, even sites containing dozens of soldiers, are deemed too insignificant to warrant an exhumation, said Kirchmeier.

"We only search for sites with just one or two bodies in exceptional cases when family members ask us to, but it's unproductive because the cost is very high. We usually don't try to trace any sites that contain fewer than 50 bodies -- at least not yet."

Soldiers are identified by their dogtags or with the help of original army records showing the layout of burial sites.

 

"If we can identify one soldier, it makes it possible to identify neighboring graves where the remains may not have dogtags -- if we have records of who was buried where," said Kirchmeier.

The commission runs a total of 824 war cemeteries in 45 countries, containing a total 2.4 million dead. It employs some 9,000 voluntary workers and has a paid staff of 582.

 

 

 

ima jos: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-to-open-last-wwii-war-cemetery-in-russia-a-914093.html

 

Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge

On Saturday, German Defense Minister Thomas de Maizière will hold a speech at the official opening of a war cemetery at the town of Dukhovschina, near the city of Smolensk in western Russia. It currently contains a total of 30,513 freshly interred German war dead, of whom 16,300 have been identified. It will eventually grow to 70,000, bigger even than Germany's vast World War I cemeteries in northeastern France and Belgium.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Krošek

[Simon]

Simone, svaki civilizovan ljudski odnos se zasniva na obostranom uvažavanju, ukoliko druga strana ne poštuje elementarbne norme, uzalud ćeš se upinjati da održiš privid civilizovanosti, jer asimetričan odnos naprosto nije civilizovan.

 

@ноториоус на побољшању цивилизованих људских односа и међусобном уважавању треба радити ако је асиметричан. Ја увијек се држим тога да људи могу и знају боље него што нам се понекад чини.

[teacher]

žao mi je što ih više nismo pobili, ali ima vremena...

[Leia]

Za svaki narod je to nesto najbolje sto moze da uradi. Problem je sto se ocekuje od drugih a svoja govna se uvek opravdavaju (u okviru mogucnosti) na ovaj ili onaj nacin. Pa recimo Turci ne priznaju genocid nad Jermenima, a zasto - zato sto ne moraju jer ih niko jos uvek nije naterao. Zapravo svaka drzava smatra negiranje istorije za svoju duznost i najprirodniji interes.

pa jeste najbolje, ali sto kazes samo dok to rade drugi a mi seirimo na svom moralnom pijedestalu.

drzave koje su kolonizovale i tlacile pola sveta sad sebi daju za pravo da drugima drze lekcije a nemci koji su iz frusta zbog nemanja kolonija pokretali svetske ratove sad prednjace u mudrijastvu ovog tipa.

a onda se jos nadju über mudrijasi cije su pretke ovi tamanili kao bubasvabe (pun intended) da nama neosvestenima i necivilizovanima objasne kako je svugde u svetu.

mislim jeste vrucina al aj malo da se umijemo ladnom vodom ako mozak drugacije nece da proradi

[Krošek]

povodom onih linkova sa prethodne teme (pogledajte ako vam je promaklo) privremeno ću da suspendujem svoje završavanje priče sa dodatkom da: ne podržavam ovo udruženje i podizanje krstača poraženim vojskama, prvi, drugi rat, nebitno. to ne menja moje principijelno protivljenje davanju zvaničnog simboličkog značenja neoznačenim grobovima, kao vidu fetišizacije i naturalizacije neposredno zatečenog stanja posle bitke. taj stav "e baš tako i treba i mora" bez ikakve refleksije je ono čemu moram da se protivim jer to po mojim fundamentalnim shvatanjima nije stav čistog istorijskog pobednika nego nekakvo lutanje, gubljenje u generacijskim ehoima nasilja. i to nema parelelu sa taktički sakrivenim grobovima nacističkim vođama, to je stvarno nešto različito.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Krošek

[Notorious]

@ноториоус на побољшању цивилизованих људских односа и међусобном уважавању треба радити ако је асиметричан. Ја увијек се држим тога да људи могу и знају боље него што нам се понекад чини.

 

Samo pod uslovom da druga strana našu dobru volju ne koristi za produbljivanje asimetrije, što je, nažalost, uobičajena praksa u odnosima jačih i slabijih. 

[mire]

kakvi, bre, stručni izrazi, kragujevac, je bo te

 

šumarice

 

đaci

 

deca, eeeeejjjj

[Miralem]

povodom onih linkova sa prethodne teme (pogledajte ako vam je promaklo) privremeno ću da suspendujem svoje završavanje priče sa dodatkom da: ne podržavam ovo udruženje i podizanje krstača poraženim vojskama, prvi, drugi rat, nebitno. to ne menja moje principijelno protivljenje davanju zvaničnog simboličkog značenja neoznačenim grobovima, kao vidu fetišizacije i naturalizacije neposredno zatečenog stanja posle bitke. taj stav "e baš tako i treba i mora" bez ikakve refleksije je ono čemu moram da se protivim jer to po mojim fundamentalnim shvatanjima nije stav čistog istorijskog pobednika nego nekakvo lutanje, gubljenje u generacijskim ehoima nasilja. i to nema parelelu sa taktički sakrivenim grobovima nacističkim vođama, to je stvarno nešto različito.

da nisi kreten kakav jesi, ne bi ti promaklo da se ovde ne radi o nekoj porazenoj vojsci, vec o nacistima. e sad, posto jesi kreten, samo nastavi- nista te ne moze zaustaviti. osim ako bi se moderacija smilovala da te posalje da malo izucavas istoriju van foruma.