slobodan pristup naoružanju

[Utvara]

Još neki dodaci:Забрањено је ношење оружја без посебне дозволе. Дозволу за ношење оружја могу добити грађани који у поступку докажу да за то постоје изузетно оправдани разлози безбедности. Оружје се може преносити без посебне дозволе, уколико је расклопљено и одвојено од муниције.Одобрење за набављање оружја могу добити грађани који су пунолетни, пословно способни, обучени за руковање оружјем, који нису осуђивани за кривична дела са елементом насиља, нити се против њих води кривични поступак по службеној дужности, нису кажњавани за прекршаје из Закона о оружју и муницији и Закона о јавном реду и миру, нити се против њих води поступак за ове прекршаје. Осим тога, утврђује се да ли би издавањем одобрења била угрожена сигурност других људи, односно јавни ред и мир.

Inace dozvola za drzanje i dozvola za nosenje kao sto pretpostavljas su dve sasvim razlicite stavke. Ovu za nosenje ces najverovatnije tesko dobiti jer da bi je posedovao zivot ti mora biti u opasnosti i vremenski je ogranicena na period u kome ta opasnost postoji. Posto kazes da si civil citaj samo ako imas debelu vezu docices do nje.

[cedo]

Fakti ...Pogledajte boj samoubistava, kada je oruzhje nadohvat ruke ... brinem za andurila i mandinga ... momci, zezam se naravno

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated): 

 Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident) 

USA (2001)       3.98  5.92  0.36 
Italy (1997)   0.81  1.1  0.07 
Switzerland (1998) 0.50  5.8     0.10 
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0  0.04 
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10 
Australia (2001)  0.24  1.34  0.10 
France (2001) 0.21 3.4  0.49 
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2  0.03 
Scotland (2002)  0.06  0.2 0.02 
Japan (2002)  0.02 0.04 0 

Data taken from Cukier and Sidel (2006) The Global Gun Epidemic. Praeger Security International.  Westport.

Klinton ... Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

Edited January 31, 2011 by cedo

[Anduril]

Fakti ...Pogledajte boj samoubistava, kada je oruzhje nadohvat ruke ... brinem za andurila i mandinga ... momci, zezam se naravno

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated): 

 Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident) 

USA (2001)       3.98  5.92  0.36 
Italy (1997)   0.81  1.1  0.07 
Switzerland (1998) 0.50  5.8     0.10 
Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0  0.04 
Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10 
Australia (2001)  0.24  1.34  0.10 
France (2001) 0.21 3.4  0.49 
England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2  0.03 
Scotland (2002)  0.06  0.2 0.02 
Japan (2002)  0.02 0.04 0 

Data taken from Cukier and Sidel (2006) The Global Gun Epidemic. Praeger Security International.  Westport.

Klinton ... Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

Pa to sa statistikama ti bas nije nesto. Pogledaj ko vodi po ukupnom broju samoubitstava i da li to bas korelira sa oruzjem. Finska je pri vrhu ali i neke druge drzave gde su zakoni striktniji poput Srbije recimo. U tome je i ceo problem, ovde se stalno prica o pojedinacnim slucajevima a kad se onda analizira na nivou drzave/drustva sve to pada u vodu. O cinjenici da najliberalniji zakoni po ovom pitanju vladaju upravo u drzavama koje su dostigle i najvisi nivo pravne drzave/uredjenog drustva da i ne govorim. Jednostavno, kad bi se radilo o univerzalnom problemu/istini onda ne bi smeli da postoje takvi ocigledni izuzeci, kako u pozitivnom tako i u negativnom smislu. Ono sto ja vidim vise kao problem su pojedinacni masakri koji se desavaju sa vremena na vreme ali ne samo u US nego recimo i u Nemackoj gde su zakoni po ovom pitanju restriktivni. Tu su potrebne ozbiljne kampanje ali, sa druge strane niko ne brani kupovinu automobila ljudima kojima nije apsolutno potreban pa ipak broj saobracajnih nezgoda, povredjenih i mrtvih je neuporedivo veci. Mislim, koliko puta vidite nekog pobesnelog 20-godisnjaka koji subotom uvece juri kao pusten sa lanca? Sto ne bi i takvima preventivno zabranili posedovanje automobila? U velikoj vecini slucajeva moze on i autobusom/biciklom do diskoteke. Kad se kaze da oruzje sluzi iskljucivo ubijanju onda to statisticki jednostavno nije tacno jer velika vecina oruzja recimo u Svajcarskoj ili Ceskoj nikad ne biva upotrebljena na takav nacin kao sto ni vecina automobila ne sluzi ubijanju.

[braca]

Pogledajte boj samoubistava, kada je oruzhje nadohvat ruke ... brinem za andurila i mandinga ... momci, zezam se naravno

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated): Homicide Suicide Other (inc Accident) USA (2001) 3.98 5.92 0.36 Italy (1997) 0.81 1.1 0.07 Switzerland (1998) 0.50 5.8 0.10 Canada (2002) 0.4 2.0 0.04 Finland (2003) 0.35 4.45 0.10 Australia (2001) 0.24 1.34 0.10 France (2001) 0.21 3.4 0.49 England/Wales (2002) 0.15 0.2 0.03Scotland (2002) 0.06 0.2 0.02 Japan (2002) 0.02 0.04 0 Data taken from Cukier and Sidel (2006) The Global Gun Epidemic. Praeger Security International. Westport.

upravo o tome se radi, pogledajte tek boldovano : to su zemlje gde cak ni redovna policija nema vatreno oruzje Edited January 31, 2011 by braca

[braca]

Kad se kaze da oruzje sluzi iskljucivo ubijanju onda to statisticki jednostavno nije tacno jer velika vecina oruzja recimo u Svajcarskoj ili Ceskoj nikad ne biva upotrebljena na takav nacin kao sto ni vecina automobila ne sluzi ubijanju.

Ok, cemu onda sluzi vatreno oruzje? Zbog cega se proizvodi? Za sta se koristi?

[Anduril]

upravo o tome se radi, pogledajte tek boldovano : to su zemlje gde cak ni redovna policija nema vatreno oruzje

To vec ima mnogo vise smisla jer se stvara paritet sa gradjanima.

Ok, cemu onda sluzi vatreno oruzje? Zbog cega se proizvodi? Za sta se koristi?

Sport, lov, kolekcionari, osecaj sigurnosti samo zato sto negde zakljucano u kuci iako nikad nece biti korisceno, itd. U 99% slucajeva se radi o tome a ne zato sto neko hoce nekog da ubije jer bi u protivnom statistike bile devastirajuce.

[S.L.]

Ok, cemu onda sluzi vatreno oruzje? Zbog cega se proizvodi? Za sta se koristi?

A čemu služi vojska ako se ne ratuje non stop? ;)

[braca]

Sport, lov, kolekcionari, osecaj sigurnosti...

Pravis se malo blesav, a? Nema veze, dosadno na poslu, mogu to i ja malo.

Sport

To bese vezbanje gadjanja pistoljem u metu koja ima ljudski oblik?

lov

Hladnokrvno ubijanje zivotinja koje ti nista nisu skrivile?

kolekcionari...

Kolekcijska vrednost nece biti manja ako se oruzje onesposobi - pa ga kolekcionarisi koliko ti volja, ali da ne mozes nikog da ubijes primerkom iz kolekcije

osecaj sigurnosti

lazni osecaj sigurnosti moze biti veoma opasan Edited January 31, 2011 by braca

[braca]

A čemu služi vojska ako se ne ratuje non stop? ;)

Ako mene pitas - nicemu. Ja bih to ukinuo.

[cedo]

Pa to sa statistikama ti bas nije nesto. Pogledaj ko vodi po ukupnom broju samoubitstava i da li to bas korelira sa oruzjem. Finska je pri vrhu ali i neke druge drzave gde su zakoni striktniji poput Srbije recimo. U tome je i ceo problem, ovde se stalno prica o pojedinacnim slucajevima a kad se onda analizira na nivou drzave/drustva sve to pada u vodu. O cinjenici da najliberalniji zakoni po ovom pitanju vladaju upravo u drzavama koje su dostigle i najvisi nivo pravne drzave/uredjenog drustva da i ne govorim. Jednostavno, kad bi se radilo o univerzalnom problemu/istini onda ne bi smeli da postoje takvi ocigledni izuzeci, kako u pozitivnom tako i u negativnom smislu. Ono sto ja vidim vise kao problem su pojedinacni masakri koji se desavaju sa vremena na vreme ali ne samo u US nego recimo i u Nemackoj gde su zakoni po ovom pitanju restriktivni. Tu su potrebne ozbiljne kampanje ali, sa druge strane niko ne brani kupovinu automobila ljudima kojima nije apsolutno potreban pa ipak broj saobracajnih nezgoda, povredjenih i mrtvih je neuporedivo veci. Mislim, koliko puta vidite nekog pobesnelog 20-godisnjaka koji subotom uvece juri kao pusten sa lanca? Sto ne bi i takvima preventivno zabranili posedovanje automobila? U velikoj vecini slucajeva moze on i autobusom/biciklom do diskoteke. Kad se kaze da oruzje sluzi iskljucivo ubijanju onda to statisticki jednostavno nije tacno jer velika vecina oruzja recimo u Svajcarskoj ili Ceskoj nikad ne biva upotrebljena na takav nacin kao sto ni vecina automobila ne sluzi ubijanju.

Andurile ... USA i Shvajcarska ubedljivo vode u broju samoubistava ... mozhda u Finskoj mnogo piju, pa im razne stvari padaju na pamet ... evo braca pomenu momenat koji ja nisam ni znao ... a ti opet hocesh oruzhje i kao to je zbog pariteta ... da, bash se ljudi manje samoubijaju zato shto policija ne nosi oruzhje.A ovo poredjenje oruzhja i kola ti je ravno poredjenju cigarete sa kolima ... shto je bilo pravovremeno pokazano kao neprimereno ... kola, naime imaju svoju svrhu. Bash kao oruzhje i cigarete.edit: Finska...The typical profile of a Finnish suicide victim is a man in his 40s, divorced and unemployed, alcoholic and in poor health. Edited January 31, 2011 by cedo

[Anduril]

To bese vezbanje gadjanja pistoljem u metu koja ima ljudski oblik?

Da, Jasna Sekaric je (potencijalni) ubica.

Hladnokrvno ubijanje zivotinja koje ti nista nisu skrivile?

Dok su zivotinje u klanicama skrivile mnogo vise.

Kolekcijska vrednost nece biti manja ako se oruzje onesposobi - pa ga kolekcionarisi koliko ti volja, ali da ne mozes nikog da ubijes sa primerkom iz kolekcije

Tacno ali to se tako i radi - posebno ako se prezentuje.

lazni osecaj sigurnosti moze biti veoma opasan

Naravno, ali to ne mora biti tako u svim ili cak vecini slucajeva. Postoji dosta kriminoloskih publikacija koje tvrde upravo suprotno. Mislim, ako vec imas vremena probaj njih da demantujes. Meni je vec dovoljno ako znam da broj ubistava/nasilje ocigledno ne korelira sa legalnim posedom licnog naoruzanja. Da li se to nekome svidja ili ne je vec drugo pitanje. Ja recimo nemam oruzje, necu ga ni imati, nikada nisam lovio ali mi zato ne pada na pamet da propisujem moje afiniteta drugima.Takodje, postoje prilicno devastirajuci podaci o broju ljudi ubijenih od strane policije - ni krivi ni duzni. Kanadski ili UK model je tu vec bolji.@ CedoHajde proveri podatke o ukupnom broju samoubistava po zemlji i vidi gde je tu Svarcarska. Edited January 31, 2011 by Anduril

[cedo]

@ CedoHajde proveri podatke o ukupnom broju samoubistava po zemlji i vidi gde je tu Svarcarska.

IzvoliNemoj Shvajcarsku da uporedjujesh sa svetom ... uporedi je sa uporedivim drzhavama ...Statistika koju sam postavio jeste validna za ovaj topic, jer govori o samoubistvima izvrshenim vatrenim oruzhjem ... a to shto ti trazhish govori o mnogim drugim stvarima ...Finska ti tu dodje vishe kao izuzetak, jer je u njoj broj samoubistava medju najvecima u svetu.Chak shtavishe ... vidi koliki procenat se ljudi samoubije u Shvajcarskoj vatrenim oruzhjem, ili u Americi, od svih samoubistava ... nije da chovek nece naci nachin da uchini neshto, ali ako mu je oruzhje na dohvat ruke, sigurno se povecava mogucnost uspeha u nameri. Kada vec prichamo o tome.

[Anduril]

IzvoliNemoj Shvajcarsku da uporedjujesh sa svetom ... uporedi je sa uporedivim drzhavama ...Statistika koju sam postavio jeste validna za ovaj topic, jer govori o samoubistvima izvrshenim vatrenim oruzhjem ... a to shto ti trazhish govori o mnogim drugim stvarima ...Finska ti tu dodje vishe kao izuzetak, jer je u njoj broj samoubistava medju najvecima u svetu.Chak shtavishe ... vidi koliki procenat se ljudi samoubije u Shvajcarskoj vatrenim oruzhjem, ili u Americi, od svih samoubistava ... nije da chovek nece naci nachin da uchini neshto, ali ako mu je oruzhje na dohvat ruke, sigurno se povecava mogucnost uspeha u nameri. Kada vec prichamo o tome.

Evo, uporedjujem sa Francuskom, Slovenijom i Belgijom. I?Verujem da restriktivniji zakoni o naoruzanju smanjuju broj ubistava vatrenim oruzjem sto je i logicno ali recimo u Australiji cini mi se su posmatrali dalje povecanje broja samoubistava drugim metodama i pored povecanih restrikcija. Dakle, tipican primer uklanjanja simptoma a ignorisanje uzroka.

[braca]

Naravno, ali to ne mora biti tako u svim ili cak vecini slucajeva. Postoji dosta kriminoloskih publikacija koje tvrde upravo suprotno. Mislim, ako vec imas vremena probaj njih da demantujes. Meni je vec dovoljno ako znam da broj ubistava/nasilje ocigledno ne korelira sa legalnim posedom licnog naoruzanja.

Statistics: Gun Violence in Our CommunitiesSchool SafetyLess than 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from school. (Centers for Disease Control, 1997)Children and Gun ViolenceIn a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)America and Gun ViolenceAmerican children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)Guns in the Wrong HandsFaulty records enable terrorists, illegal aliens and criminals to purchase guns. Over a two and a half-year period, at least 9,976 convicted felons and other illegal buyers in 46 states obtained guns because of inadequate records. (Broken Records, Americans for Gun Safety Foundation)School Safety * Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001) * In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000) * Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998) * The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)Children and Gun Violence * America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics) * In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund) * The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)America and Gun Violence * Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) * The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) * American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)Guns in the Wrong Hands * Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation’s 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here. * Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here. * Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety) * According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com. * The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one. * In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000) * According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001).

Edited January 31, 2011 by braca

[mandingo]

Ocigledno je vatreno oruzje previse taboo, da bi se diskusija uopste razvila u pravcu individualnih prava. Vatreno oruzje postoji, monopol nad njim ima drzava (bilo koja), a zloupetreba istog je samo VT massacre, Columbine i samoubistva ( ), dok su II Svetski rat, Koreja, Vijetnam, Irak i svi ostali ratovi... sta? Mozda je bolje onda pricati o nekoj manje kontroverznom temom, kao sto je marihuana, na primer.