Толстый и тонкий

[mandingo]

sjajno. naravno da se radilo o crnom humoru.

 

najbolje je sto se mccabe uvredio za "huliganizam."

[Muwan]

Jbg, i Capone je pao na porezu a ne na onim mnogo ozbiljnijim stvarima. Ironija sudbine i nesavršenost demokratije.

[iDemo]

Jbg, i Capone je pao na porezu a ne na onim mnogo ozbiljnijim stvarima. Ironija sudbine i nesavršenost demokratije.

Sto bi rekli ovi pismeniji pravnici - nije to zbog isterivanja pravde nego zbog reshavanja sporova... I nesto u tom smislu.  

[Meazza]

Da ne ispadne da branim Zaza,ali ovo jeste dobar crni humor. Možda je moralno/politički nekorektan, ali je dobar štos.

 

+1

[Yoda]

S obzirom na ubistva nekoliko poznatih ljudi poslednjih godina i radikalizaciju odnosa sa Zapadom, Putinovom rezimu je ubistvo Nemcova dodatni teg. Strukture vlasti su vrlo nehomogene, podeljene i sa vrlo sukobljenim interesima i nije nemoguce da je neka od njih inicirala ubistvo ili ga nije sprecila. Takodje, u medijskom sukobu Zapada i Rusije, ovo ubistvo je za prvu stranu odlican argument da se Putin dodatno satanizuje.

 

Ubistvo pada u vreme kada podrska Putinu dostize istorijski maksimum (85%), pre svega zbog aneksije Krima (oko 95% podrske u Rusiji). Moguce je da ubistvo Nemcova oslabi podrsku Putinu, ali ne verujem da ce to biti ozbiljniji pad. Prozapadna ruska opozicija je isuvise povezana sa Zapadom, a mnogo manje ili nimalo  sa kljucnim prozapadnim elitama u vlasti, pre svega u privredi i ekonomiji sa kojima Putin i dalje balansira ka silovicima.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Yoda

[Budja]

Da se poserem po BBCiju koji tablodino kaci sliku Ane Durickaje na prvu stranu vesti.

[Yoda]

Dzek Metlok, poslednji ambasador SAD u SSSR (1987-1991), o ubistvu Nemcova:

 

I have received privately an analysis of the situation by an observer of the Russian scene who was in Moscow last week. I found the observations important and have been given permission to share them here.

[begin quotation]
 

I do not think Putin was behind this. The reason is that a murder in the center of Moscow literally at the walls of the Kremlin discredits him and the security apparatus. The Kremlin Walls and the Bekhlimishevskaya Tower frame the scene with St. Basil’s to the right. It is simply difficult to imagine a location that could include more symbols of the Russian state. It looks like a frame up. I can’t help remembering how in the 1990′s, one way to get an adversary to capitulate in a fight over a company was to show him his security had been breached. (This is one of the reasons that Yanukovich fled when he did–because he could no longer count on the loyalty of the people providing physical protection.) This may be unfair. After all, road and pedestrian traffic are not checked in the area. Everything is filmed and there are certainly many police nearby, but no one is going to stop you if you bring arms into the area and try to murder someone. How would they know? So it may be unfair, but that’s the way it’s going to be perceived–as a highly symbolic breach of security. It’s hard for me to imagine that there won’t be personnel changes over this.

 

This is a serious crisis for Putin in terms of how he will be perceived by the political and security elite (who never speak to the western press and whose views and fears are almost never reflected in the West) because it is symbolic of control. He needs this crime to be solved.

 

State television has been covering the events with a minimum of propaganda. They have been almost complimentary about Nemtsov’s role in Russian history. People all over the political spectrum are clearly shocked. I believe it is significant that a funeral march in the center of the city was allowed quite quickly–after all the trouble the authorities when to to relocate the opposition demonstration to the outskirts of Moscow (note to the Western Mass Media: opposition demonstrations in Moscow are still permitted, including those opposing the Ukraine War–does anyone remember the USSR?).

 

There’s no way to know who was behind this and we’ll probably never find out (polling shows that 90% of Russians feel that the people behind the murder will never be identified).

 

1) Conceivably Putin could be in a position analogous to that of Gorbachev, with hardliners pushing policies that he has to go along with when presented with the fact they’ve been done. This could relate to a desire to prosecute the Ukraine war more overtly and crack down more harshly on domestic dissent. I don’t think Putin wants to run a true dictatorship, but there may be people around who think that’s a viable alternative for the country (it isn’t), so it’s just possible this was done by a faction trying to get him to go along with a harder line. This is not a likely explanation–but it’s possible.

 

2) A slightly more likely scenario is that ultra nationalists (with crime links and some support from inside the state) went after Nemstov (and indirectly Putin) for many of the reasons mentioned in Scenario 1.

 

3) A third (somewhat less likely but quite possible) scenario is that the the Ukrainian far right went after Nemtsov in hopes Putin would get blamed, western arms and money would come faster, and political disintegration might start in Russia.

 

No matter what happens, Putin is going to get blamed. Because even if by some miracle they catch the perpetrators (how can they not given all the surveillance mechanisms in place and the fact that Nemtsov himself was presumably being watched closely?) many people will not believe the explanation.

 

The people who benefit most are those who: a) want to spook/crack down on the democratic opposition; b) worsen the relationship with the West and disrupt moves toward a truce in Ukraine; c) do political damage to Putin. He needs to watch his back.

 

[End of quotation]

 

 

 

 

http://jackmatlock.com/2015/03/is-nemtsov%E2%80%99s-murder-a-replay-of-kirov%E2%80%99s/

Edited March 2, 2015 by Yoda

[porucnik vasic]

Dzek Metlok, poslednji ambasador SAD u SSSR (1987-1991), o ubistvu Nemcova:

 

 

http://jackmatlock.com/2015/03/is-nemtsov%E2%80%99s-murder-a-replay-of-kirov%E2%80%99s/

Сад, не разуме он паралеле, Ћурувија, Ђинђић и тај рад. А онда има да ускочи тајни план обнове национал-бољшевичке империје и тај рад...

Ово са Зазом је свињарија. Повећа.

[Lord Protector]

Dzek Metlok, poslednji ambasador SAD u SSSR (1987-1991), o ubistvu Nemcova:

 

 

http://jackmatlock.com/2015/03/is-nemtsov%E2%80%99s-murder-a-replay-of-kirov%E2%80%99s/

 

Metlok je oštar kao žilet, odlična analiza

[Anduril]

Da se poserem po BBCiju koji tablodino kaci sliku Ane Durickaje na prvu stranu vesti.

 

Da, ovo je najvazniji detalj u celoj prici. Reci nam jos nesto o tome...

[Pantelija jr]

naravno da nije. aj objasni ti kako je ovo sve putler izveo, nisi odavno...

 

Edit - typo

Edited March 2, 2015 by Pantelija jr

[Skyhighatrist]

Nuklearnim strateškim bombarderima, zar već nije svima jasno?

[kapetanm]

Kao iskusan kgb-ovac je izveo da kgb izvrsi neuk atentat da zapad misli da je kgb a da svi kapiraju da nije, a u stvari jeste. Shvatate naravno, dokle to seze

[Budja]

Da, ovo je najvazniji detalj u celoj prici. Reci nam jos nesto o tome...

 

Naravno da nije najvazniji stoga je jos tuznije sto joj stavljaju sliku na prvu stranu, i to jos sliku iz nekog modnog ili slicnog magazina. Mislim, da je u pitanju zena od svojih cetrdesetak godina sasvim sam siguran da to ne bi uradili.

 

Koliko i BBC prenosi, ruska drzavna televizija se neobicno ponasa: miting je bio udarna vest. Atentat se ne minimizira, vec mu se daje prostor. Sad, tu su moguca svakojake spekulacije i teorije zasto je to tako:

a) onaj koji najglasnije place na sahrani je ubica;

b) nemamo sta da krijemo, otvoreni smo povodom toga, nemamo veze sa atentatom.

Ne znam kakav je bio tretman prethonih ubistava, pa da se uradi medijsko-politicka analiza, ali, opet, i trenutak je drugaciji pa nije jasno sta bi takva analiza donela.

[MancMellow]

stvar je realno prosta - moraju da pronadju ubicu. ako ga ne pronadju svi, ukljuciv i ruse, ce misliti jednu od dve stvari, ili obe

 

- ubila ga je država

 

- ubio ga je neko drugi, a ruska država ne ume da reši ni političko ubistvo koje se desi na (figurativno) 10 metara od Kremlja. 

 

i

Edited March 2, 2015 by MancMellow