Coronavirus Covid-19 - opšta tema

[Budja]

Mi nismo stigli do starackih domova.

 

Umiru mladji penzioneri (60-70) po kucama, narocito u obalnom delu Ekvadora.

 

Ministarka unutrasnjih poslova je pocela da prica o zaravnanju krive, u trenutku kada od 26000 ukupno testova, njih 10479 ceka na odradu, kada je dnevno obradjeno u poslednjih pet ana izmedju 242 i 544 testa, i kada je broj pozitivnih testova u odnosu na ukupno obradjene 505, i kada se od tih obradjenih testova 2.7% odnosi na testove uradjene u poslednjih 10 dana, i kada broj mrtvih, narocito van bolnica, krece da skace. Jednom recju potpuni raspad ekvadorske drzave.

 

Plate drzavnim sluzbenicima za mart nisu isplacene, a kada ce, ne zna se, jer je kasa presusila: nema priliva od PDV-a, nema priliva on naftne rente...

 

A ministar finansija porucuje da je "realnost prevazisla legalizam", tj. jebes radno pravo neka svaki poslodavac radi sta mu se cefne.

[mraki]

Užas jebote, tamo je baš teški raspad 

 

Danas skoro 8k mrtvih širom sveta, što je najveća brojka do sada.

Verovatno je deo toga neki zaostatak samo danas pripisan, ali svejedno...

Edited April 16, 2020 by mraki

[Gojko & Stojko]

 

Tekst od 14. aprila. Kako kaže Tegnel, splet nesrećnih okolnosti.

Swedish Virus Deaths Top 1,000, Fueling Criticism Over Strategy

Sweden just passed a grim milestone, as Scandinavia’s biggest economy reported more than 1,000 deaths from Covid-19.

 

The development adds to controversy surrounding Sweden’s decision to ignore the lockdowns being imposed elsewhere, and instead leave schools, bars, cafes and restaurants open to the public. Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has said that stricter measures may be needed going forward.

 

In all, 1,033 Swedes have died from Covid-19, official figures showed on Tuesday. Though still well below fatality rates in Italy and the U.K., it’s far worse than in any of the Nordic countries with which Sweden usually compares itself. The Swedish mortality rate is almost 10 times higher than in Finland, more than four times higher than in Norway, and twice Denmark’s.

 

The latest development has prompted 22 academics to entreat the government to alter its course. “The approach must be changed radically and swiftly,” they wrote in an opinion piece published in the Dagens Nyheter newspaper.

 

Lofven’s hands-off model has drawn criticism from across the globe, including from U.S. President Donald Trump. But in Sweden, government agencies and policy makers say their approach is built on the idea that voluntary social distancing measures are most effective, rather than a total lockdown. They argue the Swedish model is more sustainable when it comes to fighting a lasting pandemic.

 

Like elsewhere, most of Sweden’s Covid-19 deaths have hit the elderly--a demographic Lofven has admitted they should have done more to protect.

 

“We have had an unfortunate development, especially compared to our neighboring countries, with an introduction of the virus at many elderly care homes,” Sweden’s top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell said at a press conference on Tuesday. “We have started working hard on this, in coordination with other government agencies.”

 

The academics writing in Dagens Nyheter urged the government to adopt a number of specific measures to save lives.

 

“Close schools and restaurants in the same way that Finland has. All people working with elderly must wear adequate protective equipment. Start mass testing of all personnel that treat patients and test for antibodies so that those who have immunity can go back to work.”

 

SaE

[mustang]

to late

Edited April 16, 2020 by mustang

[freakns]

7 hours ago, Budja said:

Mi nismo stigli do starackih domova.

 

Umiru mladji penzioneri (60-70) po kucama, narocito u obalnom delu Ekvadora.

 

Ministarka unutrasnjih poslova je pocela da prica o zaravnanju krive, u trenutku kada od 26000 ukupno testova, njih 10479 ceka na odradu, kada je dnevno obradjeno u poslednjih pet ana izmedju 242 i 544 testa, i kada je broj pozitivnih testova u odnosu na ukupno obradjene 505, i kada se od tih obradjenih testova 2.7% odnosi na testove uradjene u poslednjih 10 dana, i kada broj mrtvih, narocito van bolnica, krece da skace. Jednom recju potpuni raspad ekvadorske drzave.

 

Plate drzavnim sluzbenicima za mart nisu isplacene, a kada ce, ne zna se, jer je kasa presusila: nema priliva od PDV-a, nema priliva on naftne rente...

 

A ministar finansija porucuje da je "realnost prevazisla legalizam", tj. jebes radno pravo neka svaki poslodavac radi sta mu se cefne.

ono kad shvatis da je Srbija ipak deo neke Evrope... ja se nadam da ce se stvari tamo smiriti nekako same od sebe, ocigledno je da nema ni kapaciteta ni znanja ni zelje da se ovo spreci.

a to sto je ministar finansija porucio je nesto sto ocekuje ceo svet kao posledicu. samo sto ce to u Evropi i SAD da se progura legalisticki, jerbo, demokratija, jeli.

[Gojko & Stojko]

 

Iskustvo tridesetčetvorogodišnjeg Heraldovog evropskog dopisnika iz Londona

After 10 days of hell, take it from me: you don't want to catch this virus

SaE

[TdEII]

8 hours ago, Gojko & Stojko said:

Smrtnost od preko 10% u odnosu na broj zaraženih (pre nekoliko dana je bila na 8%) uz pogled na brojeve u ostalim skandinavskim zemljama, plus apel za preispitivanje strategije potpisan od 2300 lekara, profesora i akademika vrlo jasno govore da tu nešto nije u redu.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

As of 15 April 2020, 63 people linked to COVID-19 have died in Australia. As at 14 April, at least 21 deaths across the country had been passengers on cruise ships.^[212]

• 1 March: the first death from COVID-19 was a 78-year-old Perth man, one of the passengers from Diamond Princess who was being treated in Western Australia.^[33]
• 4 March: the second death was a 95-year-old woman who died at the Dorothy Henderson Lodge aged-care facility in Sydney.^[37]
• 8 March: the third death was an 82-year-old man, the second death at Dorothy Henderson Lodge in Sydney.^[42]
• 13 March: the fourth death was a 77-year-old Brisbane woman who developed symptoms on a flight to Sydney and died the same day.^[56]
• 15 March: the fifth death was a 90-year-old woman, the third death at Dorothy Henderson Lodge in Sydney.^[57]
• 18 March: the sixth death was an 86-year-old man being treated in a Sydney hospital.^[213]
• 20 March: the seventh death was an 81-year-old woman who had close contact with another confirmed case of COVID-19 at Ryde Hospital, Sydney.^[214]
• 24 March: the eighth death was a 77-year-old woman from the cruise ship Ruby Princess, which had docked in Sydney on 19 March.^[215]
• 25 March: the ninth death was a 68-year-old man from Toowoomba, Queensland, with a serious underlying medical condition, who had been infected on the cruise ship Voyager of the Seas.^[216]
• 26 March: four deaths were reported: three men in their 70s with pre-existing medical conditions died in Victoria.^[217] A Perth man in his 70s who was a passenger on the cruise ship Celebrity Solstice died in Western Australia.^[218]
• 28 March: a 91-year-old New South Wales woman became the fourteenth death, and the fourth from the Dorothy Henderson Lodge aged-care facility.^[219]
• 29 March: two deaths were reported, one a 75-year-old woman from Queensland who travelled on Ruby Princess,^[220] and the other a man in his 80s from Victoria.^[221]
• 30 March: two deaths were reported, both women in their 80s linked to Ruby Princess, one from Tasmania and one in the ACT, bringing the national total to 18.^[222]
• 31 March: the 19th death was a man in his 80s also linked to Ruby Princess who died in Tasmania.^[223]
• 1 April: the 20th death was a 95-year-old woman who died at the Dorothy Henderson Lodge in Sydney,^[224] and the 21st was a 67-year-old woman in Orange, in the central west of New South Wales. This was the first New South Wales death outside of metropolitan Sydney and another that had been a passenger on the cruise ship Ruby Princess.^[225][226]
• 2 April: two people died in Victoria, one was a woman in her 70s^[227] and another was a woman in her 60s.^[228] A third death was a 85-year-old man in Queensland who had been a passenger on the Ruby Princess.^[229]
• 3 April: four people died: one was a man in his 80s in Victoria,^[230] the second was a woman in her 70s in Albury, New South Wales,^[231] the third was a 75-year-old man in Wollongong who had been a passenger on Ovation of the Seas^[232] and the fourth was a man aged in his 60s in Western Australia, a European passenger from the cruise ship Artania.^[233]
• 4 April: two people died, a woman in her 70s in Victoria^[234] and a man in his 80s in the ACT.^[235]
• 5 April: six men died in New South Wales (aged 91, 86, 85, 80, 76, and 61), three of whom had been passengers on the Ruby Princess,^[236][237]and one man in Queensland (aged 78) who had also been a passenger on the Ruby Princess.^[238]
• 6 April: There were two deaths in Victoria, a man in his 50s and a woman in her 80s,^[239] a man in his 80s died in WA who was a passenger on the Ruby Princess^[240] and a 90-year-old man died at the Dorothy Henderson Lodge in Sydney, the sixth resident of the facility to die.^[237]
• 7 April: There were seven deaths, including the first to occur in South Australia, a 75-year-old man,^[241] two in WA, a man and a woman in their 70s,^[242]a Tasmanian man in his 80s who was a passenger on the Ruby Princess,^[243] a man in his 90s and a woman in her 80s in New South Wales^[244] and a woman in her 80s died in Victoria.^[245]
• 8 April: There were two deaths, one in Victoria, a woman in her 80s,^[246] and 62-year-old SA woman who was a passenger on the Ruby Princess.^[247]
• 9 April: There was one death in SA, a 76-year-old man.^[248]
• 10 April: There were three deaths, one in Victoria, a man in his 80s,^[199] one in New South Wales, a 69-year-old man,^[249]and a man in his 70s in Tasmania.^[205]
• 11 April: There were two deaths. One was a man in Victoria in his 80s, and a 91-year-old woman in New South Wales.^[250]
• 12 April: There were three deaths. One died in SA, a 74-year-old man who had been a passenger on the Ruby Princess, a second in New South Wales, and a third a woman in her 70s in Tasmania.
• 13 April: There were two deaths. A 74-year-old woman and a 79-year-old man who were both passengers on the Ruby Princess both died in New South Wales.
• 14 April: There was one death, a 91-year-old woman in Tasmania.^[251]
• 15 April: There was one death, a woman from the ACT in her 60s who was a passenger on the Ruby Princess.^[252]

 

 

Nije. Smrtnost težih slučajeva - ono što se do skora isključivo brojalo, je 8-10%. Za sad. Da li teži slučajevi čine manje od 10% ili čak 60% bolesnih, na putu smo da vidimo.

 

Oko pisma br. 2, ne znam za tebe, ali mene ne uplaši kad čujem epidemiolog, virusolog, infektolog i  sl. i napisano obično pročitam sa pažnjom, da vidim šta tačno piše. Čista radoznalost, da nisu možda mediji preneli u celosti ovo pismo? ili je uredništvo uradilo malu redakciju teksta, pa izbacilo početni paragraf koji sadrži lične uvrede kojih se ni nakupci na pijaci ne bi postideli, plus, meni krajnje nesimpatičan pokušaj zasenjivanja prostote? Hajde na stranu stil, ovo je još jedno provaljivanja otključanih vrata - već su počela masovnija testiranja (trebalo je napraviti  svoje testove i testirati kupljene testove, koje je prvo trebalo kupiti, jel te), i prvi su na redu zaposleni u medicini.

 

Od potpisnika otvorenih pisama, pogotovu tako važnih na pijedestalu, se dalo očekivati da znaju Ustav države, da znaju nadležnosti svih institucija u zemlji, da su svesni kakvu su zemlju napravili (počelo je još onomad davno od vlade našeg poznanika Karla Bilta) i da su to radili svojevoljno. Ali, avaj… Da znaju čega nema i zašto nema, da znaju šta tačno može i treba da radi, npr. Zavod za javno zdravlje, šta vlada, a šta je u nadležnosti provincija i opština. Evo, jedan primer: zdravstvo, i samim tim i obezbeđivanje potrebne zaštitne opreme je u domenu provincija. Isto tako i briga o starima.  I kad se iznese informacija da je, recimo, u Štokholmu polovina smrtnih slučajeva poreklom iz domova, a u npr. Geteborgu i Malmeu (drugi, odn. treći po veličini grad u zemlji, respektivno) isti udeo čini jednocifreni procenat, meni taj podatak više govori o lokalnim vlastima, nego o validnosti opšte strategije.

 

But, whatever. 

 

[vememah]

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest

[Lancia]

Vise niko ne zna koliki je broj preminulih u Spaniji. Do sada se racunao samo broj preminulih u bolnicama, sad i u starackim domovima, u sopstvenim domovima. Madrid dodaje preko 4.000, Katalunja 3.300...   

[Tolaa]

Upravo to su rekli na konferenciji za štampu prekjuče u Švedskoj: ovde su uračunati svi smrtni slučajevi, dok su se u većini drugih zemalja od početka izveštavali samo umrli u bolnicama, pa se tek sad u nekim zemljama krenulo sa ubacivanjem ostalih, i da je i to jedan od razloga što švedski brojevi izgledaju neproporcionalno veliki. 

[levi]

opet Belgija razbija

 

po umrlima per capita su drugi na svetu, iza Španije

 

u stvari sad su prvi

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by levi

[paculla]

1 hour ago, Tolaa said:

Upravo to su rekli na konferenciji za štampu prekjuče u Švedskoj: ovde su uračunati svi smrtni slučajevi, dok su se u većini drugih zemalja od početka izveštavali samo umrli u bolnicama, pa se tek sad u nekim zemljama krenulo sa ubacivanjem ostalih, i da je i to jedan od razloga što švedski brojevi izgledaju neproporcionalno veliki. 

 

od tri vrste umrlih (1. pozitivni umrli u bolnici, 2. pozitivni umrli van bolnice, 3. nikad testirani umrli van bolnice) vecina zemalja je izvestavala mrtve iz prve i druge kategorije. da bi se ukljucili treci slucajevi, prvo treba da ih bude dosta, pa da se utvrdi krijerijum po kojem se broje slucajevi koji nisu nikad i nece nikad biti testirani, pa da se revidiraju svi slucajevi i izbroje. zato to kasni. zvucim kao papagaj ali to nije nikakvo merilo organizovanosti zdravstvenog sistema nego izbor procedure. sve zemlje ce morati u nekom trenutku da pregledaju svoje umrle netestirane. to ce biti jedan neprijatan statisticki eksperiment. ako uzmemo najgori period i uporedimo ga sa istim periodom prethodnih godina (kao sto je gradonacelnik jednog mesta u severnoj italiji uradio i objavio u repulici) videcemo mnogo veci broj mrtvih. ako razvucemo na duzi period, izgledace bolje. ljudi kazu da bi ti ljudi umrli svakako ali to je jako surovo jer nije isto umreti okruzen porodicom i sam na ventilatoru okruzen ljudima u skafanderima. bolnice imaju znacajno manji broj 'normalnih' srcanih i mozdanih udara (urgentni kardiovasularni slucajevi su pali 50%) sto je delimicno posledica toga sto ljudi sede po kucama ali je je mnogo vise posledica toga sto ljudi nece da idu u bolnicu. neki od tih ljudi ce umreti kod kuce, ne od covida ali od posledica ovog stanja.

 

ne znam za svedsku, ali ne verujem da izvestavaju umrle a netestirane. to ne moze svakodnevno da se broji. italija je agresivnije testirala domove, njujork je isto testirao domove ali nedovoljno i zato su morali da naprave korekciju za netestirane. masacusets agresivno testira domove i trenutuno je na 48% od svih mrtvih u domovima, njujork je bio na 25% pre korekcije a sad je na 50%. svedska ima malo testiranja na milion stanovnika, ali ima ok odnos zarazenih i testiranih i znacajno veci broj mrtvih, ali to ne mora da ima nikakve veze sa brojanjem nego sa puno drugih faktora. ono sto vidimo na nekim mestima je povecan broj mrtvih kasnije sto je rezultat agresivnije terapije koja nije davala rezultate ali je odgala smrt. na primer, na pocetku su u mnogim bolnicama stavljali pacijanate na vestacku cirkulaciju i sad su potpuno prestali jer su videli da nije efektivno a dosta je rizicnije za medicinsko osoblje nego druge terapije. praksa sa intubacijama se isto menja jer puno intubiranih pacijenata umre a intubacije su rizicne za doktore. u svedskoj su mozda ljudi umrli brze jer imaju drugacije protokole ali ne znaci gore (nekad je i bolje jer su neke stvari mucenje). ovo sam pricala i za holandiju ranije. drugacije metode lecenja... 

 

zelimo prosto objasnjenje ali ce se ove stvari proucavati godinama... i ne moze da se sve vidi iz tabela i procenata...  

[duda]

alkohol ne štiti  

[borris_]

Francuska je objavila cstatistike umrlih zadnje tri godine.

 

Prva slika : Broj umrlih od pocetka godine sve do 3/04. Podatci jos nisu skroz tacni, fali Regija Marseille-a.

 

 

Druga slika : smrtnost po regijama

 

 

 

 

[borris_]

Ila i drugih slike ali ne mogu vise da ih kacim. Ima clanak u Le Monde-u

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/04/10/coronavirus-la-surmortalite-en-france-par-age-sexe-et-departement_6036275_4355770.html

 

Informacije su dostupne ovdje 

 

https://www.insee.fr/fr/information/4470857