Sirija

[Drug Chabor]

Istini za volju, USA mediji su tada uglavnom koristili termin "insurgents"

[Muwan]

Pa to da se napad desio na Asadovoj teritoriji jeste vazan detalj. Ne vidim da se to moze izbeci.

 

Ne znam kako to tačno funkcioniše u zemljama gde su četiri noge dobre a dve loše ali znam da u civilizovanom svetu, kada neko uzme i raznese prijemno odeljenje bolnice sve sa doktorima i pacijentima, onda se u naslovu jasno i glasno obaveštava javnost da je u pitanju teroristički napad. Ako u polju za naslov nema dovoljno mesta za reč "t e r o r i z a m" onda može bar da se izbegne kolektivno etiketiranje ubijenih kao Asadovaca. Jeste lokacija važan detalj, ali ne toliko važan da bi se čitav naslov vrteo oko nje i svi instant zaključci izvlačili iz nje a ne iz činjenice da su civili razneseni u paramparčad u bolnici i na pijaci. Naslov treba da podvuče žrtve, eventualno počinioce, a ne da na finjaka kategoriše ubijene civile kao legitimne mete koje kolektivno i sve sa bolnicama pripadaju nekakvoj asadovštini pa ih ne treba previše žaliti.

 

O lokacijama su mogli da tupe u samom tekstu do mile volje. Guardian, recimo, čak ni u tekstu nije tupio o "bastionima režima" već su napisali da su napadnuti gradovi koji do sada nisu videli ratne sukobe i važili su za relativno mirne oaze.

Edited May 24, 2016 by beowl

[Gandalf]

ovakvi naslovi i terminologija su manje-vise standard kad se radi o napadima na vise ciljeva, bez obzira o cijim sirijskim "uporistima" se radi. razlika je da su zrtve u ovom slucaju u gradovima pod kontrolom rezima, a Adamu Dzonsonu pravednicki gnev prema MSM spada u opis radnog mesta.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Gandalf

[Prospero]

Discerning Damage to a Crucial Syrian Air Base

May 24, 2016 | 09:00 GMT

 

(Stratfor)

 

In war, even the most advanced aircraft can be shot down, special operations forces can be ambushed, and well-defended airports and army bases can be shelled and weakened from afar by simple, indirect-fire weapons. Such was the case in an attack claimed by the Islamic State on a strategic loyalist air base in central Syria. Satellite imagery acquired by Stratfor in partnership with AllSource Analysis verifies that the T4 air base was severely damaged by an Islamic State artillery attack. In particular, four Russian Mi-24 attack helicopters appear to have been destroyed.

The T4 air base, one of the most important Syrian bases in the country, is located in Homs province near the city of Palmyra and near a strategic crossroads of routes that lead to Deir el-Zour, Raqqa, Damascus and other crucial areas. It houses two fixed-wing attack squadrons, one composed of Su-24 aircraft and the other of Su-22 aircraft. These aircraft have carried out ground-attack missions across Syria, including the operations that eventually forced Islamic State militants out of Palmyra. In addition, the Syrian air force maintains six L-39 trainer aircraft and a few Mi-8/17 transport helicopters at the base.

Moreover, Russian forces have deployed a contingent of attack helicopters to the T4 air base at least since March 2016, supporting the loyalist offensive to retake Palmyra that same month. Based on satellite imagery as well as video of the base, the Russian force consisted of approximately four Mi-24P gunships. So at least according to these open sources, no Syrian Mi-24 helicopters operated from the T4 air base in recent months.

In early May, the Islamic State launched an operation to capture the Shaer natural gas field northeast of the air base. After doing so, the group advanced south, seeking to cut off loyalist forces in Palmyra by severing a road that leads west from Palmyra, passes by the T4 air base, and continues toward Homs city. Though the Islamic State failed to cut off the road for any extended amount of time, it did move artillery within range of the base, which it subsequently shelled.

Late May 14, the Islamic State claimed that four Russian attack helicopters and 20 trucks loaded with ammunition were destroyed in the attack. Around the same time, loyalist forces reported that an accidental explosion had taken place in an ammunition storage area at the air base. Working with AllSource, Stratfor has discerned what occurred by looking at satellite imagery of the air base from that time period.

It is clear from the imagery that the northeastern part of the T4 air base, the section of the airport where helicopter use is concentrated, sustained considerable damage. Ordnance impact points are visible, especially around the structurally reinforced aircraft shelter and the cargo truck marshaling area. The imagery strongly suggests that the explosions that destroyed approximately 20 vehicles and four Russian attack helicopters were not accidental but were related to Islamic State artillery fire. In addition, a Syrian MiG-25 aircraft that was likely already out of commission appears to have been damaged.

The destruction of four Russian attack helicopters at the base is a stark reminder of the constant threat that Russia faces in its mission in Syria. The Russian contribution to the Syrian government has been notable in defending loyalist positions and driving back not only rebel but also jihadist forces in the Syrian conflict. But it has come with a cost. Even as Russia continues to rely on aviation and artillery power to support government troops, its forces are not outside harm's way.

 

 

 

pokupio i BBC

 

prilično precizan i uspešan napad za lokalne standarde

[Muwan]

Malo su se previše ispružili sa tim stacioniranjem u T4.

 

Opet terminologija iz snova: kada se prikazuje uništen sirijski avion kaže se korektno i pošteno Syrian aircraft hit. Kada se prikazuju ruski helikopteri kaže se Russians hit. Ne mogu ljudi da zadrže napad zadovoljstva i toplinu u intimnim delovima tela pa to ti je...

[Prospero]

upao si u neki medijski amok

 

 

 

 

...Russian Mi-24 attack helicopters... Russian forces ... the Russian force... Russian attack helicopters... four Russian attack helicopters... four Russian attack helicopters...

[Muwan]

Pričam o naslovu i podnaslovu koji imaju udarni značaj. U vreme najžešćih operacija američke koalicije u Iraku/Avganistanu uvek sam sa solidnom rezervom uzimao izvore koji su sipali naslove tipa Americans hit (što bukvalno izlazi na neko naslađivanje tipa Amerikanci dobili po tamburi) i veći kredibilitet davao potpisnicima koji umeju da barataju profesionalnim terminima poput: US forces suffer losses, US forces take casualties, US forces attacked, pa ajde može i US forces hit, ali svakako ne Americans onako generalno i sveobuhvatno).

[Krošek]

Ja se slazem generalno ali ne vidim u naslovu ili podnaslovu da pise americans hit lapsus, russians hit

Edited May 24, 2016 by Krošek

[Friend]

Pise kao naslov na slikama.

[Krošek]

to bih ja tretirao kao heding antrfilea koji, u kontrastu u odnosu na osnovni tekst koji je tehnikalisanje, baca posebno svetlo na cinjenicu da je to ruska vojska i ruski napor u siriji koji su pogodjeni i da je to relativno tezak gubitak za ruse, zbog znacajne kolicine unistenog materiel-a: "considerable losses on the russian side"

 

posto rusi dosad nisu imali ovako considerable losses u pogledu tehnike, mislim da je opravdano i potrebno istaci da su rusi, a ne neka apstraktna strana u ratu ti koji su pretrpeli udarac

[Muwan]

Iz npr. Russian forces ne bismo mogli da zaključimo da su u pitanju Rusi?

[Prospero]

inače, nije baš jasno šta se desilo, pošto ni akcident (ili interna sabotaža) nije isključen, evo par tvitova od onda:

 

 
Islamic World Update ‏@islamicworldupd May 14

@islamicworldupd Ammunition storage exploded in T4 airbase due to man error not related to #ISIS/#Daesh militants #Homs #Syria

 

Islamic World Update ‏@islamicworldupd

@islamicworldupd #ISIS/#Daesh claims 4 #RuAF helicopters & 20 trucks with ammo explode in T4 airbase cus' fire #Homs

 

[Muwan]

Pa ne znam koja to sabotaža može da izazove onako uredne tragove artiljerijske paljbe, lepo se vide na fotkama.

 

Heliše je možda neko minirao na pisti (mada je i to SF scenario) ali kod skladišta se lepo vidi trag propisne artiljerijske salve.

 

E, sad, isis nije baš čuven po svom artiljerijskom umeću i učinkovitosti tako da mi je to malkice čudno. Ali opet deluje realnije od sabotaže.

[vathra]

Heliše je možda neko minirao na pisti (mada je i to SF scenario) ali kod skladišta se lepo vidi trag propisne artiljerijske salve.

 

Где видиш траг?

 

[Muwan]

2x4 pravilno rasporedjena kratera kod depoa?