Coronavirus Covid-19 - opšta tema

[Lo Zingaro]

3 minutes ago, Bogotac said:

A banke,jel Spanci zatvaraju?

U Italiji nisu zatvorili banke i poste.

[Gricko]

Kako je moguće da je smrtnost od korone u Nemačkoj 10x manja nego u Španiji, Francuskoj i pet puta manja nego u Švajcarskoj, a da ne pominjemo Italiju? Iz čega Švabo crpi snagu za borbu protiv ove pošasti?

[Krošek]

jedan clanak na tragu jucerasnje diskusije o testiranju itd...

 

mislim da bi svako trebalo da bude upoznat sa italijanskim i juznokorejskim primerom, dve razvijene zemlje, sa demokratskim uredjenjem, slicnog broja stanovnika, gde je epidemija pocela otprilike u isto vreme

 

iz teksta se takodje vidi da u italiji nije nikakav kolaps

 

Quote

/rojters/ Special Report: Italy and South Korea virus outbreaks reveal disparity in deaths and tactics

Emilio Parodi

 

March 12, 2020 / 3:10 PM / Updated 6 hours ago

...

Italy started out testing widely, then narrowed the focus so that now, the authorities don’t have to process hundreds of thousands of tests. But there’s a trade-off: They can’t see what’s coming and are trying to curb the movements of the country’s entire population of 60 million people to contain the disease. Even Pope Francis, who has a cold and delivered his Sunday blessing over the internet from inside the Vatican, said he felt “caged in the library.”

Thousands of miles away in South Korea, authorities have a different response to a similar-sized outbreak. They are testing hundreds of thousands of people for infections and tracking potential carriers like detectives, using cell phone and satellite technology.

Both countries saw their first cases of the disease called COVID-19 in late January. South Korea has since reported 67 deaths out of nearly 8,000 confirmed cases, after testing more than 222,000 people. In contrast, Italy has had 1,016 deaths and identified more than 15,000 cases after carrying out more than 73,000 tests on an unspecified number of people.

Epidemiologists say it is not possible to compare the numbers directly. But some say the dramatically different outcomes point to an important insight: Aggressive and sustained testing is a powerful tool for fighting the virus.

...

South Korea, which has a slightly smaller population than Italy at about 50 million people, has around 29,000 people in self-quarantine. It has imposed lockdowns on some facilities and at least one apartment complex hit hardest by outbreaks. But so far no entire regions have been cut off.

Seoul says it is building on lessons learned from an outbreak of Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) in 2015 and working to make as much information available as possible to the public. It has embarked on a massive testing program, including people who have very mild illness, or perhaps don’t even have symptoms, but who may be able to infect others.

This includes enforcing a law that grants the government wide authority to access data: CCTV footage, GPS tracking data from phones and cars, credit card transactions, immigration entry information, and other personal details of people confirmed to have an infectious disease. The authorities can then make some of this public, so anyone who may have been exposed can get themselves - or their friends and family members - tested.

In addition to helping work out who to test, South Korea’s data-driven system helps hospitals manage their pipeline of cases. People found positive are placed in self-quarantine and monitored remotely through a smartphone app, or checked regularly in telephone calls, until a hospital bed becomes available. When a bed is available, an ambulance picks the person up and takes the patient to a hospital with air-sealed isolation rooms. All of this, including hospitalization, is free of charge.

...

the approach comes at the cost of some privacy. South Korea’s system is an intrusive mandatory measure that depends on people surrendering what, for many in Europe and America, would be a fundamental right of privacy. Unlike China and the island-state of Singapore, which have used similar methods, South Korea is a large democracy with a population that is quick to protest policies it does not like.

...

Traditional responses such as locking down affected areas and isolating patients can be only modestly effective, and may cause problems in open societies, says South Korea’s Deputy Minister for Health and Welfare Kim Gang-lip. In South Korea’s experience, he told reporters on Monday, lockdowns mean people participate less in tracing contacts they may have had. “Such an approach,” he said, “is close-minded, coercive, and inflexible.”

ITALY “AT THE LIMIT”

...

Decisions about testing hinge partly on what can be done with people who test positive, at a time when the healthcare system is already under stress. In Italy at first, regional authorities tested widely and counted all positive results in the published total, even if people did not have symptoms.

Then, a few days after the patient known as Mattia /prvi slucaj/ was found to have COVID-19, Italy changed tack, only testing and announcing cases of people with symptoms. The authorities said this was the most effective use of resources: The risk of contagion seemed lower from patients with no symptoms, and limited tests help produce reliable results more quickly. The approach carried risks: People with no symptoms still can be infected and spread the virus.

On the other hand, the more you test the more you find, so testing in large numbers can put hospital systems under strain, said Massimo Antonelli, director of intensive care at the Fondazione Policlinico Universitario Agostino Gemelli IRCCS in Rome. Testing involves elaborate medical processes and follow-up. “The problem is actively searching for cases,” he said. “It means simply the numbers are big.”

Italy has a generally efficient health system, according to international studies. Its universal healthcare receives funding below the European Union average but is comparable with South Korea’s, at 8.9% of GDP against 7.3% in South Korea, according to the World Health Organization.

Now, that system has been knocked off balance. Staff are being brought into accident and emergency departments, holidays have been canceled and doctors say they are delaying non-urgent operations to free up intensive care beds.

Pier Luigi Viale, head of the infectious disease unit at Sant’ Orsola-Malpighi hospital in Bologna, is working around the clock - in three jobs. His hospital is handling multiple coronavirus cases. His doctors are shuttling to other hospitals and clinics in the area to lend their expertise and help out with cases. In addition, his doctors also have to deal with patients with other contagious diseases who are struggling to survive.

“If it drags on for weeks or months we’ll need more reinforcements,” he told Reuters.

Last week, the mayor of Castiglione d’Adda, a town of about 5,000 people in Lombardy’s “red zone” which was the first to be locked down, made an urgent online appeal for help. He said his small town had had to close its hospital and was left with one doctor to treat more than 100 coronavirus patients. Three of the town’s four doctors were sick or in self quarantine.

“Doctors and nurses are at the limit,” said a nurse from the hospital where Mattia was taken in. “If you have to manage people under artificial respiration you have to be watching them constantly, you can’t look after the new cases that come in.”

Studies so far suggest that every positive case of coronavirus can infect two other people, so local authorities in Lombardy have warned that the region’s hospitals face a serious crisis if the spread continues - not just for COVID-19 patients but also for others whose treatment has been delayed or disrupted. As the crisis spreads into Italy’s less prosperous south, the problems will be magnified.

Intensive care facilities face the most intense pressure. They require specialist staff and expensive equipment and are not set up for mass epidemics. In total, Italy has around 5,000 intensive care beds. In the winter months, some of these are already occupied by patients with respiratory problems. Lombardy and Veneto have just over 1,800 intensive care beds between public and private systems, only some of which can be set aside for COVID-19 patients.

The government has asked regional authorities to increase the number of intensive care places by 50% and to double the number of beds for respiratory and contagious diseases, while reorganizing staff rosters to ensure adequate staffing. Some 5,000 respirators have been acquired for intensive care stations, the first of which are due to arrive on Friday, deputy Economy Minister Laura Castelli said.

The region has already asked nursing institutes to allow students to bring forward their graduation to get more nurses into the system early. Pools of intensive care specialists and anaesthetists are to be set up, including staff from outside the worst affected regions.

To add to the burden, hospitals in Italy depend on medical personnel to try to trace the contacts that people who test positive have had with others. One doctor in Bologna, who asked not to be named, said he had spent a 12-hour day tracing people who had been in contact with just one positive patient, to ensure those who next need testing are found.

“You can do that if the number of cases remains two to three,” the doctor said. “But if they grow, something has to give. The system will implode if we continue to test everyone actively and then have to do all this.”

“MAXIMUM POWER”

...

“Patient 31,” /prvi slucaj/ as she became known, was a member of a secretive church which Deputy Minister for Health and Welfare Kim Gang-lip said has since linked to 61% of cases. Infections spread beyond the congregation after the funeral of a relative of the church’s founder was held at a nearby hospital, and there were several other smaller clusters around the country.

Once the church cluster was identified, South Korea opened around 50 drive-through testing facilities around the country.

In empty parking lots, medical staff in protective clothing lean into cars to check their passengers for fever or breathing difficulties, and if needed, collect samples. The process usually takes about 10 minutes, and people usually receive the results in a text reminding them to wash their hands regularly and wear face masks.

A total of 117 institutions in South Korea have equipment to conduct the tests, according to the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC). The numbers fluctuate daily, but an average of 12,000 is possible, and maximum capacity is 20,000 tests a day. The government pays for tests of people with symptoms, if referred by a doctor. Otherwise, people who want to be tested can pay up to 170,000 won ($140), said an official at a company called Seegene Inc, which supplies 80% of the country’s kits and says it can test 96 samples at once.

There are also 130 quarantine officers like Kim Jeong-hwan, who focus on minute details to track potential patients. The 28-year-old public health doctor spends his whole working days remotely checking up on people who have tested positive for COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus.

Kim, who is doing military service, is one of a small army of quarantine officers who track the movements of any potential carriers of the disease by phone, app or the signals sent by cell phones or the black boxes in automobiles. Their goal: To trace all the contacts people may have had, so they too can be tested.

“I haven’t seen anyone telling bad lies,” Kim said. “But lots of people generally don’t remember exactly what they did.”

Underlining their determination, quarantine officers told Reuters they located five cases after a worker in a small town caught the virus and went to work in a “coin karaoke,” a bar where a machine lets people sing a few songs for a dollar. At first, the woman, who was showing symptoms, did not tell the officers where she worked, local officials told Reuters. But they put the puzzle together after questioning her acquaintances and obtaining GPS locations on her mobile device.

“Now, quarantine officers have maximum power and authority,” said Kim Jun-geun, an official at Changnyeong County who collects information from quarantine officers.

South Korea’s government also uses location data to customize mass messages sent to cellphones, notifying every resident when and where a nearby case is confirmed.

Lee Hee-young, a preventative medicine expert who is also running the coronavirus response team in South Korea’s Gyeonggi province, said South Korea has gone some of the way after MERS to increase its infrastructure to respond to infectious diseases. But she said only 30% of the changes the country needs have happened. For instance, she said, maintaining a trained workforce and up-to-date infrastructure at smaller hospitals isn’t easy.

“Until we fix this,” Lee said, “explosions like this can keep blowing up anywhere.”

Reporting by Emilio Parodi, Stephen Jewkes, Angelo Amante, Sangmi Cha and Ju-min Park; Additional reporting by James Mackenzie in Milan and Josh Smith in Seoul, Julie Steenhuysen in New York; Edited by Sara Ledwith and Jason Szep

 

[Ravanelli]

4 minutes ago, omiljeni said:

ja vodim decu na igralište i planiram i u buduće. pranje ruku otprlike 1 ceo minut kad se vratimo.

ali ja sam se već odavno pomirio da ćemo verovatno fasovati virus u prvih mesec dana epidemije. hanuma je svakog dana u kontaktu sa ~50 random ljudi koji dolaze na MRI snimanje ili su u pratnji ljudi koji dolaze da se snimaju. počeli su da nose maske i rukavice, ali kapiram da ih to neće dugo spašavati.

čim primetimo prve simptome zabarikadiraćemo se u stan i čekati da prođe. komšiju ću da cimnem da mi donese nešto iz prodavnice i ostavi ispred vrata i tako 15 dana ili već koliko bude trebalo. zvaćemo i ove za testiranje, ali kapiram da će nas iskulirati.

šta ću sa klincima u te 2 nedelje...nemam pojma. verovatno mi neće biti do života kad me spiči taj virus, a još kad njih dvoje krenu da divljaju po stanu od 7 do 21h...

ima da nauče napamet aladina, frozen, knjigu o džungli i ostalo

 

sranje što virus možeš preneti još 5 nedelja posle ozdravljenja

[James Marshall]

Molimo da se ne kače ova "lanac sreće" pisma sa FB. 

[Lo Zingaro]

1 minute ago, Gricko said:

Kako je moguće da je smrtnost od korone u Nemačkoj 10x manja nego u Španiji, Francuskoj i pet puta manja nego u Švajcarskoj, a da ne pominjemo Italiju? Iz čega Švabo crpi snagu za borbu protiv ove pošasti?

Mislim da svabo malo folira svoju superiornost. U Italiji imas kancer, spici te korona vodis se kao umrli od korone i tako za sve zeznute bolesti. Siguran sam da ga svabo evidentira kao kancer a ne koronu.

[Zabalujev]

Na BusPlus validatorima vrte savete za izbegavanje kontakta u slučaju pandemije. Između ostalog, da se ne držimo za šipke. 

 

Evo i cara koji na desnoj ima hiruršku rukavicu kojom se pridržava. Sve po Kuranu, modifikovano.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Zabalujev

[Ravanelli]

1 minute ago, Krošek said:

jedan clanak na tragu jucerasnje diskusije o testiranju itd...

 

mislim da bi svako trebalo da bude upoznat sa italijanskim i juznokorejskim primerom, dve razvijene zemlje, sa demokratskim uredjenjem, slicnog broja stanovnika, gde je epidemija pocela otprilike u isto vreme

 

iz teksta se takodje vidi da u italiji nije nikakav kolaps

 

 

e čitao sam juče baš ovaj članak

nije loš

u suštini, južnokorejci su bili spremniji zbog MARS-a

ali ima veze i sa time da su uhodili zaražene preko mobilnih i njihovnih aktivnosti (npr gde su koristili kreditnu karticu)

[Skyhighatrist]

1 hour ago, slow said:

 

Jeste Bolsonaro

 

https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/brazilski-mediji-brazilski-predsjednik-ima-koronavirus/2164908.aspx

Bolsonaro afirma que não contraiu coronavírus

Presidente fez o teste nesta quinta-feira (12), após informação de que o chefe da Secom da Presidência contraiu a doença

 

Bolsonaro potvrdio da nije zaražen koronavirusom

Predsednik se testirao u četvrtak 12. marta posle vesti da je (šta god bila funkcija tog pomoćnika) potvrđeno zaražen.

 

[Lord Protector]

9 minutes ago, Gricko said:

Kako je moguće da je smrtnost od korone u Nemačkoj 10x manja nego u Španiji, Francuskoj i pet puta manja nego u Švajcarskoj, a da ne pominjemo Italiju? Iz čega Švabo crpi snagu za borbu protiv ove pošasti?

 

genetika?

 

... možda germani i sloveni lakše podnose virus od romanskih naroda

 

U švajcarskoj je npr. najteže pogođen italijanski kanton

 

spekulišem, ko zna šta je pravi razlog

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by slow

[ToniAdams]

10 minutes ago, Gricko said:

Kako je moguće da je smrtnost od korone u Nemačkoj 10x manja nego u Španiji, Francuskoj i pet puta manja nego u Švajcarskoj, a da ne pominjemo Italiju? Iz čega Švabo crpi snagu za borbu protiv ove pošasti?

ja sam trenutno u njemackama i vec sam drugu nedelju na bolovanju zbog korone. radio sam test u prosli ponedeljak, i jos nisam dobio rez, znaci pre 11 dana.

u medjuvremenu sam sa dr bio svaki dan na vezi.

njegovo je misljenje da sam na osnovu simptoma, i cinjenice da sam sezonac vec prelezao pre mesec dana, zabo neki blazi oblik. samoinicijativno sam u karantinu vec 11 dana.

 

prvi dan su me trebali primiti u terminu za hitne slucajeve, ali sam i pored toga cekao sat ipo sa jos gomilom ljudi. niko od lekara nije imao masku, i gotovo da su se sudarali.

 

juce sam trazio rezultate na uvid, putem mejla a ne usmeno, i dobio neki nemust odgovor.

ne i rezultate na kojima sam insistirao.

toliko o nemackoj tacnosti i preciznosti. verujem da su ispred mnogih, ali verujem i da mozda friziraju statistiku, kako ne bi doslo do panike.

 

ali siguran sam da i tesko oboleli verovatno imaju mnogo bolje uslove nego npr u italiji. tu bih trazio odgovor na pitanje zasto najmanje umiru.

 

cekam instrukcije, al u pon vrv na poso, na kom su jos 3 slucaja potvrdjena. videcemo kako ce ici. 

 

vrtici, skole, muzeiji itd zatvoreni do posle uskrsa.

 

31 minutes ago, napadaj said:

Čiji?
 

 

 

pusti, bolje da nisi vido, imam poverenja u vlasti.

Edited March 13, 2020 by ToniAdams

[gospa buba]

8 minutes ago, Zabalujev said:

Na BusPlus validatorima vrte savete za izbegavanje kontakta u slučaju pandemije. Između ostalog, da se ne držimo za šipke. 

 

stvarno?

[Aleksija]

1 minute ago, ToniAdams said:

ja sam trenutno u njemackama i vec sam drugu nedelju na bolovanju zbog korone. radio sam test u prosli ponedeljak, i jos nisam dobio rez, znaci pre 11 dana.

u medjuvremenu sam sa dr bio svaki dan na vezi.

njegovo je misljenje da sam na osnovu simptoma, i cinjenice da sam sezonac vec prelezao pre mesec dana, zabo neki blazi oblik. samoinicijativno sam u karantinu vec 11 dana.

 

prvi dan su me trebali primiti u terminu za hitne slucajeve, ali sam i pored toga cekao sat ipo sa jos gomilom ljudi. niko od lekara nije imao masku, i gotovo da su se sudarali.

 

juce sam trazio rezultate na uvid, putem mejla a ne usmeno, i dobio neki nemust odgovor.

ne i rezultate na kojima sam insistirao.

toliko o nemackoj tacnosti i preciznosti. verujem da su ispred mnogih, ali verujem i da mozda friziraju statistiku, kako ne bi doslo do panike.

 

cekam instrukcije, al u pon vrv na poso, na kom su jos 3 slucaja potvrdjena. videcemo kako ce ici. 

 

 

 

pusti, bolje da nisi vido

[Krošek]

1 minute ago, Ravanelli said:

e čitao sam juče baš ovaj članak

nije loš

u suštini, južnokorejci su bili spremniji zbog MARS-a

ali ima veze i sa time da su uhodili zaražene preko mobilnih i njihovnih aktivnosti (npr gde su koristili kreditnu karticu)

 

da, jedino tako su uspeli da se izbore sa epidemijom, drugi model je kineski. ostale zemlje nemaju neko mocno sredstvo borbe i dinamika novih slucajeva je prilicno slicna.

 

da bi se drasticno promenio tok epidemije kao u kini i koreji potrebne su bas, ali bas, drasticne mere, ili ekstremno represivne ili ekstremno haj tek i kreativne. svi koji to ne preduzmu su u istom sosu. ali to ce se u razvijenim zemljama odraziti na apsolutni broj umrlih, i nece uciniti bolest smrtonosnijom. zato se ne treba koncentrisati na razlike u stopama smrtnosti u razlicitim zemljama bazirane na poznatim slucajevima, to je besmisleno. 

 

kada kazem zemlja tu ne racunam drzave gradove kao sto je singapur. 

[ToniAdams]

Just now, Aleksija said:

 i tebi!

ma oke je, proslo je gotovo skroz.

najveci utisak su mi lekari i njihova zbunjenost.