Španija i Katalonija

[Budja]

3 hours ago, Bojan said:

Ada Kolau i pored uslovnog poraza od Maragalla (ERC) ostaje na mestu gradonačelnice Barselone. Većinu je napravila sa 8 odbornika socijalista i 3 Valsova nezavisna (iza koga je stajao Cs).

 

Lista ERC koju je predvodio Ernest Maragall osvojila je tek nešto malo više glasova od liste Ade Kolau. Obe liste osvojile su po 10 odbornika, ali dosadašnja praksa je nalagala da kandidat koji je predvodio listu sa najviše osvojenih glasova zauzme mesto gradonačelnika. Kolau u ovom slučaju jeste zaista uslovni gubitnik, jer je ipak uspela da osvoji više glasova nego što su joj ankete davale uoči izbora.

 

Inače, Ernest Maragall je brat Pasquala Maragalla, bivšeg predsednika Generalitata iz redova PSC. Socijalisti su dali dva predsednika Katalonije između 2003 i 2010, uz podršku ERC. Ernest Maragall je takođe bio član socijalista, ali ih je napustio posle krize oko katalonskog statuta, kada se prekinula i saradnja između PSC i ERC.

 

Ada Colau jeste ostala na celu Barselone, alibih rekao da je njen politicki projekat mrtav, i da ce se u sledecoj iteraciji prikljuciti socijalistima.

[eumeswil]

 

[Filozof manijak]

Neki ljubitelj teorija zavere bi rekao da je SEKA 2008. veštački izazvana zbog onih top 1% 

[Budja]

Dakle, opet izbori u novembru.

 

Sancez je, ipak, debil koji je imao srece.

 

U nameri da bude centrista, raspisao izbore da bi, umesto sa Podemos, usao u koaliciju sa Cs a imao je cistu situaciju.

Najverovatniji rezultat: Vlada PP.

 

Cs su po anketama na mizernih 10-11%, a PP stize socijaliste.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Budja

[Bojan]

Sančez pokušava da svali krivicu na Podemos, jer ovi nisu prihvatili da socijalisti i dalje vode manjinsku vladu. To je potpuno besmisleno. Ako si relativni pobednik izbora obično pozoveš nekoga da ti bude partner u vladi pa ako ovaj odbija ili postavi neke preterane uslove onda eventualno izađeš sa tim opravdanjem u javnost. A ovo kao - nećemo da vas zovemo da budete deo vlade, ali očekujemo da podržite vladu koju sastavimo.

 

Mada, tu je i jedna druga stvar u pitanju. Sančez ne bi imao dovoljno poslanika da podrže vladu čak i ukoliko bi okupio Podemos, baskijske partije i još neke regionalne predstavnike, a bez katalonskih independista. Opet, ako bi sa njima ulazio u koaliciju vlada bi bila vrlo nestabilna i izložena. Uz to ovih dana se očekuje i presuda zatvorenim katalosnkim političarima i aktivistima, u vezi sa referendumskim zbivanjima od pre dve godine. S obzirom da su oni već skoro dve godine u preventivnom pritvoru očekuje se da će i presuda biti osuđujuća. Trebalo bi da otpadnu optužbe za pobunu, ali svakako bi mogli da budu osuđeni na duži zatvor (5-7 godina). Posle te presude bi španski sudovi bi mogli da obnove zahteve za izručenje koji se odnose na ove koji su u egzilu. Sančez niti želi, a moguće da ne bi ni mogao tu stvar da odvede u nekom drugom pravcu pa bi to svakako predstavljalo veliki jaz između dve grupacije koje bi trebalo da sede u istoj vladi.

 

Koliko god sve deluje mirno stvari u Kataloniji i dalje tinjaju. Pre nekih mesec dana u spektakularnoj akciji u kojoj je učestvovalo 500 pripadnika Guardia Civil, uhapšeno je 7 pripadnika organizacije CDR. Terete ih ni manje ni više nego za terorizam. Navodno su pronadjeni elementi za izradu eksplozivnih naprava. Ovo i ako je tačno i ako nije tačno svakako nije dobro.

[Mark Rothko]

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Vojna parada u Madridu povodom nacionalnog praznika obeležena je "sudarom" padobranca sa banderom umesto sletenja ispred kralja kojem je trebalo svečano da preda špansku zastavu.

Publika na licu mesta i preko televizije pratila je u subotu uživo vojnu paradu. Padobranac kojem se padobran zakačio za banderu ostao je da visi umesto da sleti na tribinu ispred kralja Felipea Šestog, njegove supruge Leticije i njihove ćerke.

 

Kraljevska porodica je u znak podrške padobrancu počela da mu aplaudira. Vojnik je potom ispustio veliku zastavu Kraljevine Španije kako bi na vreme bila podignuta u znak obeležavanja dolaska Kristofora Kolumba u Ameriku 1492. godine.

 

Špansko Ministarstvo odbrane saopštilo je kasnije da je vojnik iskusan padobranac sa oko 600 skokova i da nije povređen prilikom sletanja.

 

 

 

[Kampokei]

Ozbilje kazne za lidere "procesa". Junqueras 13 godina. Bas me zanima sta bi srezali Puigdemontu.

 

 

[vememah]

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Reaction to Spain's sentencing of Catalan separatist leaders

 

MADRID (Reuters) - Spain’s Supreme Court on Monday sentenced nine Catalan separatist leaders to between nine and 13 years in prison for sedition over their role in the region’s failed bid for independence in 2017.

The three other defendants in the landmark ruling over a banned referendum and short-lived independence declaration were found guilty only of disobedience and not sentenced to prison.

Here are the main reactions:

CARLES PUIGDEMONT, FORMER HEAD OF CATALONIA’S REGIONAL GOVERNMENT:

“100 years in prison in total. An atrocity. Now more than ever ... It is time to react like never before. For the future of our sons and daughters. For democracy. For Europe. For Catalonia.”

ORIOL JUNQUERAS, FORMER DEPUTY LEADER OF THE CATALAN REGIONAL GOVERNMENT, SENTENCED TO 13 YEARS IN PRISON

“With this ruling, they want to destroy lives, behead parties and its leaders, stop and end a political and democratic movement and silence a whole people that wants to express in the ballot box. Democracy in Spain today has fallen and its powers act with revenge because they do not understand justice, politics or democratic processes”

JOSE LUIS ABALOS, TOP RANKING OFFICIAL FROM SPAIN’S RULING SOCIALISTS

“The sentence must be carried out and complied with,” the acting public works minister told public broadcaster TVE. “In Catalonia, there is a need for clear and responsible leadership on behalf of separatists.”

PABLO IGLESIAS, LEADER OF FAR-LEFT UNIDAS PODEMOS PARTY:

“With regard to the sentence, it is clear that there is consensus in the court that there was no violence, something that was evident to everyone, including the greatest adversaries of independence,” he wrote on Twitter.

He added: “But beyond the strictly legal debates, this sentence will go down in the history of Spain as a symbol of how not to deal with political conflicts in a democracy.”

PABLO CASADO, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION PEOPLE’S PARTY:

“Pedro Sanchez must affirm today that he will not pardon those convicted ... We will be at the side of the government to preserve public order and to avoid violent attitudes in the streets.”

ROGER TORRENT, HEAD OF THE CATALAN REGIONAL PARLIAMENT:
“Today we are all convicted, not just 12 people. This sentence is an attack on democracy and the rights of all citizens. They imprison the speaker of parliament, the vice-president, the government councillors and civil society leaders, but also our freedoms,” he said on Twitter.

“We will turn sadness into energy. Without violence, we defend fundamental rights and freedoms. As we have always done, we will find the strength and intelligence necessary to resist the worst attacks and build scenarios of future and hope.”

RAUL ROMEVA, CATALONIA’S FORMER FOREIGN AFFAIRS HEAD, SENTENCED TO 12 YEARS IN PRISON:

“No sentence will change the political aspirations of millions of citizens, neither this sentence nor those to come.”

JOSEP RULL, FORMER REGIONAL GOVERNMENT COUNCILLOR, SENTENCED TO 10 YEARS AND SIX MONTHS IN PRISON:

“If they had judged us on the facts, they would have acquitted us. Because they have judged ideas, they have condemned us. Condemning us, they have condemned the 2.5 million Catalans who voted on October 1 in one of the most extraordinary exercises of democracy that Europe has seen in the 21st century.”

ASSEMBLEA NACIONAL CATALANA, GRASSROOTS PRO-INDEPENDENCE GROUP:

“Faced with a sentence that convicts the exercise of fundamental rights, we respond as a people! Stop, protest, take to the streets,” the organisation wrote on Twitter. “Against the sentence, independence!”

COMMITTEES FOR THE DEFENCE OF THE REPUBLIC (CDR), A GRASSROOTS SEPARATIST MOVEMENT:

“It is time to rise up against the authoritarian fascism of the Spanish state and its accomplices. It is time for the #PopularRevolt. Let us respond with disobedience, popular power and Republic!”

PERE ARAGONES, NATIONAL COORDINATOR OF POLITICAL PARTY CATALONIA’S REPUBLICAN LEFT:

“INJUSTICE. They have been to more than 99 years in prison, and we have all been sentenced. Democracy has died today in Spain, as (former Catalan parliament speaker) @ForcadellCarme says, let’s take care of ourselves. We will turn anger into strength, conviction and serenity,” he said on Twitter.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/spain-politics-catalonia-reaction/reaction-to-spains-sentencing-of-catalan-separatist-leaders-idUKKBN1WT15R?rpc=401&

Edited October 14, 2019 by vememah

[Bojan]

Previsoke su kazne svakako. Ali to je negde u rangu onoga što je tražio državni advokat. On ih jedini nije teretio za pobunu i pobuna je otpala. Tužilac je tražio mnogo veće kazne. Ovaj voxov privatni je tek tražio nešto sumanuto, između 50 i 70 godina.

 

Sad će naravno da vrše pritisak na Sančeza da ne organizuje neko pomilovanje. Verujem da neće smeti to da pokrene u skorije vreme, s obzirom koliko je uzdržan i oko nekih drugih stvari.

 

Talasi protesta u Kataloniji sigurno slede narednih dana. A najavljuju se i neke blokade, pre svega univerziteta.

[Kampokei]

Navodno 53 povredjenih na aerodromu u Barseloni, koji je jedan od epicentara danasnjih protesta. Otkazano 108 letova. Zasto i kako bas aerodrom, nije mi jos jasno.

[jms_uk]

1 hour ago, Kampokei said:

Navodno 53 povredjenih na aerodromu u Barseloni, koji je jedan od epicentara danasnjih protesta. Otkazano 108 letova. Zasto i kako bas aerodrom, nije mi jos jasno.

 

Zato sto je jak efekat.

[Kampokei]

Da, ima smisla, samo se ne secam da je ikada tamo bio protest, pa rekoh da nije bio neki konkretan povod za to. Gomila ljudi bila tamo. A tenzija povelika. Vidim snimak iz grada, zena vadi spansku zastavu i provocira vicuci: hodate po spanskoj zemlji. Onda se neki mladji tip, otima joj zastavu, a nju udari i baci na zemlju. 

 

 

[hazard]

Dobar tekst

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/15/catalonia-separatists-jailed-sedition-hubris

 

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Catalonia’s separatists were jailed for sedition, but brought down by hubris

Giles Tremlett

It could have been very different. But the 2017 declaration of independence threw away the campaign’s moral advantage

 

Some things are impossible. Catalan independence is currently one of them. The stiff jail sentences handed down to the leaders of the separatist campaign that peaked in 2017 with a banned referendum, police violence and a fudged declaration of independence make that clearer than ever.

 

There are huge practical obstacles to independence, starting with the many hurdles written into Spain’s constitution. Overcoming these requires massive support in Catalonia itself; but the separatist leaders who orchestrated a head-on collision with the law never had anything like that. The jail sentences are for sedition, but their real problem is hubris.

 

That was already obvious on the streets of Barcelona and elsewhere when a unilateral proclamation of independence in the Catalan parliament on 27 October 2017 changed exactly nothing. It was, indeed, the day that an otherwise peaceful and often remarkable separatist campaign derailed itself.

 

A decision by the separatist Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont, to flee the country only served to underline that. Now living in Belgium, he was not among those sentenced on Monday, though an international arrest warrant has now been issued.

 

The independence campaign embraced the tactics of civil disobedience, where people who deliberately flout the law know they may go to jail. This is often a key part of the process, since it provokes the outrage that brings change. The nine men and women sentenced to between nine and 13 years of prison have stuck honourably to that tradition. Puigdemont clearly has not.

 

Those now in jail will be hailed as martyrs to their cause and become an inspiration for future generations of separatists. In court, they were unrepentant. “I would do it all again,” said Jordi Cuixart, who received a nine-year sentence. As protesters reacted to the sentences by blockading Barcelona’s airport, it was not clear whether calls to avoid violence would be respected. After the events of 2017, the police response will be watched closely.

 

Yet the fury felt today by Catalan separatists is not shared in the rest of Spain, nor, more crucially, does it extend very far in the rest of Europe – where they had hoped to provoke a sudden flowering of sympathy. Their campaign, in other words, has failed. The only visible result is a divided Catalan society where explicit support for independence remains below 50%.

 

It could all have ended very differently. Separatists do best when, like the Brexiters who they sometimes resemble, they can claim to be victims of the status quo. In that sense, the police charges during the banned referendum of 1 October 2017 were a gift. The sight of helmeted, baton-wielding officers beating up peaceful voters played directly into their hands. The Spanish state looked, and behaved, like an ogre.

 

Separatism could have built on that. Instead, it threw its moral advantage away with the independence declaration.

 

The court sentences concentrate on the referendum and are harsher than expected, and some will argue about the definition of “sedition”, but there is no doubt that the law was deliberately broken. The Catalan parliament does not have the power to declare independence. Nor can it unilaterally call a binding referendum on the subject. In that sense, it is no different to, say, the Scottish parliament. When politicians break the law and cross lines set by the constitution, the courts tell them so. Just as Boris Johnson cannot arbitrarily suspend the Westminster parliament, so Puigdemont could not hold a referendum. And unlike Johnson (so far), his government ignored court rulings – and went ahead with the vote anyway.

 

Declaring independence ramped up the level of defiance. It was also dishonest, since it was based on a referendum in which only one side campaigned. “Remain in Spain” voters mostly boycotted the illegal vote and, inevitably, the “leave” side won. That is not a solid basis on which to announce an epoch-defining, existential change to the lives of all 7.6 million Catalans.

 

Spanish rightwingers are today gloating over the court’s sentencing. Yet they are part of the problem. The anti-Catalan rhetoric that has accompanied their periods in power has only served to boost separatism. And even the socialist left, which talks up the idea of a “pluri-national” Spain, has done little to make Spaniards in other parts of the country proud of the languages and cultures that coexist within it.

 

Paradoxically, an obvious solution is to hold a proper referendum. This would force Catalan voters to face reality. Just the idea of being expelled from the EU would probably be enough to secure a resounding victory for remain. So why won’t Spain do that? The country’s written constitution makes both a referendum and independence theoretically possible, in a process controlled from Madrid. In practical terms, however, it hands a blocking vote to 40% of the senate. Even when the left is in government, the right normally commands that. It will never permit a separate Catalonia.

 

Since independence is possible in theory, but currently impossible in practice, some separatists may conclude that only violence will achieve their aims. Police last month arrested a group that was allegedly planning to mark this decision with bomb attacks. That is the worst mistake separatists could make. At the first sight of bloodshed, support would likely shrink so far that their cause could take decades to recover.

 

Their only hope is to keep following the advice of the jailed regional MP and ex-president of the grassroots Catalan National Assembly, Jordi Sànchez. “Let’s express ourselves without fear and move forward, nonviolently, towards freedom,” he said. That is a very long journey.

 

[Kampokei]

Dobra galerija u El Paisu, Barselona veceras:

 

https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/10/15/album/1571152266_965287.html#foto_gal_1

[Bojan]

Sinoć još veći neredi u Barseloni. Na ulice su izašle i grupe ultradesničara, izrazito nasilno nastrojeni, koji su samo raspalili masu. Tvrdi se da je policija prilično blagonaklona prema njima. Bilo je dosta odvojenih incidenata u kojima su napadali proindependističke učesnike protesta. Vrlo je napeto jer ovako se samo raspaljuju ljudi koji su već na ivici strpljenja.

 

Bilo je i barikada i zapaljenih kontejnera. Ima dosta povređenih i uhapšenih. Ove proteste su organizovale neke nove organizacije koje okupljaju dosta mladih i odlučniji su. To je pre svih CDR, čijih su 7 članova uhapšeni pre mesec dana pod optužbom za terorizam. Tu je i organizacija koja se zove Tsunami demokratija.

 

Evo jednog dobrog osvrta na presude i zbivanja iza toga (Al Jazeera).

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Bojan
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