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Svet posle Korone - društvo i vrednosti


Redoran

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Temu o ekonomskom raspadu već imamo. Na ovoj pričamo o društvenim promenama koje će Covid-19 doneti, to jest, da li će svet posle ove pandemije imati više lekara a manje influensera, ili čovečanstvo nastavlja jako i sve dok majka priroda najzad izgubi strpljenje.

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E to mi je palo na pamet pre neki dan, kamo sreće da shvatimo da je bolje za čovečanstvo da umre selebriti pa makar i sportista nego pošten doktor. o platama da ne pričamo, tj. baš zbog plata treba da je tako... umesto da se ulaže u razvoj nauke i medicine (npr. Sars) ode svet mic po mic u PM.
Ali troll, pardon...

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk

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6 minutes ago, mlatko said:

E to mi je palo na pamet pre neki dan, kamo sreće da shvatimo da je bolje za čovečanstvo da umre selebriti pa makar i sportista nego pošten doktor. o platama da ne pričamo, tj. baš zbog plata treba da je tako... umesto da se ulaže u razvoj nauke i medicine (npr. Sars) ode svet mic po mic u PM.
Ali troll, pardon...

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk
 

Jaka stvar sta cemo mi da shvatimo, svet je odavno skrenuo negde kod Albukerkija, klinci mastaju da budu influenseri, kakvi crni posteni doktori, naucnici...

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Totalni troll: mislim da će se svet prilično promeniti kad ova zaraza bude konačno nestala. Na koji način videćemo.
Neće se promeniti ni za nokat :) Za koju godinu sve će da se zaboravi, Kinezi će nastaviti da žderu slepe miševe do sledeće pandemije koja će biti pitaj boga kakvo mutirano zlo. Vidimo kako je Sars 2003. krenuo, ljudi se malo uplašili ali brzo rešeno jer su ga prenosili samo oni sa očiglednim simptomima. Sad je ovaj Sars2 10 puta zajebaniji...

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12 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

Totalni troll: mislim da će se svet prilično promeniti kad ova zaraza bude konačno nestala. Na koji način videćemo.

Ja se isto nadam, tesko da moze gore no poslednjih 10 i kusur godina.

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@arheolog1981

 

Ovo je prvi put za mog života da znam da su lojalni građani bogatih zemalja širom sveta oplevili samiške samo tako. Da mi je neko rekao pre par godina da postoji mogućnost da švajcarski zdravstveni sistem pukne bih tog nazvao ozbiljnim idiotom.

 

edit: izvinjavam se moderaciji.

Edited by Anonymous
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1 hour ago, Anonymous said:

Totalni troll: mislim da će se svet prilično promeniti kad ova zaraza bude konačno nestala. Na koji način videćemo.

 

+1 

 

Slažem se. 

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1 hour ago, arheolog1981 said:

Neće se promeniti ni za nokat :) Za koju godinu sve će da se zaboravi, Kinezi će nastaviti da žderu slepe miševe do sledeće pandemije koja će biti pitaj boga kakvo mutirano zlo. Vidimo kako je Sars 2003. krenuo, ljudi se malo uplašili ali brzo rešeno jer su ga prenosili samo oni sa očiglednim simptomima. Sad je ovaj Sars2 10 puta zajebaniji...

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk
 

 

+1

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Jaka stvar sta cemo mi da shvatimo, svet je odavno skrenuo negde kod Albukerkija, klinci mastaju da budu influenseri, kakvi crni posteni doktori, naucnici...
pane mi, je bo teja... valjda neki novi klinci što ne gledaju influens(i)ranje. al opet kako smo zasrali mi posle 68' dobro smo i prošli. treba nam nova da izguramo novu generaciju. samo da nekom ne ispadne zvečka jer se i mečka ponekad tako pre(f)igra da majmun uđe u tenk.

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk

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Ne znam dal ovde ili na opštu temu.
 


 Where did coronavirus come from, and where will it take us?
In 2013, Rob Wallace, a professional epidemiologist and expert on big agriculture wrote, with some defeatism, “I expect it will be a long time before I address an outbreak of human influenza again other than in passing.” It wasn’t that he didn’t think it was serious, or that he thought nothing bad would happen soon. On the contrary, he was just exhausted by the certainty that something obviously would happen. He continued, “While an understandable visceral reaction, getting worried at this point in the process is a bit ass-backwards. The bug, whatever its point of origin, has long left the barn, quite literally.”

Quote

 

 

 

...
 

You have been researching epidemics and their causes for several years. In your book Big Farms Make Big Flu you attempt to draw these connections between industrial farming practices, organic farming and viral epidemiology. What are your insights?
 

The real danger of each new outbreak is the failure or—better put—the expedient refusal to grasp that each new Covid-19 is no isolated incident. The increased occurrence of viruses is closely linked to food production and the profitability of multinational corporations. Anyone who aims to understand why viruses are becoming more dangerous must investigate the industrial model of agriculture and, more specifically, livestock production. At present, few governments, and few scientists, are prepared to do so. Quite the contrary.
 

When the new outbreaks spring up, governments, the media, and even most of the medical establishment are so focused on each separate emergency that they dismiss the structural causes that are driving multiple marginalized pathogens into sudden global celebrity, one after the other.

 

Who is to blame?

I said industrial agriculture, but there’s a larger scope to it. Capital is spearheading land grabs into the last of primary forest and smallholder-held farmland worldwide. These investments drive the deforestation and development leading to disease emergence. The functional diversity and complexity these huge tracts of land represent are being streamlined in such a way that previously boxed-in pathogens are spilling over into local livestock and human communities. In short, capital centers, places such as London, New York, and Hong Kong, should be considered our primary disease hotspots.

 

For which diseases is this the case?

There are no capital-free pathogens at this point. Even the most remote are affected, if distally. Ebola, Zika, the coronaviruses, yellow fever again, a variety of avian influenzas, and African swine fever in hog are among the many pathogens making their way out of the most remote hinterlands into peri-urban loops, regional capitals, and ultimately onto the global travel network. From fruit bats in the Congo to killing Miami sunbathers in a few weeks‘ time.

 

What is the role of multinational companies in this process?

Planet Earth is largely Planet Farm at this point, in both biomass and land used. Agribusiness is aiming to corner the food market. The near-entirety of the neoliberal project is organized around supporting efforts by companies based in the more advanced industrialised countries to steal the land and resources of weaker countries. As a result, many of those new pathogens previously held in check by long-evolved forest ecologies are being sprung free, threatening the whole world.

 

What effects do the production methods of agribusinesses have on this?

The capital-led agriculture that replaces more natural ecologies offers the exact means by which pathogens can evolve the most virulent and infectious phenotypes. You couldn’t design a better system to breed deadly diseases.

 

How so?

Growing genetic monocultures of domestic animals removes whatever immune firebreaks may be available to slow down transmission. Larger population sizes and densities facilitate greater rates of transmission. Such crowded conditions depress immune response. High throughput, a part of any industrial production, provides a continually renewed supply of susceptibles, the fuel for the evolution of virulence. In other words, agribusiness is so focused on profits that selecting for a virus that might kill a billion people is treated as a worthy risk.

 

What!?

These companies can just externalize the costs of their epidemiologically dangerous operations on everyone else. From the animals themselves to consumers, farmworkers, local environments, and governments across jurisdictions. The damages are so extensive that if we were to return those costs onto company balance sheets, agribusiness as we know it would be ended forever. No company could support the costs of the damage it imposes.

 

In many media it is claimed that the starting point of the coronavirus was an “exotic food market”« in Wuhan. Is this description true?

Yes and no. There are spatial clues in favor of the notion. Contact tracing linked infections back to the Hunan Wholesale Sea Food Market in Wuhan, where wild animals were sold. Environmental sampling does appear to pinpoint the west end of the market where wild animals were held.

 

But how far back and how widely should we investigate? When exactly did the emergency really begin? The focus on the market misses the origins of wild agriculture out in the hinterlands and its increasing capitalization. Globally, and in China, wild food is becoming more formalized as an economic sector. But its relationship with industrial agriculture extends beyond merely sharing the same moneybags. As industrial production–hog, poultry, and the like–expand into primary forest, it places pressure on wild food operators to dredge further into the forest for source populations, increasing the interface with, and spillover of, new pathogens, including Covid-19.

 

Covid-19 is not the first virus to develop in China that the government tried to cover it up.

Yes, but this is no Chinese exceptionalism, however. The U.S. and Europe have served as ground zeros for new influenzas as well, recently H5N2 and H5Nx, and their multinationals and neocolonial proxies drove the emergence of Ebola in West Africa and Zika in Brazil. U.S. public health officials covered for agribusiness during the H1N1 (2009) and H5N2 outbreaks.

 

The World Health Organization (WHO) has now declared a pandemic. Is this step correct?

Yes. The danger of such a pathogen is that health authorities do not have a handle on the statistical risk distribution. We have no idea how the pathogen may respond. We went from an outbreak in a market to infections splattered across the world in a matter of weeks. The pathogen could just burn out. That would be great. But we don’t know. Better preparation would better the odds of undercutting the pathogen’s escape velocity.

The WHO’s declaration is also part of what I call pandemic theater. International organizations have died in the face of inaction. The League of Nations comes to mind. The UN group of organizations is always worried about its relevance, power, and funding. But such actionism can also converge on the actual preparation and prevention the world needs to disrupt Covid-19’s chains of transmission.

 

The neoliberal restructuring of the health care system has worsened both the research and the general care of patients, for example in hospitals. What difference could a better funded healthcare system make to fight the virus?

There’s the terrible but telling story of the Miami medical device company employee who upon returning from China with flu-like symptoms did the righteous thing by his family and community and demanded a local hospital test him for Covid-19. He worried that his minimal Obamacare option wouldn’t cover the tests. He was right. He was suddenly on the hook for US$3270.

 

An American demand might be an emergency order be passed that stipulates that during a pandemic outbreak, all outstanding medical bills related to testing for infection and for treatment following a positive test would be paid for by the federal government. We want to encourage people to seek help, after all, rather than hide away—and infect others—because they can’t afford treatment. The obvious solution is a national health service—fully staffed and equipped to handle such community-wide emergencies—so that such a ridiculous problem as discouraging community cooperation would never arise.

 

As soon as the virus is discovered in one country, governments everywhere react with authoritarian and punitive measures, such as a compulsory quarantine of entire areas of land and cities. Are such drastic measures justified?

Using an outbreak to beta-test the latest in autocratic control post-outbreak is disaster capitalism gone off the rails. In terms of public health, I would err on the side of trust and compassion, which are important epidemiological variables. Without either, jurisdictions lose their populations‘ support.

A sense of solidarity and common respect is a critical part of eliciting the cooperation we need to survive such threats together. Self-quarantines with the proper support–check-ins by trained neighborhood brigades, food supply trucks going door-to-door, work release and unemployment insurance–can elicit that kind of cooperation, that we are all in this together.

 

Conservatives and neo-Nazis like the AfD in Germany have been spreading (false) reports about the virus and demand more authoritarian measures from the government: Restrict flights and entry stops for migrants, border closures and forced quarantine…

Travel bans and border closures are demands with which the radical right wants to racialize what are now global diseases. This is, of course, nonsense. At this point, given the virus is already on its way to spreading everywhere, the sensible thing to do is to work on developing the kind of public health resilience in which it doesn’t matter who shows up with an infection, we have the means to treat and cure them. Of course, stop stealing people’s land abroad and driving the exoduses in the first place, and we can keep the pathogens from emerging in the first place.

 

What would be sustainable changes?

In order to reduce the emergence of new virus outbreaks, food production has to change radically. Farmer autonomy and a strong public sector can curb environmental ratchets and runaway infections. Introduce varieties of stock and crops—and strategic rewilding—at both the farm and regional levels. Permit food animals to reproduce on-site to pass on tested immunities. Connect just production with just circulation. Subsidize price supports and consumer purchasing programs supporting agroecological production. Defend these experiments from both the compulsions that neoliberal economics impose upon individuals and communities alike and the threat of capital-led State repression.

 

What should socialists call for in the face of the increasing dynamics of disease outbreaks?

Agribusiness as a mode of social reproduction must be ended for good if only as a matter of public health. Highly capitalized production of food depends on practices that endanger the entirety of humanity, in this case helping unleash a new deadly pandemic.

 

We should demand food systems be socialized in such a way that pathogens this dangerous are kept from emerging in the first place. That will require reintegrating food production into the needs of rural communities first. That will require agroecological practices that protect the environment and farmers as they grow our food. Big picture, we must heal the metabolic rifts separating our ecologies from our economies. In short, we have a planet to win.

 

 

See a follow-up to this interview here

.
Rob Wallace is an evolutionary biologist and public health phylogeographer. He is author of Big Farms Make Big Flu: Dispatches on Infectious Disease, Agribusiness, and the Nature of Science and, most recently, co-author of Clear-Cutting Disease Control: Capital-Led Deforestation, Public Health Austerity, and Vector-Borne Infection

 

 

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11 hours ago, Anonymous said:

Totalni troll: mislim da će se svet prilično promeniti kad ova zaraza bude konačno nestala. Na koji način videćemo.

 

EDIT. Videće oni koji preteknu...

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Totalni troll: mislim da će se svet prilično promeniti kad ova zaraza bude konačno nestala. Na koji način videćemo.


U svim projekcijama kreće se od hepienda.

A šta ako ne nestane? Mislim, u prenosnom smislu: da postoji stalna opasnost nekakve zaraze. Što jeste realan scenario.

Ako svet krene u karantin na svake dve godine u proseku?

Mi ovakvo globalno čudo nismo nikada videli, a matori smo; da li ekonomije mogu izdržati još jednu ili dve ovakve zaraze?

Kako sada u sve ulazne faktore ubaciti rizik epidemije i kako ga umanjiti maksimalno? To će tačno biti mera promene društva koja nas očekuje.

Sent from fav toy

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ono što je sigurno da ćemo videti znatno striktnije procedure po bolnicama ubuduće

i da će svet izvršiti pritisak na proklete kineze da izmene svoje zakone o jedenju divlji životinja i konačno ukinu wet markets

 

osim toga ne očekujem značajnije promene. sve ostalo će biti short/mid-term

Edited by Ravanelli
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