Turska zasluzuje EU

[Althea]

U Francuskoj poslodavci kandidata prvo pitaju kojoj etničkoj grupi pripada. Francuz nikada i ni pod kojim uslovima neće zaposliti čoveka iz neke od svojih bivših kolonija koje su osiromašili i porobili. Škole iz predgrađa Pariza sa većinskim arapskim stanovništvom nose manje poena nego škole iz belih arondismana. Što se mene tiče, bili bi u pravu i da zapale pola Francuske, što će, insallah, jednom i učiniti. Kolonijalna prošlost mora da dođe na naplatu kad tad.

Nakon ovako neceg zaista ne znam da li sa tobom uopste ima smisla razgovarati. Nadam se da si u meri da ovo potkrepis konkretnim i cvrstim dokazima, inace cu biti primorana da sve smatram za posledicu tvoje sopstvene iskljucivosti, zaslepeljenosti i mrznje.Jasno mi je da u Francusku ni privirio nisi, jer da jesi otkrio bi, gle cuda, da su ljudi poreklom iz bivsih kolonija zaposleni manje-vise svuda, vidjas ih po privatnim preduzecima (koje poseduju ti isti ogavni Francuzi, fuj), administracijama, fakultetima, naucnim insitutima, policiji, sudstvu, medijima, itd. To, naravno, ne znaci da diskriminacije kao takve u francuskom drustvu uopste nema - btw, pokazi mi koje to pa drustvo je totalno operisano od iste, cisto informacije radi - ona postoji ali postoje i zakoni protiv iste i mere koje su preduzete i koje se i dalje preduzimaju (kao recimo - slanje anonimnih CV-a, itd).Ali ti sigurno bolje znas pa zato ocekujem i dalje da mi neoborivo dokazes kako "Francuz nikad i ni pod kojim uslovima nece zaposliti coveka iz neke od svojih bivsih kolonija". Cudo jedno samo kako su do sada onda pozaposljavali ove ostale. Mora biti da su se gadno zeznuli.Ne bi ti skodilo da malo proveris svoje izvore pre nego sto o necem doneses tako definitivan i strastven sud.A sto se tvog sasvim zluradog prizivanja tudje nesrece tice - mogu samo da skinem kapu tvom humanizmu i osecaju za pravdu, svaka cast, samo tako, way to go buddy. Edited February 10, 2008 by Althea

[Nicol]

Zaboravila si da dodaš da islam doživljava pravi BUM (pored toga što poslove koje Nijemci nikad ne bi radili rade (i) Bošnjaci, Turci..., a Slovenija i Austrija uvoze (i) bosanskih muslimana za bauštele i druge poslove) pa da dobiješ nagradu "Geert Wilders" za međureligijski dijalog. <_<

baš je nedavno jedna velika slovenska građevinska firma zaposlila na projektu veći broj radnika iz slovačke, umjesto tradicionalnog uvoza iz bosne. eksperiment nije bio uspješan, usprkos vjerskoj kompatibilnosti pa su se vratili na provjerenu suradnju. nevjerojatno, al izgleda da na zapošljavanje izvan matične zemlje utječe još štogod osim vjeroispovjesti... -_- Edited February 10, 2008 by Nicol

[ArleKino]

Jos kad bi mi objasnila sta je to islamski BUM? Mislimo li na isti nas dve?

Naravno da mislim, sestro.

[msmodesty]

U Francuskoj poslodavci kandidata prvo pitaju kojoj etničkoj grupi pripada. Francuz nikada i ni pod kojim uslovima neće zaposliti čoveka iz neke od svojih bivših kolonija koje su osiromašili i porobili. Škole iz predgrađa Pariza sa većinskim arapskim stanovništvom nose manje poena nego škole iz belih arondismana. Što se mene tiče, bili bi u pravu i da zapale pola Francuske, što će, insallah, jednom i učiniti. Kolonijalna prošlost mora da dođe na naplatu kad tad.

Rachida Dati: Ministarka Pravde

Born to a Moroccan father who worked as a bricklayer and an Algerian mother, Rachida Dati is the second child of a family of twelve, she spent her childhood in Chalon-sur-Sa?ne, Burgundy.

Ramatoulaye Yade-Zimet - State Secretary in charge of foreign affairs and human rights

Yade was born on December 13, 1976 in Dakar, Senegal. Her mother was a professor and her father, also a professor, was the personal secretary of the president L?opold S?dar Senghor. A Muslim by faith....

EDIT: Hocu reci yb'l vas generalizacija smajli cisto da se neko ne naljuti Edited February 10, 2008 by msmodesty

[msmodesty]

da ne zaboravim da odtrolujem do kraja:Fadela Amara

Fad?la Amara (Arabic: فاضلة عمارة), also known as Fatiha Amara (b. 1964) is a French feminist and Conservative politican, who began her political life as an advocate for women in the impoverished banlieues. She is the Secretary of State for Urban Policies in the government of French Prime Minister Fran?ois Fillon. She is a former president of the organisation Ni Putes Ni Soumises.

on topic, pitanje koje me muci, narocito od kada sam pocel ada citam Orhan Pamuk-a je: koliko Turska zapravo zeli da udje u EU?da li pravimo racun bez krchmara...

[Аврам Гојић]

Ovaaj...ja ne mislim da je neka velika nesreća kada nekome izgori automobil. U svakom slučaju manja je nego kada ti, na primer, vojnici osvoje zemlju, drže je pokorenu vek i po ili dva i za to vreme je izmuzu do smrti. U najmanju ruku, Francuska zaslužuje da plati danak svojoj kolonijalnoj aroganciji. Verujem da će platiti-gubitkom onoga što Francuzi ponosno zovu francuska kultura, i da će se za to pobrinuti čista demografija koja će u tu ustajalu i šovinističku državu uneti malo svežeg saharskog vazduha. Good riddance...ja ionako nemam fetiš Evrope i njene kulture.Inače, bio sam u Francuskoj. Južnoj. Video sam mnogo radnika poreklom iz severne Afrike. Čistačica, konobara, čistača ulica...Siguran sam da su njihovi poslodavci Francuzi, tako da, evo, povlačim svoj isključiv sud.

[Althea]

Nisi ti pricao o paljenju automobila nego zemlje . A za tvoju informaciju - onima kojima su izgorela kola jeste katastrofa jer je to uglavnom sloj koji s mukom zaradjuje hleb nasusni. Dalje, jesi li bio po bankama, administracijama raznim, privatnim preduzecima (gde u kancelariji sede i arapski i kosooki potomci onih iz nekadasnjih kolonija), ili nisi? Da li si uopste pogledao malo dalje od kafica i restorana?Trece, ako Francuska treba da plati za kolonijalnu aroganciju, ne treba li onda isto primeniti i za Tursku i za njenu visevekovnu ni malo lepu i slatku okupaciju (neki bi upotrebili i daleko zesce termine) drugih zemalja i naroda? Koja je trajala duze pride i zavrsila se negde malcice ranije u odnosu na ovu koju pominjes? Ili oni po prirodi stvari treba da budu postedjeni a samo drugi da plate?

Edited February 10, 2008 by Althea

[Аврам Гојић]

Turska okupacija? Retroaktivno da, u romantičarskom tumačenju termina. Oni koji malo bolje poznaju otomansku istoriju ipak će upotrebiti jedan drugi termin: život u delu velike imperije u kojoj je, putem janičarske službe, za inovernike bilo moguće vertikalno napredovanje do ranga premijera............Evo malo Al Kaidine propagande:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4399748.stm French Muslims face job discrimination Days of rioting in the bleaker suburbs of Paris have highlighted discontent among many French youths of North African origin. As part of a series on French Muslims, the BBC News website's Henri Astier looks at the issue of discrimination, a leading source of frustration in France's unemployment-riddled ghettos. Sadek recently quit his job delivering groceries near Saint-Denis, just north of Paris. He was tired of climbing stairs with heavy bags. Unemployment is high in estates which are home to many Muslims Sadek, 31, has a secondary school education and aspires to something better. But he knows his options are limited: "With a name like mine, I can't have a sales job." Telemarketing could be a possibility - his Arab roots safely hidden from view. Of course, he would have to work under an assumed name. Sadek's story sums up the job prospects of the children and grandchildren of Muslim immigrants. They may be French on paper - but they know that Ali and Rachid are much less likely to get ahead than Alain or Richard. Racial discrimination is banned in France. But a quick look at the people working in any shop or office suggests the practice is widespread. The impression is confirmed by official statistics. Unemployment among people of French origin is 9.2%. Among those of foreign origin, the figure is 14% - even after adjusting for educational qualifications. Closed doors The pressure group SOS Racisme regularly highlights cases of employers discarding applicants with foreign names. It says such discrimination is particularly rife in the retail and hospitality industries - but also for jobs involving no contact with the public. "Some companies believe that to be responsible for marketing you must have roots in mainland France over several generations to understand the French consumer attitudes," according to a recent SOS Racisme report. You feel you will never make it because you are Arab Journalist Nadir Dendoune French Muslims speak out "Doors are closed when you are an Arab," says Yazid Sabeg, a businessman and writer. For many young people, the first time they notice the closed door is when they try to go clubbing. "The first time the guy at the entrance says: 'You're not coming in', you accept it," says Nadir Dendoune, a journalist from Saint-Denis. "But after two or three times, you go home carrying a bag of hatred on your shoulders." And when you can't find a job, Mr Dendoune adds, despondency turns to paranoia. "Every rejection - even those that may not be racially motivated - undermines your self-confidence. You feel you will never make it because you are Arab." Failed approach France has countless bodies dedicated to helping immigrants - a High Council for Integration, a Directorate for Populations and Migrations, several regional commissions for the insertion of immigrants, and so on. Samia Amara questions the need to "integrate" French Muslims Despite this, France's integration policy has failed, the Court of Accounts, a government watchdog, concluded last year. The situation could lead to "serious social and racial tensions", the court warned prophetically. According to some, the concept of "integration" itself is flawed. "People always talk of the need to 'integrate' Muslims. But the youths are French. Why should they need integrating?" asks Samia Amara, 23, a youth worker near Paris. Mr Sabeg agrees that "integration" is just hot air. "What does it mean? Are some French people supposed to integrate and others to be integrated?" Some politicians argue that France should admit this failure and try something new. UNEMPLOYMENT WOES 9.2% unemployment rate for people of French origin 14% unemployment for people of foreign origin (adjusted for education) 5% overall unemployment for university graduates 26.5% unemployment for "North African" university graduates Source: Insee Manuel Valls, an MP and mayor of Evry, a town south of Paris where half the population have foreign roots, says France "cannot lecture Britain or the US" on immigration issues. His country, he points out, has no black or Arab TV presenters, and all MPs from mainland France are white. Mr Valls is a firm believer in "positive discrimination" - a very un-French concept that is beginning to gain acceptance. The broad idea is extra help based on geographical and social - but not racial - criteria. Mr Valls points to an example of such action in his own constituency. The Lycee Robert Doisneau is a secondary school surrounded by some of the country's worst housing estates, with unemployment in excess of 30%. The Lycee Robert Doisneau offers students a shot at success About 70% of pupils have foreign parents or grandparents. Despite such a challenging intake, the school offers a way out of the ghetto. "The students come here to study and to succeed," says head teacher Genevieve Piniau. She has pioneered partnerships with elite schools, whose high-fliers groom local pupils to develop their aspirations. The school also takes part in a scheme run by Paris' Political Sciences Institute, providing special access for students from deprived areas. The result is 89% success in school leaving exams - well above the national average - and a record of success at university level for former students. Distant dream Of course, youths from poor suburbs need more than an education - they need jobs. Efforts are being made to encourage employers to take them on. Unlike the failed legislative approach, the emphasis is now on voluntary pledges by employers. Mr Sabeg is among the sponsors of a new "diversity charter" encouraging companies to "reflect the diversity of French society" by hiring qualified non-whites. It remains to be seen how this will be implemented. Mr Sabeg is looking across the Channel for inspiration, noting that the head of Vodafone, one of Europe's largest companies, is an Indian, Arun Sarin. "When this happens here, we will know France has changed," he says. Meanwhile in Saint-Denis, Sadek would settle for a temp job at the post office - but that remains a distant dream.

Edited February 10, 2008 by vasudeva418

[Аврам Гојић]

Neverovatno, evo i Yale i International Herald Tribune podlegli islamofašističkoj propagandi:http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=10072

[Althea]

Wow, stvarno si car relativizacije, I'm impressed. Evo, moram javno da ti odam priznanje. Vidim ja da Alef-ov duh zivi u ovim forumskim vodama i kad ga nema, samo u drugom obliku, yin i yang varijanta.Steta samo jer sam se ponadala kakvoj ozbiljnoj diskusiji, ali dobro, kapiram da to u ovim uslovima uopste nije moguce.Ajd' pa uzdravlje Vasudevo.Edit : napisano pre nego sto se Vasudevin edit pojavio na mom ekranu kao reakcija na prvi deo u vezi turske okupacije.Edit 2: pogledati prethodne postove.

Edited February 10, 2008 by Althea

[Indy]

Turska okupacija? Retroaktivno da, u romantičarskom tumačenju termina. Oni koji malo bolje poznaju otomansku istoriju ipak će upotrebiti jedan drugi termin: život u delu velike imperije u kojoj je, putem janičarske službe, za inovernike bilo moguće vertikalno napredovanje do ranga premijera.

Sucim ces izici pred pretke, vasudevo? Mene bi bilo sramota od mojih predaka ajduka da tako govorim.BTW. Da li je Srbija ikad dobila kompenzacije za torturu koju je pretrpela pod Turcima? Za sve one janicare i danak u krvi, npr? Kolce i secu knjazova da ne pominjem. Ne pitam ovo bez veze. Silni Aboridzini ovde prave karijeru od svoje ojadjenosti torturom od strane okupatora Engleza (koja se hronoloski prilicno poklapa sa kasnijom fazom turske okupacije Srbije). Sta smo mi gori od njih? Hocu odmah neku bolju cetvrt Istambula na ime odstete zbog patnje koje su moji preci pretrpeli.

[Аврам Гојић]

Janičari? Misliš na elitni vojnički red čiji su pripadnici uzdizani do najviših položaja u Carstvu?Nije istorija - Đura Jakšić, "i ovaj kamen zemlje Srbije..." Althea, probaj da se oslobodiš refleksa nacionalnog sentimenta 19. veka i da samo pogledaš .činjenice. To što je ustrojstvo otomanskog društva bilo bitno drugačije od evropskog feudalnog sistema ne čini ga gorim.

[Lancia]

Turska okupacija? Retroaktivno da, u romantičarskom tumačenju termina. Oni koji malo bolje poznaju otomansku istoriju ipak će upotrebiti jedan drugi termin: život u delu velike imperije u kojoj je, putem janičarske službe, za inovernike bilo moguće vertikalno napredovanje do ranga premijera.

Jesi carica, svaka ti cast pa ovako mozes i ti da napredujes i to horizontalno do prve haremske dame nekog istanbulskog age.

[Аврам Гојић]

Ne mogu da budem carica nikako jer sam muško, Vasudeva je indijsko muško ime Na stranu ova mala rodna zabuna, ako te nešto zanima o janičarima kuckaj malo po guglu, ne dajem privatne časove istorije islamskog sveta. Ratnici-robovi su širom islamskog sveta imali izuzetan značaj...u Turskoj su bili faktor koji je vekovima kontrolisao odluke sultana, dok su u Egiptu otišli dalje i vršili direktnu upravnu vlast (mameluci). Ako ne znaš koji su bili najviši dometi janičara, predlažem posetu velikoj džamiji Mehmet - paše Sokolovića u Istanbulu. Lako je naći je, samo me pitaj.

[Lancia]

pa jeste, i Nedicevci su bili neka vlast.