Crtice o prvom svetskom ratu

[Roger Sanchez]

Pras! Pa disti nama bia? Sve najbolje! Falia si nam!

[Прслин]

Све најбоље и теби, Роџере. Фалили сте и ви мени па сам се зато и вратио.

[Otto Katz]

Hristos se rodi, Pras! Inače dok te nije bilo ujedinili smo se pod zastavom JVuO i Draža nas vodi do pobede i veličine. U neđelju stižemo na RG! Mnoge smo bojeve vojevali i nebrojene muke pretrpjeli, a sve bez tebe. Jedino hapšenje Gestapa te može opravdati.

[Turnbull]

Торијевци су традиционалисти који нису стању да се искрено сврстају уз државе са тридесетогодишњим традицијама или нације оформљене у 21. веку. Шта ће људи када су нешто и читали у животу, као и Боб Дилан, уосталом.

Ma, ofkors.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ae3mVerKo0

Stop the Serbs. Now. For Good.By Margaret ThatcherPublished: May 04, 1994

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We have been here so many times before in the Bosnian saga: acts of barbarism by the Serbs, the mobilization of a shocked international conscience, threats of air strikes (or actual air strikes, of the most limited kind), a tactical Serbian withdrawal, more talks aimed at persuading the warring parties to accept a carving up of territory that rewards aggression. Then the Serbs move on to yet another Bosnian community, applying the same mixture of violence and intimidation to secure their aim of an ethnically pure Greater Serbia.The tragedy of Gorazde may for now at least be over. But there are other towns of equal strategic interest on which the Serbs are now free to concentrate their forces. Yesterday the U.N. intervened to head off a Serbian attempt to expand the Brcko corridor in northern Bosnia, but such interventions merely divert Serbian aggression. It is time to halt it -- late, but not too late. We have the justification, the interest and the means.A sovereign state, recognized by the world community, is under attack from forces encouraged and supplied by another power. This is not a civil war but a war of aggression, planned and launched from outside Bosnia though using the Serbian minority within it. The principle of self-defense precedes and underlies the United Nations Charter. The legitimate Government of Bosnia has every right to call upon our assistance in defending its territory. That is ample justification for helping the victims of aggression.And both the United States and Europe have real and important strategic interests in Bosnia. Let me note four of them.First, after all that the West, NATO and the U.N. have now said, the credibility of our international stance on every security issue from nuclear nonproliferation to the Middle East is now at stake.Second, would-be aggressors are waiting to see how we deal with the Serbs. Our weakness in the Balkans would have dangerous and unpredictable consequences in the former Soviet Union, which has Slavic nationalist forces that closely parallel those of Greater Serbianism. And throughout Eastern and Central Europe there are minorities that aggressive mother-states might be tempted to manipulate to provoke conflict, if that is allowed to pay in the case of Serbia.Third, Serbia's own ambitions are by no means necessarily limited to Croatia and Bosnia. Kosovo is a powder keg. Macedonia is fragile. Bulgaria, Hungary, Greece, Albania and Turkey all have strong interests that could drag them into a new Balkan war if Serbian expansion and oppression continue unchecked.Fourth, the floods of refugees that would cross Europe -- particularly in the event of such a wider conflict -- would further inflame extremist tendencies and undermine the stability of Western governments. The West has the means -- the technology and the weapons -- to change the balance of military advantage against the aggressor in Bosnia. Since the beginning of the Serbian war of aggression, which began in the summer of 1991 in Slovenia, intensified in Croatia and is now consuming Bosnia, I have opposed the sending of ground troops to the former Yugoslavia. But I have said that humanitarian aid without a military response is a misguided policy. Feeding or evacuating the victims rather than helping them resist aggression makes us accomplices as much as good Samaritans.So I have consistently called for action of two sorts: the launching of air strikes against Serb forces, communications centers and ammunition dumps; and the lifting of the arms embargo on Bosnia and Croatia so that the Muslims and Croats can defend themselves on more equal terms against the Serbs, who inherited the massive armaments of the Yugoslavian Army.

[Miralem]

jbt, ovog nema na forumu mesecima... pa se vratio upravo u momentu kada sam, umesto da posaljem pm, potrosio pare na sms.

[Dr Arslanagić]

Ma, ofkors.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ae3mVerKo0

Nisam mislio na nju (kod koje antisrpski stav proizlazi iz sitnoburžoaskog antikomunizma a Srbi=Commies) već na staru, aristokratsku jezgru Torijevaca (doduše sada je već upitno koliko je ta baza uticajna) čije je viđenje sveta neretko lepenovsko, da se tako izrazim.

[Прслин]

Hristos se rodi, Pras! Inače dok te nije bilo ujedinili smo se pod zastavom JVuO i Draža nas vodi do pobede i veličine. U neđelju stižemo na RG! Mnoge smo bojeve vojevali i nebrojene muke pretrpjeli, a sve bez tebe. Jedino hapšenje Gestapa te može opravdati.

Ваистину се роди. О осталом када прође празник.

Ma, ofkors.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ae3mVerKo0

Објаснио Арбајтман: не воле озбиљни људи комуњаре, али морам да се осврнем на тренутак у коме си схватио да се слажеш са Маргарет Тачер ;)

jbt, ovog nema na forumu mesecima... pa se vratio upravo u momentu kada sam, umesto da posaljem pm, potrosio pare na sms.

Ћути, могао си к'о Топола да трснеш пар сома на бензин :)

[vodebele]

Ja imam još bolje ^_^

Which brings me to the crisis in Kosovo that is in all our thoughts this evening.Last September I went to Vukovar, a city destroyed and its inhabitants butchered by the soldiers of Slobodan Milosevic. The place still smells of death, the widows weep, and the ruins gape. Around Srebrenica, where neither I nor many other Westerners have gone, the bodies of thousands of slaughtered victims still lie in unmarked graves. In Kosovo, we can only imagine what depravities of human wickedness, what depths of human degradation, those endless columns of refugees have fled. Mass rape, mass graves, death camps, historic communities wiped out by ethnic cleansing - these are the monuments to Milosevic's triumphs.They are also, let's remember and admit, the result of eight long years of Western weakness. When will they ever learn?Appeasement has failed in the 1990s, as it failed in the 1930s. Then, there were always politicians to argue that the madness of Nazism could be contained and that a reckoning could somehow be avoided. In our own day too there has never been a lack of politicians and diplomats willing to collaborate with Milosevic's Serbia. At each stage, both in the thirties and in the nineties, the tyrant carefully laid his snares, and na�ve negotiators obligingly fell into them.For eight years I have called for Serbia to be stopped. Even after the massacre of Srebrenica I was told that my calls for military action were mere "emotional nonsense", words which, I think, only a man could have uttered.But there were also good reasons for taking action early. The West could have stopped Milosevic in Slovenia or Croatia in 1991, or in Bosnia in 1992. But instead we deprived his opponents of the means to arm themselves, thus allowing his aggression to prosper.Even in 1995, when at last a combination of airstrikes and well-armed Croat and Muslim ground forces broke the power of the Bosnian Serb aggressors, we intervened to halt their advance onto Banja Luka, and so avoid anything that might threaten Milosevic. Even then, Western political leaders believed that the butcher of Belgrade could be a force for stability. So here we are now, fighting a war eight years too late, on treacherous terrain, so far without much effective local support, with imperfect intelligence, and with war aims that some find unclear and unpersuasive.But with all that said - and it must be said, so that the lessons are well and truly learned - let there be no doubt: this is a war that must be won.I understand the unease that many feel about the way in which this operation began. But those who agonise over whether what is happening in Kosovo today is really of sufficient importance to justify our military intervention, gravely underestimate the consequences of doing nothing. There is always method in Milosevic's madness. He is a master at using human tides of refugees to destabilise his neighbours and weaken his opponents. And that we simply cannot now allow. The surrounding countries just can't absorb two million Albanian refugees without provoking a new spiral of violent disintegration, possibly involving Nato members.But the over-riding justification for military action is quite simply the nature of the enemy we face. We are not dealing with some minor thug whose local brutalities may offend our sensibilities from time to time. Milosevic's regime and the genocidal ideology that sustains it represent something altogether different - a truly monstrous evil; one which cannot with safety be merely checked or contained; one which must be totally defeated and be seen by the Serbs themselves to be defeated.When that has been done, we need to learn the lessons of what has happened and of the warnings that were given but ignored. But this is not the time. There has already been too much media speculation about targets and tactics, and some shameful and demoralising commentary which can only help the enemy. So I shall say nothing of detailed tactics here tonight.But two things more I must say.First, about our fundamental aims. It would be both cruel and stupid to expect the Albanian Kosovans now to return to live under any form of Serbian rule. Kosovo must be given independence, initially under international protection. And there must be no partition, a plan that predictable siren voices are already advancing. Partition would only serve to reward violence and ethnic cleansing. It would be to concede defeat. And I am unmoved by Serb pleas to retain their grasp on most of Kosovo because it contains their holy places. Coming from those who systematically levelled Catholic churches and Muslim mosques wherever they went, such an argument is cynical almost to the point of blasphemy.Second, about the general conduct of the war. There are, in the end, no humanitarian wars. War is serious and it is deadly. In wars risk is inevitable and casualties, including alas civilian casualties, are to be expected. Trying to fight a war with one hand tied behind your back is the way to lose it. We always regret the loss of lives. But we should have no doubt that it is not our troops or pilots, but the men of evil, who bear the guilt.The goal of war is victory. And the only victory worth having now is one that prevents Serbia ever again having the means to attack its neighbours and terrorise its non-Serb inhabitants. That will require the destruction of Serbia's political will, the destruction of its war machine and all the infrastructure on which these depend. We must be prepared to cope with all the changing demands of war - including, if that is what is required, the deployment of ground troops. And we must expect a long haul until the job is done.

Nego, cekaj, zasto je ovo Megino "antisrpski" stav? Osim onog lupetanja o komunistima Srbima i malko™ pojednostavljene ocene Hrvata kao strastvenih demokrata, ovo je otprilike ta prica koja se zapatila u regionu i (jos vaznije) s obe strane Atlantika.Priča koju ćemo kad-tad morati početi prihvatati. :)

[Прслин]

Па, антисрпска је у смислу да је анти српска. Не видим како то може да ти промакне, Тачерка није баш крила тај сентимент. А то шта ћемо "морати почети прихватати" (или, како ми у Србији волимо да кажемо "морати да почнемо да прихватамо"), то ми ништа није јасно. Је л' да прихватамо да је бласфемија што се бунимо када нам Албанци руше и спаљују цркве (како каже Меги) или да прихватимо да то није антисрпски став. Молим појашњење, скроз сам си се дао збунит.

[MancMellow]

Nisam mislio na nju (kod koje antisrpski stav proizlazi iz sitnoburžoaskog antikomunizma a Srbi=Commies) već na staru, aristokratsku jezgru Torijevaca (doduše sada je već upitno koliko je ta baza uticajna) čije je viđenje sveta neretko lepenovsko, da se tako izrazim.

da, otprilike to je to.

[Turnbull]

Da, da, rivers of blood i taj rad.

[vodebele]

Boris Johnson je rivers of blood. Superishka.

[Kampokei]

Mozda nas Borisha stvarno simpatise. Ja sam negde jedared procitao Borisovu izjavu o tome kako Srbi treba da budu ponosni na otpor koji su pruzili 1999. Mislim da je to rekao netom posto je potpisan sporazum u junu 1999, ali sam izjavu (kojoj sad na guglu nikako da udjem u trag) video negde na netu dobrano posle toga, mislim da je vec tada bio gradonacelnik Londre.

[Turnbull]

Boris Johnson je rivers of blood. Superishka.

E, aj uloži minimum napora da pratiš razgovor.

[Topola]

Ћути, могао си к'о Топола да трснеш пар сома на бензин :)

Na planini na Jelici Rudniku, sastali se svi...