Fins fleet Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Po tome, svaki avion koji preleti preko bilo koje ambasade bilo koje drzave je legitimna meta za tu drzavu. Link to comment
Gandalf Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 jos samo da mi neko zaista pronadje taj intervju na sajtu AA. AA se javno ogradila od fabrikovanja intervjua sa doticnim. pritom ovo je staro vise od mesec dana i korisceno je samo na sajtovima koji naginju propagandi jedne strane. party pooper. Link to comment
Eraserhead Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 NATO survived Cold War, but downed Russian fighter provides biggest threat Washington (CNN)The cool, calm, clear thinking that kept the NATO alliance intact as it weathered the Cold War with the Soviet Union has been shattered. Decades of careful diplomacy and nail-biting inaction during the potentially world-annihilating nuclear arms race of the 1950s, 60s and 70s appears to have been sacrificed in a few brief seconds by Turkey. In those moments when Turkish Air Force jets shot down a Russian fighter plane Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin was also given a strategic goal: Destabilize and divide NATO. And more may have been sacrificed too. Any chance of a quick end to the war in Syria seems now to have gone up in smoke. Putin has been trying to undermine the unity of NATO for years. Whether it's been Russian planes flying in Baltic airspace, aging bombers buzzing the coast of Britain, the destabilization of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, he has needled NATO, testing its resolve and probing for division. Back then NATO -- a military alliance formed after World War II by countries in North America and Western Europe that now has 28 member states committed to defending each other -- stood firmly as one. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that was still the case Tuesday after an emergency meeting arranged for Turkey to tell its allies what had happened. "As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally, Turkey," he said. Yet already, German and Czech officials are expressing surprise at Turkey's action -- taken after the Russian plane was inside Turkish airspace for 30 seconds or less, according to U.S. calculations. President Barack Obama said Turkey had a right to defend its airspace and added that he expected to speak to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in the coming days to learn more. Opportunity lost? Both Obama and his White House guest, French President Francois Hollande, urged Russia to strike at ISIS targets in Syria, in concert with their coalition rather than going it alone. Perhaps that seemed more possible this week, with both France and Russia mourning losses from ISIS terror and when they were collectively trading their national tragedies for compromises to find a solution in Syria. Hollande lost 130 people to ISIS in the Paris attacks this month and Putin 224 to terrorist bombers who blew up a Russian passenger jet a few weeks earlier. So both have a moral authority to galvanize collective action. It was a rare moment in international diplomacy and some diplomats were beginning to think Russia's policy on Syria and its support for Bashar al-Assad could be changed. Not quickly, or easily, but the chance was there. And Erdogan has squandered it. Gain for Putin The downing of the Russian jet smacks of what Erdogan's enemies accuse him of -- of aspirations to resurrect the Ottoman Empire -- and leaves him open to claims he is too soft on radical Islamists. Putin has gone further -- saying that Erdogan, the head of state of a NATO member, is siding with the terrorists. And that's why -- at first analysis -- this looks like a disaster, beyond the loss of life of one pilot and a would-be rescuer. It may also be a gain for Putin. For all those years he has was trying to undermine NATO unity, Erdogan's hasty move has handed it to him on a plate. We may learn what led up to the strike, but the deed is done. Erdogan's NATO partners can now only look at him as a loose cannon, an unstable element in a very combustible situation. Not a steady partner capable of calm nerve that saw the alliance last the Cold War. Erdogan has thrown the whole card table in the air. And elsewhere, ISIS watches. Link to comment
Gandalf Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Daj bre Gandalfe, prelet od sedamnaest sekundi ne lici na rusko kurcenje. Tako bi se mozda kurcili svajcarci pre dva dana: Turkey seeks U.N. Security Council meeting on Turkmens in Syria Turkey has called for a U.N. Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighboring Syria, sources in the prime minister's office said, days after Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest against the bombing of their villages. dan nakon toga (tj. juce) su ruski avioni uleteli u turski vazdusni prostor, uprkos ranijim upozorenjima da ce svaki naredni avion biti oboren. reklo bi se da je neko tu zeleo da uputi "i sta nam mozete?" poruku. a mozda je i slucajnost, ruski piloti se bas juce zaneli uzivajuci u pejzazima severne Sirije. Edited November 25, 2015 by Gandalf Link to comment
Takeshi Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 juce su ruski avioni uleteli u turski vazdusni prostor, uprkos ranijim upozorenjima da ce svaki naredni avion biti oboren. reklo bi se da je neko tu zeleo da uputi "i sta nam mozete?" poruku. ocekujes da ce sada ruski napadi na turkmene prestati? ovo je turski pokusaj da se ubace u medijsku igru oko sirije, sa vrlo neizvesnim posledicama. Link to comment
Gandalf Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 ocekujes da ce sada ruski napadi na turkmene prestati? irelevantno. Link to comment
gervasius twinkleminkleson Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Izvinjavam se, ali imam pitanje - sta biste preporucili da se procita [ili pogleda, poslusa, sta god] za upoznavanje sa sirijskim konfliktom? Link to comment
wall Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) pre dva dana: Turkey seeks U.N. Security Council meeting on Turkmens in Syria Turkey has called for a U.N. Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighboring Syria, sources in the prime minister's office said, days after Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest against the bombing of their villages. dan nakon toga (tj. juce) su ruski avioni uleteli u turski vazdusni prostor, uprkos ranijim upozorenjima da ce svaki naredni avion biti oboren. reklo bi se da je neko tu zeleo da uputi "i sta nam mozete?" poruku. a mozda je i slucajnost, ruski piloti se bas juce zaneli uzivajuci u pejzazima severne Sirije. Druga strana kaže da nije.Imaš neki razlog da jednima veruješ a ovima ne? Edited November 25, 2015 by wall Link to comment
Gandalf Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Druga strana kaže da nije. Imaš neki razlog da jednima veruješ a ovima ne? ne verujem nikome. sta nije? Link to comment
wall Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 ne verujem nikome. sta nije?Pa to.Pišeš: "dan nakon toga (tj. juce) su ruski avioni uleteli u turski vazdusni prostor" Pa... Link to comment
Voyager Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Po tome, svaki avion koji preleti preko bilo koje ambasade bilo koje drzave je legitimna meta za tu drzavu. http://www.newsweek.rs/svet/63354-erdogan-pre-tri-godine-kratko-narusavanje-vazdusnog-prostora-ne-sme-biti-izgovor-za-napad.html Link to comment
Gandalf Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Pa to. Pišeš: "dan nakon toga (tj. juce) su ruski avioni uleteli u turski vazdusni prostor" Pa... Rusi providno lazu. valjda su pozurili, pa dve mape koje su predstavili pokazuju dve razlicite rute aviona. druga se uklapa sa onim sto tvrde Turci. okamova ostrica. Edited November 25, 2015 by Gandalf Link to comment
Bambula Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Da, takva su im RoE i Rusima je to bilo poznato ali mislim da su sasvim ispravno rezonovali da niko ne bi bio lud da stvarno puca zbog tako beznačajnog narušavanja VaP. Puca se kada ti letelica predstavlja jasnu i neposrednu pretnju, ovo legalističko hvatanje na izbočini širine dva kilometra (ako i toliko) samo čini celu ujdurmu još ciničnijom i providnijom. Ne mora da predstavlja pretnju dovoljno je da se ogluši o upozorenja ili da odbije indetifikaciju. Turci su čekali dežurna para je već bila u rejonu i samo čekala da naiđu.Izgleda je ovakav nalet bio standardan za Ruse pa su ih sačekali kao na vežbi. Link to comment
Muwan Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) dan nakon toga (tj. juce) su ruski avioni uleteli u turski vazdusni prostor, uprkos ranijim upozorenjima da ce svaki naredni avion biti oboren. reklo bi se da je neko tu zeleo da uputi "i sta nam mozete?" poruku. a mozda je i slucajnost, ruski piloti se bas juce zaneli uzivajuci u pejzazima severne Sirije. Još jednom, Rusi su sasvim ispravno rezonovali da se ta upozorenja odnose na ozbiljne povrede vazdušnog prostora sa ozbiljno provokatorskim ili neprijateljskim namerama. Ono što je ruski avion uradio bilo je sve samo ne ozbiljna povreda VaP, za tako nešto se jednostavno ne lansira raketa. Turska radarska mapa u istoj meri u kojoj pokazuje rusko "qrčenje" pokazuje i rusku nameru da ispoštuje turski VaP koliko god je to moguće - zavisi iz kog ugla posmatraš. A ovi ih u zasedi čekaju da im za 1km zakače najisturenije slepo crevo u VaP pa da raspale u istoj sekundi. Mislim da druge članice NATO tu bolest mozga posmatraju malo manje iz legalističkog ugla a malo više iz "šta nam bi da ove ludake ikada primimo u članstvo" vajkanja. To sa čačkanjima VaP je igra koja se igra hladnih nerava i koju treba znati igrati a prosečan babun u teranju ima više dara za tu igru nego prosečno mudo iz MB. Edited November 25, 2015 by beowl Link to comment
Gandalf Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Izvinjavam se, ali imam pitanje - sta biste preporucili da se procita [ili pogleda, poslusa, sta god] za upoznavanje sa sirijskim konfliktom? podkasti. nadji epizode o Siriji. jihadology, turkeywonk, warontherocks, bellingcat. Link to comment
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