Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[Budja]

Uhm, ne znam na šta misliš kod Koštunice. Drugo, računi se polažu na kraju mandata, a ne mesec dana po preuzimanju ministarstava. Međutim, mnogi su požurili. 

 

To da, ali rani znaci su tu.

[MancMellow]

To da, ali rani znaci su tu.

 

Usled okonosti ja im dajem the benefit of the doubt, pa ćemo videti ko je bio u pravu, a i okolnosti će se menjati, ubeđen sam, mada nisam ubeđen da znam na koju stranu i kako. 

[hazard]

[Frank Pembleton]

Pa kako drugacije objasniti ;)

[Budja]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31780354

 

 

Greece 'eyes tourists as amateur tax inspectors'

The Greek government could hire "non-professional" tax inspectors, including tourists, to spy on tax evaders, according to a leaked document.

Students and housewives could also be used as part of the reported scheme to tackle fraud, which could include hidden cameras and recording devices.

It is said to be one of the ideas Greece will raise at a meeting of eurozone finance ministers on Monday.

It needs to convince them it is serious about reform to receive further credit.

Eurozone leaders want to extend help on Greece's €240bn (£176bn; $272bn) bailout until the end of June in return for commitments to further reform.

The leaked document, a letter reportedly sent by Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis to Eurogroup president Jeroen Dijsselbloem, was seen by the Financial Times newspaper and AFP news agency.

"The culture of tax avoidance runs deep within Greek society," the letter reportedly says.

"Tax authorities are not only understaffed but immersed in the logic of book-checking when the real problem lies off the books."

Informal tax inspectors would be hired on a "strictly short-term casual basis - no longer than two months and without any prospect of being rehired".

Mr Varoufakis is quoted as saying that the very news that there were thousands of casual onlookers carrying spying equipment on behalf of the tax authorities could shift attitudes quickly.

The amateur inspectors would be able to go to places traditional tax inspectors would be wary of visiting such as nightclubs and medical facilities, he added.

The proposal was immediately received with some scepticism, the BBC's world affairs correspondent Mike Wooldridge reports.

Other proposals reportedly include taxing online gambling, streamlining the bureaucracy and activating an existing plan for an independent watchdog to monitor government fiscal policy.

The new government also wants to spend more money to help those who have been hardest hit by the country's long recession.

 

Naravno da ovao pisanje treba shvatiti sa skepsom, no od pocetka mi se cini da ce tajkuni sluziti za pricu a da ce "fiskalne kase" da rade posao, tj. suzbijace se poreska evazija malih preduzetnika a ove velike kad uhvate, uhvate.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Budja

[MancMellow]

pa ne nego bi trebalo da odmah posalju jedno hiljadu poreznika u 30 najvecih kompanija i ujedno istog momenta stave i rampu na transfer novca iz zemlje :) samo idioti najavljuju cesljanje velikih riba preko novina. Na stranu sto bi im od tih hiljadu jedno bar 300 dojavilo sta se sprema. Dakle - videcemo. 

 

A drugo, ako si video ono istrazivnje ispostavilo se da najveci deo (u apsolutnom iznosu po profesiji) poreske evazije dolazi od - lekara.

 

Uostalom, ovde je bilo zalbi da "ceo narod" potkrada drzavu, pa...eto 

Edited March 7, 2015 by MancMellow

[Luther]

Pa i potkrada ceo narod tj svako ko može, nije to žalba nego činjenica koja je dovoljno dobro dokumentovana na više mesta. Upravo zaposleni u većim kompanijama ne mogu da kriju prihode pošto idu preko računa. Tamo gde radi keš je druga priča. Kompanije mogu naravno da kriju prihode na više načina i verovatno to i čine. Ako sam dobro razumeo brodovlanici ili njihove kompanije ne plaćaju porez kao ni crkva. Eto prilike da Syriza to promeni i ja im iskreno želim da uspeju. Samo i tu treba da su oprezni pa da ne kolju vola za kilo mesa. 

 

Poreska evazija ljudi sa visokim primanjima je postala međunarodno zlo i zahteva međunaredno rešenje. Ali  mislim uporedu sa time i redefinisanje uloge  države i njenog obima koji se nezadrživo širi pa time zahteva i sve veća sredstva koja se onda traže u sve višim porezima. 

[Prospero]

'druga dražića. molim....'

[MancMellow]

'druga dražića. molim....'

 

:D

[namenski]

brodovlanici ili njihove kompanije ne plaćaju porez ...

Brodovlasnici u brodovlasnickom delu svog posla (kazem brodovlasnickom posto Latsis-i i drustvo imaju po Grckoj pipke dobrano i van toga) sa poreskom pricom nemaju mnogo veze, bas kao ni u drugim takozvanim razvijenim zemljama.

Ima veze sa Liberijama, Panamama, itd, itd, imalo je i sa Grckom koja je bila povoljna zastava za upis brodova sve dok nije postala clanica EU.

[Luther]

Brodovlasnici u brodovlasnickom delu svog posla (kazem brodovlasnickom posto Latsis-i i drustvo imaju po Grckoj pipke dobrano i van toga) sa poreskom pricom nemaju mnogo veze, bas kao ni u drugim takozvanim razvijenim zemljama.

Ima veze sa Liberijama, Panamama, itd, itd, imalo je i sa Grckom koja je bila povoljna zastava za upis brodova sve dok nije postala clanica EU.

 

Bojim se da će morati da imaju bez obzira gde su im brodovi registrovani. Kompanije su im registrovane u Grčkoj. Uostalom i oni su toga svesni.Neki porez bi morali da im uvedu, pazeći naravno da ne preteraju pa da ovi pobegnu. Mislim da bi im se u protivnom sa moralne tačke raspao plan da oporezuju bogate pojedince i mali biznis. A tom bežanju u poreske rajeve mora se stati na put.

[namenski]

Bojim se da će morati da imaju bez obzira gde su im brodovi registrovani. Kompanije su im registrovane u Grčkoj. Uostalom i oni su toga svesni.Neki porez bi morali da im uvedu, pazeći naravno da ne preteraju pa da ovi pobegnu. Mislim da bi im se u protivnom sa moralne tačke raspao plan da oporezuju bogate pojedince i mali biznis. A tom bežanju u poreske rajeve mora se stati na put.

Brodarstvo je ipak malo specificno: nema veze s temom, ali ni sa kompanijama registrovanim u Grckoj.

Uterati porez od je prakticno nemoguce, osim da se izazove bekstvo pod tudje zastave sto je veca steta od bilo kog poreza: to jos niko nije pokusao, od Amerike, preko Britanije, ostale da ne pominjem.

Nisam ekonomski strucan, ono pojedinosti i podataka s kojima baratam nemaju veze s temom, osim cinjenice da je Grcka po tonazi trgovacke mornarice jedna od svetskih velesila, ali jedno znam sigurno: niko se ne trti da brodove dovede pod svoju zastavu iz prostog razloga sto je ta grana privrede toliko podlozna fluktuacijama da joj - ukoliko je vezes sa sopstvenu privredu sve se porezima nadajuci, vise nego sigurno dobijas nuzdu i to veliku da utrcis sa enormno velikim subvencijama.

Cini mi se da se cak ni EU tu nije previse zatrcavala sa svojom regulativom.

Dalekoistocni brodari, Japan, a sad i Kina, upravo to i rade, sede na sisi drzave, razloge znaju oni, ali ih znaju i drugi, pa zato njihovi brodovi i brodari imaju masu ogranicenja glede taksi, dozvola i ostalog.

 

Uostalom Latsis i kompanija su Grckoj toliko toga duzni i bez toga.

Edited March 7, 2015 by namenski

[Prospero]

Syriza will have to 'sacrifice their own' to reform Greece

08 March 2015, 09:03 CET

— filed under: FOCUS, Germany, Greece, politics, corruption, economy

 

 

(ATHENS) - Xenia takes a deep breath and says, "other than Germany, there is only one thing keeping Greece down -- corruption, corruption and corruption." Like many of her friends, the young lecturer voted for the radical left party Syriza in January's elections because they were the only ones with "clean hands", and because they promised to sweep away Greece's rotten old political system built on favours and kickbacks. "Only a fool would try to do things straight", when dealing with Greek officialdom, she said. Xenia knows this first-hand.

She got her first university post through a friend of her father, a staunch supporter of the former socialist Pasok government. "I am not proud to admit it. I would be more ashamed if it wasn't the same for half of my colleagues who got their jobs because their families supported the other side." Greece's creditors were quick to point to its overstaffed public service, bloated with political appointees, said Theodore Pelagidis, professor of economics at the University of Piraeus.

While more than 200,000 have since lost their jobs, the new Syriza-led government of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has vowed to find the money to pay off the country's massive debt mountain by cracking down hard on fraud and tax evasion.

 

- Anti-corruption drive -

It has appointed a tough former prosecutor, Panagiotis Nikoloudis, as its anti-corruption tsar, and he told AFP in a recent interview that "if the new government has come to see me it's because it really wants to act." On Tuesday the finance ministry announced a huge new trawl through bank accounts and shareholdings looking for billions in alleged undeclared income.

But according to Pelagidis, co-author of "Understanding the Crisis in Greece", any meaningful reform of the Greek state will also have to "get rid of people who are not doing their jobs. Which could be a very big problem for Syriza because public servants are the base of their support. "Are they really going to sacrifice their own supporters?" Pelagidis has his doubts, as does Professor Michael Arghyrou of the Cardiff Business School, who said allowing power company workers a pay rise this week as the government scrabbles to meet its debts does not augur well.

Many, however, argue that cuts have gone too deep causing chronic staff shortages, with one health minister saying he needs an extra 1,700 staff.

The government would do better to hire tax inspectors, said Arghyrou, to overhaul the "dysfunctional" collection system. While much of Syriza's rhetoric has been about making the country's richest families pay their fair share -- with Nikoloudis claiming in parliament that some wealthy families "think the state exists to service their interests" -- Arghyrou believes the problem cuts right across society. "Studies have shown the massive discrepancies between what professional and self-employed people have in their bank accounts and what they declare for tax. Seven out of 10 say their earnings are below the tax threshold, which is ridiculous," he said.

But tackling tax evasion and the huge shadow economy worth 28 billion euros ($31 billion) by some estimates -- a fifth of Greece's GDP -- is also about changing mindsets, the professor said.

 

- Bribery and favours -

"You cannot change mentalities built up over 40 years in four months. And Syriza are in a desperate financial position with no time to play with," Arghyrou said. Attitudes, however, may be changing. Bribes paid in Greece dropped below the half billion euro mark last year for the first time since Transparency International started monitoring "fakelakia", the "little envelopes" of cash that have been traditionally used to oil the wheels of bureaucracy. Eleanna Ioannidou, a Green councillor in Greece's second city Thessaloniki, said that no matter how sincere Syriza's intentions to combat the culture of favours and fakelakia, rooting it out will not be easy.

"We were raised with this unhealthy relationship with politicians where we expect favours and to be looked after," she said. "Syriza is going to have this problem with the public servants. No more fakelakia or special treatment also means no more exceptions being made and that is going to make some people angry," the ecologist added.

But she also warned Europe about falling for stereotypes. "When you look at bribery, the biggest scandals in recent years in Greece have involved German companies like Siemens and arms maker KMW. Who then was corrupting who?"

 

[Luther]

Tako je to kada se taj kancer raširi kroz celo društvo i postane dominantan način ponašanja. Da se svede na neku prihvatljuvu meru potrebne su decenije. Zato recimo moralno propadanje u Srbiji devedesetih vidim kao daleko veći problem od ljudskih i materjalnih gubitaka.

[urkozamanje]

Stvarno je OT, ali zasto "evazija" pobogu?