Radoye Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, zorglub said: ... u Kanadi je dozvoljeno posedovanje poluautomatskog oružja, samo je kapacitet okvira ograničen na (čini mi se) 10 metaka. Ne svog poluautomatskog oruzja, zavisi od tipa. Recimo AR-15 (najpopularnija puska u USA) i svi derivati su zabranjeni, takodje svi derivati Kalasnjikova bez obzira sto su poluautomatski. Sa druge strane, SKS ("Papovka" JNA) je legalna. Za poluautomatske pistolje je ogranicenje 10 metaka po sarzeru, za duge cevi 5. Ima jos ogranicenja, kolika sme da bude max / min duzina cevi, tip mehanizma, modifikacije, vrsta municije, ovo-ono...
mustang Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, Radoye said: Ne svog poluautomatskog oruzja, zavisi od tipa. Recimo AR-15 (najpopularnija puska u USA) i svi derivati su zabranjeni, takodje svi derivati Kalasnjikova bez obzira sto su poluautomatski. Sa druge strane, SKS ("Papovka" JNA) je legalna. Za poluautomatske pistolje je ogranicenje 10 metaka po sarzeru, za duge cevi 5. Ima jos ogranicenja, kolika sme da bude max / min duzina cevi, tip mehanizma, modifikacije, vrsta municije, ovo-ono... za usa ovo prvi put cujem mislim sa gresis ar-15 nije zabranjen osim u nekim stejtovima kao sto je kalifornija a u nekim stejtovima je odredjen max municije po magacinu
zorglub Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Radoye said: takodje svi derivati Kalasnjikova bez obzira sto su poluautomatski. Čekaj, to onda znači da je neko pisao zakon i bukvalno naveo AR-15 i AK kao no-no, ne ulazeći opširno u vrstu pušaka kojoj pripadaju? Ovo pitam jer znam za sigurno da je češka Vz.58 surplus hit u Kanadi, a osim samog mehanizma, puška je iste veličine, kalibra, čak i izgleda kao AK. Govorim o poluautomatskoj naravno.
Radoye Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Da, specificno su nalistali odredjene tipove pusaka. Zabranjene su one bazirane na vojnom oruzju (pa listaju AK, FN-FAL itd) i one koje su originalno dizajnirane kao automatske pa konvertovane u poluautomatske (pa listaju AR-15 i jos jedno 20 derivata / klonova razlicitih proizvodjaca itd). Ne kazem da ima smisla, ali tako je. Kolega s posla mi je "entuzijasta", ima jedno 15-tak komada raznog oruzja uglavnom starijeg WW1-WW2, skuplja staru artiljerijsku municiju (deaktiviranu naravno), gas maske i ostalu vojnu opremu. Ide redovno na streljanu i puca, ne zavarava se idejama o samoodbrani ili ljudskim pravima za posed oruzja nego naprosto tretira to kao hobi. I uvek se zali kada se nesto ovako dogodi da ce "zbog budala i njegovu kolekciju da stave van zakona".
Radoye Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Datatak umesto edita: Guglam sada i citam, po novom zakonu od jula prosle godina zabranjen je i vz.58 ali je onima koji ih vec poseduju dozvoljeno da ih zadrze pod odredjenim uslovima. Zabranjena je preprodaja istih osim ako ne idu van granice.
zorglub Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Ha, vidiš, hvala. Sa jedne strane je dobro, jer stalnim apdejtom specifičnih stavki sprečavaš pojavu kreativnih rešenja poput bump-stockova, arm-braceova i sličnih andrmolja, sa druge je loše, jer se možeš probuditi u totalitarnom režimu gde je sve što poseduješ zabranjeno.
Radoye Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Jbg ne smatram da nivo moje licne slobode bitno zavisi od toga smem li ili ne smem da posedujem vojno oruzje. Sa druge strane, lovacko oruzje nikada nece biti zabranjeno u Kanadi iz vise objektivnih razloga (indijanci, divlje zivotinje u neposrednoj blizini ljudskih naselja - medvedi, pume, kojoti, vukovi i ostalo), to cak niko ni ne zagovara jer bi takva zabrana direktno ugrozila zivote mnogih ljudi. Pricalo se da bi zabranili pistolje i to ne svuda, samo u gradovima, kao da se stane na put gangovima ali razum je prevladao. Mislim, ne znam kako bi odredili gde pocinje a gde se zavrsava taj "grad" i zasto bi nekome s jedne strane ulice bilo dovoljeno da drzi pistolj u kuci a onom prekoputa ne (ako bi se strogo pratile opstinske granice) ili zasto bi u gradu od (lupam) 200001 stanovnika bilo zabranjeno a u onom od 199999 ne (ako bi isli po broju stanovnika). A opet ne mogu svuda da zabrane zbog ruralnih podrucja (isti razlozi kao i za lovacko oruzje).
zorglub Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Radoye said: Jbg ne smatram da nivo moje licne slobode bitno zavisi od toga smem li ili ne smem da posedujem vojno oruzje. Naravno, ali je jedan od uslova (oružje kao takvo, nikome normalnom ne treba PKM). Mislim da nekakva sredina ipak treba da važi, zakoni o posedovanju i nošenju u Češkoj mi se recimo sviđaju. Edited April 23, 2020 by zorglub
Radoye Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, zorglub said: Mislim da nekakva sredina ipak treba da važi... Mislim da ces naci vrlo malo ljudi koji se s ovim nece sloziti. Problem je sto danas kada se politika svela na reality show gde bukvalno sve mainstream partije prakticno zauzimaju identicne pozicije (social conservative, market liberal) jer se svi slazu da zivimo u najboljem od svih mogucih svetova i gde je Wall Street sve bogatiji a raju ko jebe. Da bi uopste postojao razlog u takvom sistemu da neko glasa za jednu partiju umesto druge obe politicke opcije (nominalno "levo" ili "desno" iako to blage veze vise nema ni sa levo ni sa desno) posto nemaju sta konkretno da ponude po cemu bi se razlikovale zauzimaju ekstremne pozicije u nekim totalno perifernim pitanjima poput ovoga, abortusa, gej brakova i slicno. Politika se danas svodi na cisto manipulisanje emocijama i dok elektorat kopa rovove ubedjen da se ponovo odlucuje o biti ili ne biti sustinski sve ostaje isto. Zato je racionalna rasprava o ovom pitanju nemoguca, jer ili treba sve zabraniti (cak i starterske pistolje sto pucaju na corke) ili treba sve dozvoliti (ukljucujuci i nuklearne balisticke projektile). Za razumnu sredinu mesta vise nema.
mustang Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) sta ce nekome balisticka raketa ili ar-15!!? pistolj/revolver okej. lovacke puske okej ako vec mora (drugi amandman da se postuje) zasto je u americi toliko mass shooting? 1. ne radi se ozbiljan background check na apliciranog 2. ne radi se psiholoski test 3. ne ogranicava se kupovina i ne prijavljuje u fbi 4. nema institucija gde bi mentalno labilni mogu da se drze pod kontrolom 5. nema kontrole posle kupovine gde je rodja, sta radi, kako drzi oruzje ... ima tu jos sitnica, mozda najbitnije i da drustvo ne radi dovoljno na tome da se prijave sumnjiva ponasanja pa makar to bilo rodjeno dete i drugi amandman kad se pisao, oruzje je bilo konzervativno Edited April 23, 2020 by mustang
Radoye Posted April 23, 2020 Posted April 23, 2020 Quote The shooter in a mass killing in Nova Scotia had a list of people he wanted to kill, according to a report in The Globe and Mail. The Globe reports that a man who lives near Gabriel Wortman's property in Portapique, N.S., said he had been told by investigators that his name was "seventh or eighth" on a list that was found by police at the shooter’s home. Portapique is where the 51-year-old denturist began his rampage Saturday night. By the time he was shot dead by police Sunday morning – 100 kilometres away in Enfield, N.S. – he had killed 22 people. The reported discovery of the hit list provides one of what have thus far been very few clues into the shooter's apparent goals and motivations. Police have said that he knew some of his victims, but not all of them. It is also believed that he was using illegally obtained weapons, as RCMP have said he did not have a valid licence to obtain or possess firearms in Canada. The investigation into the killings is expected to take months. Military personnel and equipment have been brought in to help police sort through the evidence they discover at the 16 known crime scenes. Pierre-Yves Bourduas, a former RCMP deputy commissioner, said Thursday that the existence of a hit list "makes a whole lot of sense" given the shooter seems to have planned out his rampage in detail. "The individual knew exactly where he was going, knew exactly who he was encountering," he told CTV News Channel. Prvi 911 poziv zbog pucnjeva i pozara primljen je u 22:28 u subotu uvece, Patrola je javila da su upucali ovoga u 11:26 u nedelju - 13 sati kasnije i 100 km dalje. U medjuvremenu pucao je na 16 razlicitih lokacija, zapalio nekoliko kuca, negde ne pola puta se presvukao iz policijske uniforme u opremu gradjevinca, spalio policijski auto koji je do tada vozio i presao u dzip. Kazu da je sa sobom imao arsenal oruzja, mada jos ne govore tacno kakvog i koliko.
Radoye Posted April 24, 2020 Posted April 24, 2020 Quote The RCMP have released a detailed account of how the mass shooting in rural Nova Scotia transpired last weekend that spanned six communities and left at least 22 dead during a terrifying 13-hour rampage. The alleged gunman began the deadly spree of violence when he attacked his girlfriend, Global News has learned. Gabriel Wortman, a 51-year-old denturist, later died at a gas station in Enfield, N.S., roughly 100 kilometres from where the shooting began, after exchanging gunfire with police. Nova Scotia RCMP say 22 people in six communities were killed after a 51-year-old denturist went on a 13-hour killing spree. The communities where investigations are being conducted include Portapique, Wentworth, Debert, Shubenacadie, Milford and Enfield. The investigations include at least five burned buildings. Police say the massacre started in the community of Portapique, about 40 kilometres west of Truro, on Saturday at 10:26 p.m. The RCMP confirms that victims were found on Portapique Beach Road, Orchard Beach Road and Bayview Court. The killer then travelled to the communities of Wentworth, Debert and Shubenacadie before being killed in Enfield, police confirm. The RCMP has now confirmed the killings in Wentworth occurred Sunday morning at 9:35 a.m., in Debert at 10:08 a.m., in Shubenacadie and Milford at 10:49 a.m. and in Enfield at 11:26 a.m. Police have said some of the victims were known to the shooter but some were not. The shooter was seen driving in a mock-up police cruiser and wearing an “authentic” police uniform during the rampage. The gunman was not a member of the RCMP. “This was an unprecedented event, and as soon as we learned that the suspect was possibly in a replica police cruiser and wearing what appeared to be an RCMP uniform, we immediately informed the public,” the RCMP said Tuesday. The burned-out fake police car was located at the crime scene that involved the killing of RCMP Const. Heidi Stevenson, a 23-year member of the force. The RCMP believes the murder and arson rampage was committed by one person alone. The gunman was shot dead by police on Sunday just before noon outside a gas station in Enfield. Aspects of the investigation have been turned over to Nova Scotia’s Serious Incident Response Team (SiRT), which investigates “all matters that involve death, serious injury, sexual assault and domestic violence or other matters” involving police in Nova Scotia. SiRT is investigating why two RCMP members allegedly discharged their firearms in the direction of a fire hall in Onslow being used as a place of refuge the morning of the shooting. The police watchdog is also investigating the incident at the gas station that led to the shooter’s death, The rampage in rural Nova Scotia marked the deadliest mass shooting in Canadian history.
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