Španija i Katalonija

[Miralem]

dok desni vode redom u prosperitet.

[salkodinamitas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OppX5KZCPOQ

[hazard]

dok desni vode redom u prosperitet.

 

u poređenju sa takvim levima - da (pogledati ceo Zapad)

[Miralem]

ako pogledamo evropu, najuspesnije drzave su napravile kompromis izmedju levice i desnice.

[hazard]

Jesu. Ali takve ovi s skroz sa leva gledaju kao da su suviše desno

[vememah]

Rahoj dao veliki intervju današnjem El Paisu - ceo intervju na engleskom dostupan je ovde:

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/07/inenglish/1507389735_673588.html

 

Deo oko mogućih pregovora:

Q. You have on the table a notable list of candidates to mediate in this situation.

 

A. The goodwill of the people is well known and they should be appreciated for it. I would like to say something about mediation: we don’t need mediators. What we need is for those who are breaking the law and those who have put themselves above the law to rectify their position. There is also talk about how we need to negotiate. But the unity of Spain is not up for negotiation. And what’s more there can be no negotiations with the threat of breaking the unity of Spain. Right now there is a negotiation that is the priority, and it is that Mr Puigdemont negotiates and comes to an agreement with the opposition groups in the Catalan parliament, which represent more than half of Catalans, and who have been stopped from even debating the liquidation of the Constitution and the [Catalan] Estatut, or the calling of an illegal referendum.

 

Q. Does the government have any communication channel open with Puigdemont or [deputy premier Oriol] Junqueras?

 

A. The only thing the government has, and knows, is the idea that the unity of Spain cannot be discussed, nor mediated nor be the object of mediation, nor negotiate with the threat of breaking up the unity of Spain.

 

Q. And what can be negotiated?

 

A. Within the law anything. Another thing is whether agreements are reached.

 

Q. And can negotiations begin now? You say that within the law anything can be negotiated. When?

 

A. While there is no return to the law, I of course will not be negotiating. The prime minister of an advanced and democratic country cannot negotiate with those who ignore the laws. When there is a rectification we will be in a different and normal situation. As we have been during the 40 years in which a lot of things have been negotiated.

 

Q. So if Mr Puigdemont expressly and publicly renounces the declaration of independence, would you be willing to talk to him the next day?

 

A. No. Mr Puigdemont has a first priority, which is to talk to the Catalan parliament. What is clear is that we are in a very different situation. This has not happened, and as such we should not get ahead of ourselves. I want the return to normality and it is clear that the return to normality would put us in a different situation.

 

Q. The government is not imposing conditions then such as stating that Puigdemont or Junqueras could not now take part in negotiations?

 

A. We are in the situation we find ourselves in right now. We need to set priorities. The priorities are the return to the law and normality.

 

Q. But this is the situation in which we find ourselves, in which they are considering the possibility of a negotiation.

 

A. No, I already said to you that there is no negotiation. I don’t have to negotiate anything. I have the obligation to call on them to return to the law and normality.

 

Q. In the not so immediate future, might your government consider a Constitutional reform?

 

A. This is not the time to change the blueprint or to say what might happen in 10 months. What Mr Puigdemont has done has consequences, such as companies packing up and leaving and the division that has been created in Catalan society: it will affect tourism, people’s pockets and the Catalonian debt.

There are many things that can be discussed in the future but what I will say now is that there are things I am not going to renounce, such as national sovereignty and national unity. But we can talk and discuss. There is already a commission in Congress for that purpose. But that is something for the future and it has nothing to do with the challenges we are facing now.

 

 

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/07/inenglish/1507389735_673588.html

Edited October 8, 2017 by vememah

[vememah]

Naslov Rahojevog intervjua ide preko svih 5 stubaca, što se inače radi samo u specijalnim slučajevima prema internim El Paisovim pravilima.

 

Cela naslovnica:

 

 

 

Inače, po Tviteru se sprdaju s eventualnom budućom katalonskom monetom tj. time koliko će bezvredna biti i to koristeći slike hiperinflacionih dinara (čika Jova Zmaj nastrada ni kriv ni dužan).

Edited October 8, 2017 by vememah

[MancMellow]

Budala. Šta ga košta da kaže - možemo da pregovaramo, evo sad, odmah, ali ne o nezavisnosti Katalonije. To sigurno ne bi zadovoljilo Puđdemona, ali bi izgledalo znatno bolje. Ali tako je to kad se prvo razmišlja o stranci, pa tek onda o državi. Uobičajena pojava ovih godina izgleda. 

[vememah]

Sad i ti zakeraš, bitno da je naglasio ono najvažnije.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8XOI02U0Go&start=65

Edited October 8, 2017 by vememah

[Kampokei]

Pa... zar nije cak i Portugal stariji?

[Anduril]

Jesu. Ali takve ovi s skroz sa leva gledaju kao da su suviše desno

 

Skandinavska socijal-demokratija je levo kako god da gledas. Kljucno je ono autoritarno vs liberalno a ne desno ili levo.

[Miralem]

Jesu. Ali takve ovi s skroz sa leva gledaju kao da su suviše desno

a ovi sa desnice ih ne optuzuju da su suvise evo, pa pokusavaju da malo liberalizuju?

[Lancia]

Jesu. Ali takve ovi s skroz sa leva gledaju kao da su suviše desno

Eto kad komentarises nesto sa stanovista ekstrema, zavrsis u nijansama i gradacijama. Levo-desno nigde moga stana....

[MancMellow]

Pa... zar nije cak i Portugal stariji?

 

Naravno da je stariji i to je jedno dva veka (zavisi kako gledaš). 

[dillinger]

Skandinavska socijal-demokratija je levo kako god da gledas. Kljucno je ono autoritarno vs liberalno a ne desno ili levo.

 

Jes vala zato lepo izabereš Pinočea i prevazišao si i tu dilemu.