Španija i Katalonija

[Filozof manijak]

MI smo stvarno avangarda za Evropu, otkad je Sloba to patentirao 

[radisa]

I kako sad ne vući paralele... [emoji38]ol:

 

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[Bojan]

Danas u 12 sati u Barceloni održaće se marš protiv nezavisnosti u organizaciji Societet Civil Catalana (SCC). Na kraju marša će Mario Vargas Llosa pročitati deklaraciju. Organizatori žele da pokažu glas tihe većine.

 

 

 

The banner "Basta, regain the sensibility" will preside on Sunday the demonstration called by Societat Civil Catalana (SCC) , the platform against independence, and its organizers hope that it will bring the "silent majority" against secession. Álex Ramos, vice-president of SCC, presented the event in Barcelona this morning and explained that former President of the European Parliament Josep Borrell and Nobel Prize winner Mario Vargas Llosa, among others, will read a manifesto at the end of the march, which will end opposite the Station de France.

The Popular Party and Citizens have joined the march. The PSC has invited its affiliates and sympathizers to participate in this and other manifestations that advocate to maintain unity and dialogue. "We will not accept symbology that does not reflect democratic values," warned Ramos. In many cases, ultras groups make a presence in marches in defense of the unit of Spain and Ramos has assured that in this case the demonstration will have a protection device of 300 people to invite those people to leave. "If they do not we will communicate it to the forces of order," he warned. The vice president of the entity has explained that at least 25 associations of different give their support to the march.

The march will begin at 12 noon in Plaza Urquinaona, down Via Laietana and turn to Pla de Palau. In front of the Station of France there will be a stage in which personalities like Vargas Llosa or Borrell read a manifesto. It had also been announced that it would be the film director Isabel Coixet, although it will not be. The organization foresees at least the arrival of a hundred coaches full of participants, although he did not specify where they will come. In the Twitter account of SSC Madrid were offered this morning places to go to Barcelona for 40 euros.

Ramos has said that independence is an "unsupportive revolution," which seeks "to make the wealthiest of Catalonia richer by not being in solidarity with the rest of Spain and" with supremacist tics. " Neither has he been in favor of the mediation attempts promoted by the last days. "To mediate there must be a conflict between equals, between countries and here there is no conflict, there are some gentlemen who do not comply with democracy and the rule of law," said Ramos when asked about this path to try to solve the political problem.

 

El Pais

 

 

 

Meni se čini da je vest o jučerašnjem mitingu Parlem/Hablemas u nekim svetskim medijima pogrešno predstavljen kao skup protiv nezavisnosti.

 

 

 

Pro-unity Catalans take to the streets to condemn ‘selfish revolution’

 

 

 

Ovo danas će biti prounity miting.

 

Inače, čini mi se i da je stranica organizatora Societa Civil Catalana trenutno nedostupna.

[MancMellow]

objasnjava mi drugar iz barselone kako dovoze demonstrante unioniste sa svih strana autobusima i jos pita da li mogu da zamislim tako nesto lol

 

[Bojan]

ehh sad neki kontra miting i autobusna okupacija..neki šolević

nisu naše fele

videlo se to onog trena kad je barsa unatoč svemu odigrala protiv las palmasa i kad je car pike otišao da igra u reprezentaciju.nije pike zdovc, nije ovo sfrjot

 

Naravno, sve je to dosta benignije nego što je bilo kod nas. Ali ima sličnosti.

 

Recimo, evo kako su prošla neka deca u školi čiji su roditelji pripadnici Guardia Civil, posle referenduma.

 

 

 

“YOU MUST BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOUR FATHER DID”

ORIOL GÜELL / EUROPA PRESS

The tension in Catalonia in the wake of Sunday’s independence vote has spilled out into schools.

“You must be happy with what your father did yesterday,” said one teacher at the El Palau High School in Barcelona province to a child early on Monday morning, a day after Spanish National Police and Civil Guard officers clashed with protesters at polling stations.

“We won’t be able to give you classes as usual today. We are really upset. The ignorance of the Civil Guard was easy to see. They only know how to hit people,” another teacher said.

Both statements were “very painful” for the many students of the school who are the children of Civil Guard officers, which has barracks around 100 meters from the school.

“My daughter couldn’t control herself. I had told her things were tense and that she should stay cool if they said anything to her. But she couldn’t contain herself,” said Javier Fernández who has lived in Catalonia since 1989.

“She said it was unfair, that [the teachers] were generalizing and asked if she could leave. They told her to go,” he added.

Teachers told the children to show their disgust for the police violence on Sunday. Five of them refused and called their families who came to collect them. “There were lots of children who didn’t have the courage to complain. They waited until they got home then cried,” one officer explained.

School principal Josep Anton Asín said that several parents had complained about what had happened and that the school was now investigating.

All sources consulted by this paper said the incident was down to the actions of “two or three” teachers but admitted they were concerned about the potential impact of the events in the community.

However, one parent pointed out that many teachers had known how to deescalate the tension. “There was one teacher who made [the students] laugh by saying, ‘You know I am in favor of independence, but we don’t talk politics in class’,” said parent Bartolomé Barba.

 

[Bojan]

Meni zapravo izgleda da se sa strane EU fino dampuje ovo sve.

Juče mi kaže kolega da za petak u pretrazi kod rojtersa i AP izađe svega par priloga , reda radi...

 

....shit has hit the fan...

 

Istina. Ja se samo nadam da je to neki vid ostavljanja prostora za posredovanje.

[Kampokei]

Ovo o "tihoj vecini" sada svi zivi upotrebljavaju, spanski mediji, nespanski mediji, EU zvanicnici u svojim saopstenjima. Jedino ne znamo da li je istina. Jedan poznanik Katalonac je neki dan napisao na FB kako njega zabole za katalonsku zastavu, kako u zivotu ne bi mogao da zapeva katalonsku himmu, ali da od pre neki dan shvata da spanska drzava nema sta da trazi u njegovom zivotu. Nije on sad neki tipican Katalonac (npr. lozi se na Laibach jel), ali mogu da razumem tu vrstu emocije i pitam se koliko ljudi misli slicno.

[Filozof manijak]

Bitne odluke u životu se ne donose na osnovu emocija

[pt 2.0]

Bitne odluke u životu se ne donose na osnovu emocija

a posebno ne na osnovu manipulacije emocijama.

 

ne znam puno o ovoj temi i neću da zauzimam previše digitalnog prostora, al od kako je počelo sve ovo zamišljam kako bi trebalo organizovati masovne ekskurzije špancima/kataloncima po ruti sarajevo-priština-beograd... pa onda manja mesta i sve dok ne shvate.

[gospa buba]

a posebno ne na osnovu manipulacije emocijama.

 

ne znam puno o ovoj temi i neću da zauzimam previše digitalnog prostora, al od kako je počelo sve ovo zamišljam kako bi trebalo organizovati masovne ekskurzije špancima/kataloncima po ruti sarajevo-priština-beograd... pa onda manja mesta i sve dok ne shvate.

nema shanse da se to shvati. i mi bismo ponovo.

[Frank Pembleton]

Dampuje (dump - izbaciti) ili denfuje (dämpfen - prigušiti)?

 

U pravu si ;-)

[MancMellow]

nema shanse da se to shvati. i mi bismo ponovo.

 

Mi smo uhvaceni u vicious circle, ljudi su vec pogubili domove, prijatelje, rodbinu, pare, domovine...ovo je fallout ciji je potencijal realno jos opasniji. Ali oni se nalaze na ivici, jos niko nije poginuo, jos nikom nije granata uletela u prozor, niko nije ubijen na ulici eto tako, izbacen iz kuce, firme gde radi, itd. 

 

Upravo je zapanjujuca lakoca sa kojom ljudi ulaze u potencijalno strahotne situacije kao sto je ova ili jos gore ovo sa Severnom Korejom. Ideja vodilja je - ma nece valjda, ko je lud da puca, ko je lud da baci nuklearku. Raspad Jugoslavije je odlicna lekcija, ali Prvi svetski rat je mislim jos bolja. Niko nije mislio da sledi onakva klanica, cak ni ljudi koji su sedeli u generalstabovima. 

 

Tako i sada, u Madridu verovatno misle - nemaju kud, nemaju cime, nemaju s kim, morace da sagnu glavu na kraju. U Barci misle - imamo vecinu u politicki aktivnom delu stanovnistva, imamo mlade, imamo PR, upornost pobedjuje na kraju, pobedila je toliko puta. 

 

Realnost vrlo lako moze da ispadne ni jedno ni drugo: da Madrid ne uspe da potcini Kataloniju, ali da Katalonija, a posebno Barcelona iz svega izadje tako izranjavljena (i bukvalno i u prenesenom znacenju), da vise nikad ne bude ono sto je danas i sto bi tek mogla da bude. Jednom kad pocnu da ginu ljudi, stvarnost izgleda dramaticno drugacije.

[harper]

objasnjava mi drugar iz barselone kako dovoze demonstrante unioniste sa svih strana autobusima i jos pita da li mogu da zamislim tako nesto lol

 

Ako nisu poneli jogurt pisi propalo.

[palikaris]

nema shanse da se to shvati. i mi bismo ponovo.

Tacno. Plus, stranci koje znam da su putovali po bivsoj jugoslaviji zakljucuju da je slovencima i hrvatima bolje sada, jer eto razvijeniji su i bogatiji od srbije, tako da su u pravu ato su se otcepili. Ne vredi da im objasnjavas da to nije bas tako jednostavno, i da su oni bili "bogatiji" i u jugoslaviji, i da smo svi zajedno izgubili 20-tak godina, neko vise neko manje, i u principu ih i dalje gubimo. Bogatiji su, trebali su da se odvoje, to je ta moronska logika.

 

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[Redoran]

Mi smo uhvaceni u vicious circle, ljudi su vec pogubili domove, prijatelje, rodbinu, pare, domovine...ovo je fallout ciji je potencijal realno jos opasniji. Ali oni se nalaze na ivici, jos niko nije poginuo, jos nikom nije granata uletela u prozor, niko nije ubijen na ulici eto tako, izbacen iz kuce, firme gde radi, itd.

 

Polako, nisu ni kod nas pogibije, granate i izbacivanja iz kuća počela preko noći. Do toga se došlo kroz proces koji je otpočeo nekim "mekšim" detaljima, na primer maltretiranjem dece u školama.