Španija i Katalonija

[Bojan]

Danas ide generalni štrajk

 

 

[Bojan]

 

[Kampokei]

Generalitatu nije bas lako u ovoj situaciji. Madridski mediji ironicno komentarisu da istovremeno pravdaju i proteste i upotrebu policije (a ovo sto vidimo na fotkama uglavnom ili cak iskljucivo i jeste katalonska policija).

[Budja]

Ista retorika, iste metode, tri učesnika.

 

Kao da repriziraju proteste u Ekvadoru.

 

[mlatko]

Sutra ovde skup/protest Salvinijeve desnice, da vidimo dal ce se iskopirati...

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk

[Bojan]

Dosta burno u Kataloniji. U petak je generalni štrajk okupio oko pola miliona ljudi u Barseloni i to prema procenama policije. Neki od organizatora i učesnika navode da je taj broj barem duplo veći. Iako su protesti i dalje nenasilni neredi su se, kao i prethodnih dana, nastavljali tokom noći. Mnogo nasilnih scena i povređenih za šta je prvenstveno odgovorna policija.

 

Katalonci su istrpeli jako mnogo pendreka, ali se čini da će to dati neke rezultate za njihovu stvar. Kao prvo stvar se neminovno prelila i izvan Katalonije. Veliki miting podrške održan je u Baskiji u San Sebastijanu. Protesti podrške održani su i u Madridu (opet uz nasilje policije). Pariski žuti prsluci su takođe dali podršku. Čak je postojala i blokada granice sa Francuske strane. I još u dosta gradova Evrope je data podrška i osuda postupanja policije.

 

Dosta toga je snimljeno i dokumentovano i nesumnjivo je da španska policija koristi ubačene provokatore, kao i da su im ultradesničarske grupe neka vrsta podrške. Vrlo verovatno je cilj bio da se jedan deo ljudi zastraši i povuče, dok bi se jedan deo radikalizovao i uvukao u spiralu nasilja koja bi kasnije dala legitimitet policiji i vladi za ovakve i šire akcije. To se nije dogodilo jer su i Katalonci imali dobro pripremljenu strategiju, te su svih ovih dana uspeli da se održe u većem broju na ulicama širom Katalonije, kao i da ne ulaze u direktne obračune sa policijom. Širom Barselone su paljeni kontejneri i podizane barikade (uglavnom noću) da bi se po dolasku razjarene policije te grupe povlačile na neku drugu lokaciju. Ova jurnjava je dosta izmorila policiju.

 

Dobar deo policijskih akcija izvodi katalonska policija Mosos. Oni su samo nominalno u nadležnosti Generalitata, ali su od uvođenja vanrednog stanja od strane Rahojeve vlade pod kontrolom centralnih vlasti. Ljudi koje je španska vlast tu ubacila kontrolišu stvar. Navodi se i da postoje spiskovi više hiljada "sumnjivih" mososovih službenika kojima preti otkaz ukoliko pokažu makar i malu kolebljivost. Dobar deo akcija izvodi Nacionalna policija koja je pod kontrolom centralnih vlasti i svakako lojalistički nastrojena. Pre donošenja presude poslata su i policijska pojačanja u Kataloniju. Guardia Civil uglavnom daje logističku podršku. Policija jeste umorna i vidi da gubi ovu trku. Nije sporno ni to da Španija može dovući još pojačanja kako bi "zavela red u regiji", ali je sada pitanje gde bi to sve vodilo.

[Bojan]

Iza ovog novog talasa nešto radikalnijih i odlučnijih protesta stoji organizacija koja se naziva "Tsunami Democratic" i uglavnom okuplja mlade. U poslednjih pet dana se pokazalo da su dosta dobro organizovani i da su svoju strategiju vrlo dobro sproveli. Izašao je i jedan intervju u "El Nacionalu" sa njima pa najbolje to da citiram

The Catalan protest platform Tsunami Democràtic - Democratic Tsunami - came into being to respond to the verdicts in the trial of Catalan pro-independence leaders. And like a huge wave, last Monday, a few hours after the announcement that nine people had received jail terms of 9 to 13 years, a protest was held in Barcelona's Plaça Catalunya. There the ground was prepared to go to Barcelona's airport, El Prat. At 1pm the action was announced and not only did it block entry to both major terminals, but it created gridlock on the airport access routes.

It was not an improvised action. There were months of preparation for it. There had to have been. Because only with preparation could those 1,200 vehicles have left Barcelona at midday for Madrid from different municipalities around Catalonia, which were recruited a week earlier to take part in one of the day's secondary actions, a "slow drive" to create congestion on the accesses to Madrid-Barjas airport. And only with preparation were the posters which Barcelona protesters carried ready - with the slogan "Everyone to the airport".

The Tsunami is not improvised. It is carefully prepared and thought about, with all the necessary security measures so that the actions carried out have a surprise factor, an impact factor, a guarantee of achieving their objectives and the appropriate security measures for those who organize the logistics, a task which obviously can't happen by itself. In the age of the Internet, everything is easier, but also more unsafe if the appropriate measures are not taken.

The waves of the Democratic Tsunami will break upon us in a programmed way. Meanwhile, now, a Tsunami representive speaks with El Nacional to help us contextualize the movement, its actions and its objectives. This is an interview with a movement which, right now, is unpredictable for many. An interview conducted via a secure digital system to preserve the identity and integrity of the Democratic Tsunami logistics aparatus.

Why the term "tsunami"? Where did it come from?
For many reasons. Because it is understood in many languages, because it is forceful, because you can even use it to make jokes. It's easy to promote and remember.

What are the objectives of the Democratic Tsunami?
Tsunami has repeated its goals in all its statements and actions. There are three key lines: the exercise and recognition of the right to self-determination; freedom for the prisoners, exiles and those suffering reprisals by the state; and full exercise of fundamental rights. With a starting premise that is demanded of the state: Spain, sit down and dialogue.

Many people are wondering these days who is behind Democratic Tsunami. And people have even pointed at meetings of leaders of political parties with Carles Puigdemont as an ideologist of the movement. Without trying to make you reveal who directs the movement, can you say whether behind the Democratic Tsunami, are the people? Is it a movement like the one that made possible the 1st October referendum? A chain of people in collusion?
Yes. Tsunami is a horizontal and variable network. With members in several countries. It has no leaders because it is not structured in this way (it's not effective). It works dynamically in order to define and achieve specific actions.

Spanish interior minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska has said that Democratic Tsunami is under investigation. Is this seen with concern or was it more of a predictable factor for the organization?
The minister has claimed that "in the end we'll know who is behind Tsunami". The answer is that behind the Tsunami there are the same people that there are in front of it. Talking about "people behind it" is already a mental framework that implies a certain criminalization of people joining in association. We ask ourselves if they are also investigating the rest of the social protest movements. Perhaps the minister should explain if they are also investigating who "is behind" the feminist movement that organizes strikes. Or who is behind Fridays for Future. Or any movement that wants to change how things are. If so, that is very worrying and Spaniards have a serious problem.

Have the arrests on September 23rd, of nine CDR activists accused of terrorism, and their subsequent jailing, caused any change in your plans?
No.

Did you expect the police response that occurred to the protest at the airport?
Tsunami has already condemned the use of rubber bullets by the police. We are a non-violent campaign at all times. The police actions against non-violence have already been surprising for months.

And the response of people these days to the protests and subsequent moments of tension when there have been police charges?
It is not Tsunami's intention to become a new element offering opinions on the news.

Is there a connection between the Democratic Tsunami and the protests going on these days?
That we are in the same society. That maybe a lot of people who went to the airport were also in the streets of Catalonia. Or the Marches for Freedom. Or are there to stop housing evictions. Or at feminist protests or involved with climate action.

Democratic Tsunami's claim is that it is responding to the court sentences, but is it also reacting to the political phase we are going through in Catalonia, the political blockage of Spain and the position of the government of Catalonia?
Tsunami is not just a response to the court sentences. It has its own agenda, as has been explained in the press releases and summarized above.

The Democratic Tsunami app has left everyone disoriented. Those who say they are investigating you and those who try to get into it by any means possible and have been looking for QR codes for days. Is this a deliberate situation as well?
The app is designed to enable new forms of protest. And at the same time to enlarge a more trusted network. Having to search for a QR code is an example. You get it from people in your trusted circle. It creates a network in a dual way: on the app and on the street.

And now what? What will the next wave of the Tsunami be?
The next action will be the one that best fulfills the goals set out at the moment it occurs.

 

 

 

[Bojan]

Naravno i druge, već poznate organizacije poput Omniuma učestvuju na nekom drugom planu. Obezbeđena je pravna, ali i dodatna medicinska logistika. Postoji grupa Sanitaris x Republic koju čine medicinski radnici koji prate demonstracije, pružaju pomoć i izveštavaju o povređenima.

 

Političari uglavnom stoje po strani. Predsednik Generalitata Tora se našao pod pritiskom da se jasno oglasi o ovim zbivanjima. Sančez ga je prozvao da osudi nasilje, što je ovaj i učinio. Mnogi i sa katalonske strane zameraju što ne čini nešto odlučnije, ali je vrlo lako moguće da će se političari čuvati nekih ekstremnijih istrčavanja. Doduše sam Tora je pre neki dan, na sednici Generalitata predložio novi referendum, što je naišlo na mlaku reakciju kod kolega. Ali s obzirom na zamah koji su dobili ovi protesti sada se čini da je loptica kod Sančeza. Tora ga je danas direktno pozvao na razgovor, ali su mu iz kabineta rekli da je premijer zauzet.

 

Sančez očigledno nema ništa novo da doda. Jedino što je uputio su nove pretnje. Njegov takozvani "progresivni" kabinet je prilično šarolik i problematičan a po dosadašnjem delanju se vidi da neće napraviti ništa novo, već da će možda ići na partnerstvo sa Ciudadanosima. Upravo kriza koja traje ovih nekoliko dana je pokazala da u vladi ima najblaže rečeno vrlo konzervativnih ljudi. Jedan od njih je svakako ministar policije Marlaska, čijih akcija se ne bi postideli ni Kasado ili Rivera. Marlaska je bivši sudija, koji je svojim radom navukao gnev Baskijaca. Od devet slučajeva u kojima je Evropski sud za ljudska prava osporio postupanje španskih sudova, vezano za policijsku torturu, šest slučajeva je vodio Marlaska.

 

Valjalo bi se sada, uoči opštih izbora, malo podsetiti i kako je izgledala ta Sančezova "progresivna" vlada (Al Jazeera - 19.6.2018). A svakako bi trebalo videti kakva im je platforma i šta su napravili. Jer Sančez je zapravo bez ikakve platforme došao na premijersko mesto. A onda je opet očekivao da mu Podemos da blanko podršku.

 

Podemos je u celoj ovoj situaciji još uvek prilično tih. Ali makar ne iznose pretnje, već pozivaju na razgovor. Ada Colau, obzirom u koaliciji sa PSC i 3 Valsova (Cs) poslanika, dala je prilično neutralnu izjavu, dok je Domenech (koji je predvodio listu Podemosa na katalonskim izborima) osudio policijsko nasilje i uzeo učešće u delu aktuelnih protesta. Independisti čak tvrde da im je sada podršku dalo i dosta onih koji nisu za nezavisnost.

[Bojan]

Sančez posetio Kataloniju. Zvanično je obišao povređene policajce. Sve ostale je ladno izignorisao. Razumljivo sve je to u sklopu predizborne kampanje. U bolnici Sant Pau ga je jedan deo zaposlenih izvikao, a naravno i doček na ulici je bio sličan. Sančez i njegovo okruženje vidno nervozni. U ostatku Španije se prenosi potpuno drugačija slika.

 

 

Sutra treba da se izvrši ta, od Sančezove vlade dugo najavljivana ekshumacija i premeštanje posmatnih ostataka generala Franka. Biće tu dosta ultradesničara, ali i Frankove familije. On svakako još uživa veliku popularnost tamo, a ne verujem i da će zapadni mediji baš preterano da se zgražavaju, pošto je Franko oduvek uspevao da bude na beloj listi Britanaca a kasnije i Amera.

[Budja]

Sančez je out a pigopevac Kasado in. Neke ankete kažu Vox treći, Cs još malo pa se "bore za cenzus". 

 

To je tako kad Sančez i Rivers driblaju oko svoje ose i ja kraju će obojica da izvise.

[hazard]

Hipstersko-salonskolevičarsko-bogataški separatizam

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-catalans-protest-for-secession-a-division-widens-at-home-11572269431?reflink=share_mobilewebshare

 

Quote

Ciutat Meridiana, a maze of 1960s tower blocks on the northern edge of Barcelona, is the city’s poorest neighborhood. It is also where pro-independence parties tend to perform the worst, winning just 17% of the vote in the last local elections.

 

The neighborhood of roughly 10,000 inhabitants, built to house factory workers who migrated from poorer parts of Spain in the 1960s, remains among Catalonia’s most marginalized. Residents have little sympathy for the pro-independence protesters, who are mostly young, educated and middle-class.

 

The hip central neighborhood of Gràcia is a different story. The district’s low-rise buildings and leafy squares are dotted with art galleries, vegan restaurants and vinyl record stores. It is also a bedrock of the pro-separatist movement, with starred Catalan flags draped over the balconies of almost every building.

 

Many people from Gràcia joined a mass rally of over half a million on Oct. 18 to protest against the court verdict. Around 350,000 people attended a pro-independence march in Barcelona on Saturday—and roughly 80,000 joined a rival anti-secession demonstration on Sunday, according to local authorities.

 

Street clashes between protesters and riot police have become commonplace, with protesters hurling stones and setting garbage bins on fire. Police have responded with tear gas and water cannon.

 

Marc Méndez, a 29-year-old architect who lives and works in Gràcia, doesn’t like the violence. But he doesn’t condemn it either.

 

“Violence is useful to make your voice heard,” said Mr. Méndez, who had just finished a shift volunteering at a pro-independence community center and food cooperative that sells locally sourced fruit and vegetables.

 

The independence movement is mobilizing “to show that the Spanish state is suppressing our freedoms, our right to free expression and even our right to demonstrate,” he said.

 

In contrast to many other political backlashes against the status quo in Europe and beyond, in Catalonia it is mostly the educated elites who are cheering nationalist insurgents—while working-class voters and pensioners are the most likely to be skeptical about them.

 

A survey by Catalonia’s pro-independence regional government in July found only 44% of Catalans support independence from Spain, while 48.3% oppose it.

 

Support for independence is highest among people under the age of 25, declines with age and is lowest among those over 65. It is also more popular with the middle classes than it is among those who earn less than €1,200, about $1,300.

 

Many Catalans also want their region, one of Spain’s wealthiest, to keep more of its own tax revenues. Left-leaning separatists like Genís Salvatella, a 27-year-old fine-arts student, also see an independent Catalonia as a way to promote a progressive social agenda that spends more on affordable housing, health care and universities.

 

“A state as big as Spain is hard to change. With a smaller nation, it will be easier,” said Mr. Salvatella, who lives and works in Gràcia and has participated in protests almost daily.

 

Jaume Piqué, a longtime resident of Gràcia, says the jailing of Catalan politicians strengthened his conviction that Catalonia is better off on its own.

 

“I don’t feel Spanish anymore. I feel Catalan,” says Mr. Piqué, 51, who owns a streetwear store in Gràcia called Hackney, named after one of London’s trendiest neighborhoods.

 

“It’s a fascist government,” he says of the national authorities in Madrid.

 

It is a sentiment that many Catalans who opposed independence are quick to dismiss. “They have no idea what fascism really is,” says Ms. Fernández, playing ball with her four-year-old grandson in a space between tower blocks.

 

In Ciutat Meridiana, residents are indifferent, if not outright hostile, to the protesters’ concerns. “We have other things to worry about here,” says Filiberto Bravo, a 67-year-old retired textile worker who heads Ciutat Meridiana’s neighborhood association. “From our point of view, the independence movement is a distraction” from problems such as unemployment and home repossessions, he says.

 

The neighborhood is still reeling from the post-2008 financial crisis, and unemployment blights the area. Hundreds of homes have been seized by banks because people couldn’t make their mortgage payments, and around 250 families are squatting in homes they were evicted from, Mr. Bravo says.

 

Political uncertainty sparked by the push for independence has added to economic distress. The Catalan economy helped drive Spain’s recovery and grew above the country’s average between 2014 and 2017.

 

But since the 2017 referendum, Catalonia’s economy has grown at a slower pace than Spain’s overall, hurt by a steep drop in foreign investment.

 

Esperanza Sequiel moved to Ciutat Meridiana in the 1960s from Spain’s relatively poor southern region of Andalusia and worked as a domestic helper for wealthy Catalans for most of her life. Now retired, she feels betrayed by the independence-supporting middle class.

 

“They have always lived as part of Spain. They have leached from Spain, and now they want to create their own country?” asks Ms. Sequiel, now 78. If Catalonia becomes an independent state, she says: “I would go. I would not stay here.”

 

[Kampokei]

Ovo sa anketama nije nesto pouzdano, jer varira iz meseca u mesec. Koliko u julu su indepes imali prednost. Možda je i do samplinga. Čini mi se da bi na referendumu bio neki Brexit rezultat, pritom ne znam u kom smeru.

 

Katalonski nacionalizam i jeste malo elitistički projekat, i verovatno postoji pozitivna korelacija sa nivoom obrazovanja, ali nisam siguran da je velika. U unutrašnjosti, u okolini Girone i Lleide ima mnogo radnika i poljoprivrednika koju su za nezavisnost, a među poslovnom elitom u Barseloni jako puno onih koji su za makar nekakvu Španiju. Na kraju, imamo ono što ja po crnogorskoj braći zovem Šoć sindrom, a to je da podela neretko posred porodica, domaćinstava. Moja poznanica je iz gorepomenute Gracije, vrlo katalonska porodica i svi su za nezavisnot, osim nje, koja je baš protiv.

[Filozof manijak]

Meni je zaniljiva ideja indipendista da će se odvajanjemn od Španije promeniti modus operandi vladajuće političke elite.

Još ako država Španija ovuče svoje fabrike i privredu iz Katalonije, otiće i strani investitori, a da ne pričamo hipotetičko o tome da će ući u EU ono kao nikad,

Posle će se češati kao Englezi u postreferendumskom periodu  Brexita

 

[hazard]

1 hour ago, Kampokei said:

Ovo sa anketama nije nesto pouzdano, jer varira iz meseca u mesec. Koliko u julu su indepes imali prednost. Možda je i do samplinga. Čini mi se da bi na referendumu bio neki Brexit rezultat, pritom ne znam u kom smeru.

 

 

Ne znam za ankete ali ostaje činjenica (koliko ja znam) da na nijednim regionalnim izborima separatističke stranke nisu prešle 50%.

[Kampokei]

Vecina za nezavisnost, i ako postoji, je novijeg datuma i eventualno se mogla jedino ostvariti na izborima 2017. Kako to biva u tim pricama o nezavisnosti, nije to uvek linearan proces, nego se desi neki nagli kick koji ideji nezavisnosti da krila (kao sto se i u CG desio negde oko 2000.). Pre 2012, a pogotovo pre krize 2008, tesko da je podrska nezavisnosti prelazila 35%. Sto se izbora 2017 tice, tu su nezavisnjaci na nekih 48%, ali imas grupu Ade Colau koja je osvojila 7,5%. Ta stranka  se o tom pitanju nerado ocituje, a medju glasacima ce se sigurno podkrasti pokoji simpatizer nezavisnosti. Mislim da bi na referendumu pobedila Spanija, ali vise kao rezultat uterivanja straha i ucenjivanja (nema EU, povlacimo firme, skapacete od gladi). U nekoj vise fer atmosferi, kakva je ako se dobro secam bio skotski referendum, uopste ne bih iskljucio pobedu indepesa.

 

A opet, neka ideja federalne ili multinacionalne Spanije bi mogla da na duze staze smiri i Katalonce i Baske. Ali spanski nacionalizam je jak, antipatija prema regionalnim identitetima jos jaca, i ne verujem da je tako nesto realno u skoroj buducnosti.