F1

[Ivo Petović]

Mislim da će u Rendži vrlo brzo pasti neka glava. Ovo je ispod svakog nivoa.

[renne]

još jedna smor trka

[burekdzija]

Prosto vise ne znam ni sta bih napisao. Najinteresantniji deo trke je bio kad su pre starta trolovali Botasa kako ce ga sjebati bela linija na startu... i izgubi covek start.

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

Au, kako su Merdže isprašile Ferari danas. Ako su prve tri trke bile da su Ferariji na papiru nadmoćniji,a Mercedesi na stazu srećniji i spretniji, ovo je danas bilo Novak vs Berdych.

 

Vetel će sam sebe dovesti do potpune propasti ove sezone, očigledno je da još vuče onih nekoliko krucijalnih grešaka iz prošle, i da oseća toliki pritisak da je na svakoj trci od ovogodišnjih pet nešto pogrešio. Danas, ajde, bilo je biti ili ne biti i kasno kočenje na startu, ali jbt nije morao onako da zadžvari na kočnice tako duboko, pa ne bio bog otac mogao izneti onakav manevar po spoljnoj liniji danas. Što mu je upropastilo bar 1/2 trke.

 

A Ferari jbt, glavni strateg tima stvarno treba da bude zatočen u nekoj tamnici. Em teraju Leklera da propušta Vetela kad ovaj nije brži, em danas kad je Vetel bio očito brži, oni ne govore Lekleru da se skloni, pri tom su bili na potpuno različitim strategijama, Lekler na tvrdim gumama (wtf was that all about?!), Vetel na srednjim, i opet je dreždao iza njega 4-5 krugova. Nije baš da bi bio ispred Verstapena da toga nije bilo, ali opet, nisu to mogli znati.

 

Hamilton, jebi ga, suveren. Ma i Botas, sve osim lošeg starta.

[burekdzija]

Ferari je prosle sezone propustio sansu, onda su zbog Vettelovih gluposti smenili Arrivabenea, dosao novi sef i novi sistem, logicno da se raspadaju. Na stranu sto je Binotto vrsan inzenjer, ali ne mora da bude i dobar ceo. Kontraprimer je Wolff, bivsi trkac i zna da mlati pare, napravio je masinu od tima koja melje, verovatno pola ne bi razumeo kad bi mu Binotto pricao nesto o motorima, sto mu ne smeta da ih delje.

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

12 minutes ago, burekdzija said:

Ferari je prosle sezone propustio sansu, onda su zbog Vettelovih gluposti smenili Arrivabenea,

 

Misliš, zbog generalnog neuspeha sezone (dakle: Vetelovih gluposti na stazi), ili je nešto Vetel tamo burgijao i lobirao da ga smene?

 

[Sludge Factory]

44 minutes ago, Marvin (Paranoid Android) said:

Ako su prve tri trke bile da su Ferariji na papiru nadmoćniji

 

To je jedan veliki miskonsepsn, mudo, sarma kind of thing, koje mediji i Toto Volf prodaju narodu. Iskreno, ne znam sto to vise rade, ali valjda oni znaju. 

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

7 minutes ago, Sludge Factory said:

 

To je jedan veliki miskonsepsn, mudo, sarma kind of thing, koje mediji i Toto Volf prodaju narodu. Iskreno, ne znam sto to vise rade, ali valjda oni znaju. 

 

Ma daj, pa Ferariji su razbili u predsezonskom testu u Barseloni, i na prvoj trci sezone, bili su konsistentno brži i tokom treninga, tek u kvalifikacijama Mercedes je izgurao napred. U Bahreinu takođe, plus su u Bahreinu zauzeli 1-2 u kvalifikacijama. Toto Volf nema mnogo veze s time, imamo empirijske dokaze da je Ferari tokom developmenta pre početka sezone bio vrlo u prednosti. Sada smo već zagazili mesec i po u sezonu, potpuno je normalno i da je Mercedes napravio velike korake napred što su uradili nakon Bahreina, a da Ferari stagnira, dešava se non stop.

 

Vrlo moguće da mediji i dalje drže stare linije sa kojom su ušli u sezonu, ali ne verujem da Toto Volf ima neku magiju ili moć da to isto čini.

 

E da, možda sam trebao reći "prve dve" umesto "prve tri" trike, Kina je realno Mercedesova teritorija, ali sećam se da se i dalje tada larmalo o superiornosti Ferarija koja treba da se pokaže.

[Sludge Factory]

Pa larmalo se, lepo kazes, larmao se i u predsezoni, kao i svake godine do sad. Ferrari je mozda (a i to je jedno veeeliko mozda) imao prednost u prvoj nedelji testiranja, jer je Mercedes testirao sa starom sasijom i aerodinamikom, kad su doneli novu u drugoj nedelji testiranja ta (navodna) prednost Ferrarija je nestala.

 

Mercedes prosto ima tehnolosku prednost na svim poljima, jer je radio na tome bar 5 godina pre nego sto je nova turbo era (era njihove dominacije) zvanicno uopste i pocela, dakle pre svih ostalih. Dobra organizacija, mnogo (talentovanog) ljudstva, mnogo novca i to je to. 

 

Ferrari i Red Bull mozda treba da se zapitaju gde im odlaze prilicno veliki budzeti (posebno Ferrari s obzriom na to kako im je los in-season development), ali s druge strane, malo je verovatno da ce prestici Mercedes u skorije vreme, ako ikada, pod ovim pravilima. Hendikep je preveliki. Pitanje je i zasto su pristali na ovo in the first place, ali verovatno svima treba "osvajanje" hibridne tehnologije i F1 dobro dodje kao poligon za razvoj i ispitivanja. 

 

Kao navijac Ferrarija, s druge strane, i uzimajuci sve to u obzir, ja uopste nisam nezadovoljan niti depresivan™ svih ovih godina, i danas. Takav je sport, takva tura, procice i to. Da, mogu stvari drugacije i bolje, ali to su tamo sve ljudi, nisu roboti. I takmice se, sto sa drugima, sto sami sa sobom, normalno je da ce da grese. Danas ona dvojica sa SK napala Grozana ko da im jebe zene. Jeste da ima spisak gluposti koje je pravio u karijeri, ali ono danas... covek se trka, ono... bavi se sportom, trka se protiv sebi ravnog, mora da proba nekako, nesto. Pri tom je sve bilo regularno. Unistio gume, Ginter Stajner ce da place, big f deal. Opustite se i gledajte kako ljudi teraju tocak. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Sludge Factory

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

10 minutes ago, Sludge Factory said:

Pa larmalo se, lepo kazes, larmao se i u predsezoni, kao i svake godine do sad. Ferrari je mozda (a i to je jedno veeeliko mozda) imao prednost u prvoj nedelji testiranja, jer je Mercedes testirao sa starom sasijom i aerodinamikom, kad su doneli novu u drugoj nedelji testiranja ta (navodna) prednost Ferrarija je nestala.

 

Huh, ovo stvarno nisam znao.

[burekdzija]

2 hours ago, Marvin (Paranoid Android) said:

 

Misliš, zbog generalnog neuspeha sezone (dakle: Vetelovih gluposti na stazi), ili je nešto Vetel tamo burgijao i lobirao da ga smene?

 

 

Da, zbog neuspeha na stazi.

[Jimmy Kowalski]

Apsolutno je nesporno da je Ferrari bio najbrzi u predsezoni, oko toga nema dileme. Jedine probleme koje su imali bili su sa motorom, zbog cega su ih u Melburnu zavrnuli sto se odrazilo na rezultat. U Bahreinu su ih ponovo odvrnuli, delovalo je da je sve u redu, prvi startni red, koji je trebalo da dovede do rutinske 1-2 pobede, ali znamo kako i zasto se to nije i dogodilo. U Kini je blagu prednost imao Mercedes, u Bakuu ostaje otvoreno pitanje sta bi bilo da se Leclerc nije skucao..

 

U najavi sezone, bila je analiza jednog aero inzinjera oko aero koncepata za ovu sezonu i njegovo zapazanje je bilo vrlo interesantno:

 

Quote

Looking at the cars this season, you can see that the approaches to this problem largely fall into two camps. We call these 'outboard-loaded' and 'inboard loaded'.

 

Those names refer to the point on the front wing on which the most downforce is exerted, and consequently where the airflow is being directed.

 

'Outboard' means at the outside edge; 'inboard' towards the middle. What makes things particularly interesting is that Mercedes and Ferrari have opposite styles.

 

Mercedes have gone for 'outboard'. Their car has the highest and steepest bits of the wing at the outside tips, where the flaps meet what is called the end-plate, the vertical structure at the outside of the wing.

 

This generates suction, or low pressure, outboard. Air from the middle of the car will travel towards this area of low pressure. We call this style 'out-washing' - ie, it sends air outwards, away from the car, in an attempt to control the tyre wake.

The Ferrari approach is more loaded in the middle of the wing and quite unloaded at the tips - on the wing, you can see that the highest point of the flaps is at their inside edge, and they slope downwards towards the outside of the car.

 

This draws air towards the centre and results in an 'in-washing' air flow.

 

Why might Ferrari's philosophy work well?

 

One advantage of reducing the download at the tips of the wing - what we call 'backing-out' the tips - is that airflow structures generated there will be much less stressed.

I'll have to explain what that means before I go on to say why it could be a benefit. Bear with me - we're heading into the complexities of aerodynamic theory for a moment.

Air near the surface of a wing, what we call the "boundary layer", likes to travel towards low pressure, which speeds it up, but does not like having to go back into high pressure, which will slow it down.

 

The air will only put up with a certain amount of speeding up and slowing down before eventually it gets too stressed and won't hang on to the surface any more. Once this happens you have what we call "stall". Instead of a nice, clean, downforce-generating wing, you just end up with a load of wake, or "dirty air" - and much less downforce.

Actually, the wings themselves don't give us much of a problem - all the slots between the flaps help us out there.

 

It's the end-plate which is tricky. Because the rules mean we're pretty much stuck with a big flat plate, with very little curvature to help the air, all you can do is reduce the amount of speeding up and slowing down the air at the surface has to do - by 'backing-out' the tips.

The benefits of Ferrari's design

There are two potential advantages to Ferrari's approach.

 

The first is that the reduced tendency to stall might produce a car that is more predictable to drive. And the more predictable a car is, the greater the driver's confidence.

For this reason, quite often, a more predictable car with more consistent downforce but slightly less maximum load will end up being quicker than a car that in theory has more downforce but that which cannot generate the maximum load consistently.

 

That's because the inherent nervousness of the 'peaky' approach means the driver does not have the confidence to push to the limit, as he fears he might lose control.

In addition, the vortices - little tornadoes of spinning air - which are generated at the end-plate and which are so crucial to a car's overall performance can be drawn inside the tyre to help control the wake.

Where might Ferrari go wrong?

Looking at the performance of cars from testing - always a fool's errand but bear with me - you might conclude that the Ferrari-style front wing is doing the better job. The Ferrari appears the quickest car at the moment.

 

However, because of the need to back out the ends of the wing so much, it is always going to struggle to match the Mercedes style for absolute load.

 

Remember how we need to have a good balance of front and rear downforce? Well, as the teams develop through the season, putting on more and more downforce at the back of the car, Ferrari might struggle to balance it out at the front. If so, that would give them a car hamstrung with understeer which just won't turn into the corners.

 

On the Ferrari, there are already clues that they might be trying to compensate elsewhere for a lack of downforce generated from the front wing.

 

The area beside the driver, at the front of the sidepods, around what we call in F1 the 'barge boards', can produce a lot of downforce. The barge boards are the curved pieces that jut out from the main body of the car, and which direct the airflow in ways the designers want it to go.

 

The key with this, though, is that you want to keep as much energy in the air as possible, so as it travels down the car you can use that energy in the diffuser, at the back of the car.

 

Air from the bargeboard area flows under the floor beneath the driver before feeding straight into the diffuser. The faster you can get the air to flow through the diffuser, the lower the pressure under the car and the more downforce it creates, sucking the car on to the track. But lots of manipulation in this area carries the risk of losing energy from the air.

 

Mercedes have reduced the size of their bargeboards this year. This might mean they are generating less downforce at the front of their floor, but it gives them lots of potential to create plenty of downforce at the rear with the diffuser.

 

By contrast, Ferrari's bargeboards have got bigger this year.

 

This could be because they need to make up the front downforce which their front wing can't create. But it could well limit the ability of their diffuser to do its thing.

In this way, Ferrari's philosophy could not only give them problems balancing the car front to rear as the season progresses, but also limit the amount of total downforce it can create.

 

Ferrari might not be facing any problems now, and they certainly look to have started the year with a quick car.

 

But as the season goes on, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mercedes out-develop them, while the Scuderia find themselves stuck down a blind alley.

 

 

Setio se ove analize kada sam danas video izjavu Binotta da su se mozda zajebali i izabrali pogresan koncept. Zbog toga ne mogu da pariraju Mecki koja ih je jednostavno presisala razvijajuci svoj bolid. Kada se tome dodaju jos i standardne takticke gluposti koje crveni prave skoro na svakoj trci, cak i podijum postaje nedostizan..

 

A steta, mogla je ova sezona da bude dobra, ali opet je samo Mercedes uspeo da provali sve finese i otkljuca potencijal svog bolida..

 

 

[ducca]

Max GP

[burekdzija]

1 hour ago, maharaja said:

Na ovoj stazi u Holandiji je preticanje gotovo nemoguće

 

Srecom pa imamo u kalendaru jos i Monako, Hungaroring, Barselonu... oh wait 

[ducca]

 
Srecom pa imamo u kalendaru jos i Monako, Hungaroring, Barselonu... oh wait [emoji6]

...Rusiju, Singapur. No dobro.

Ali biće bolje sledeće kad stignu i ulice Hanoja.