On 30. 11. 2023. at 15:26, Weenie Pooh said:

 

Different strokes for different folks, nisu situacije baš uporedive. Ne branim Kisindžera moralnoetički nego uočavam da se u njegovo vreme delovalo dok se danas pozira.

 

Šta pričaš ti? Amerika je slala oružje Izraelu 1973 baš kao što šalje oružje Ukrajini 2023.

 

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 15:26, Weenie Pooh said:

To je jasan znak imperijalne degradacije, za nekog pozitivan a za nekog negativan.

 

Na degradaciju je i Putin računao. Samo da malo na početku pripreti nuklearkama i gotov rat, parada u Kijevu. Kad ono medjutim…

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 15:47, Roger Sanchez said:

možda je taj fakt da su SAD i materijalno zalegle za spas Izraela omogućio uvjerenost Izraela da će konjica uvijek doći u spas i da se mogu davati ustupci dok god je garancija u Washingtonu DC

vec bolje, ali fale bitni detalji

Dakle, da li je Egipat 1973 godine napao Izrael ili je pokusao da oslobodi osvojene teritorije?

oruzje je bilo namenjeno odbrani Izraela ili ocuvanja osvojenih teritorija?

 

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 15:26, Roger Sanchez said:

Ček, nema nikakve komponente 1 oslobodilačkog pokreta trećeg svijeta u ISILu?

 

Postoji i socijalna komponenta u nacional-socijalizmu, pa? Tom logikom mozes da izjednacis bilo sta, Al Kaidu i Fatah, Hitlera i Tita.

Sto se tice stava nekog ko zivi u Evropi, naravno da treba da budemo zadovoljni sto je suzbijena sila koja je pretila da vrati celi Bliski istok u srednji vek. Ako Hamas sada moze da ugrozava Evropu terorizmom, ISIS je mogao da radi to isto i plus da unisti i ono malo sekularnog na Bliskom istoku, sto znaci da je ugrozavao bezbednost Evrope i celog Mediterana na najdirektniji nacin.

Ono sto treba osuditi su zlocini protiv civila u ratu protiv ISISa, neselektivna bombardovanja i unistavanje citavih gradova.

Plus to sto je neko protiv ISIS, ne znaci da nije i protiv Hamasa. Ali ako su oba losa, ne znaci da jedno od ta dva nije mnogo gore i opasnije.

Kad bi te dve organizacije bile jednako lose ne bi bilo potrebe da Izrael Hamas naziva ISISom. Zove ga tako zato sto svi znamo kolika je opasnost bio i sta je predstavljao ISIS. 

Edited November 30, 20231 yr by Meazza

Evo kako atlantisti sikte što je Kisindžer dočekan kao kralj u Kini, dok su neki zvaničnici izignorisani. Šta mislite zašto je dočekan kao kralj? 

 

 

 

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 16:08, ObiW said:

Šta pričaš ti? Amerika je slala oružje Izraelu 1973 baš kao što šalje oružje Ukrajini 2023

U toj paraleli slali bi oruzje Egiptu cije su teritorije bile osvojene i anektirane. Isto kao sto je 1967e slala oruzje arapskim zemljama koje su bile napadnute

 

 

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 16:11, x500 said:

napao Izrael ili je pokusao da oslobodi osvojene teritorije?

oruzje je bilo namenjeno odbrani Izraela ili ocuvanja osvojenih teritorija?

Napao je Izrael da bi pokušao da oslobodi osvojene teritorije-

Bilo je namijenjeno za obranu Izraela očuvanjem osvojenih teritorija.

Edited November 30, 20231 yr by Roger Sanchez

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 16:05, dragance said:

Pa jebo te. Zar se ovakve gadosti smeju pisati na forumu??

 

Te gadosti™ su činjenice. Hamas je za razliku od ISIL orijentisan nacionano: posvećen je oslobođenju Palestine, ne vodi globalni džihad ni protiv velikog Satane ni protiv šiita. 

 

Kome se ne sviđa, može da mi počupa kabl.

 

  On 30. 11. 2023. at 16:08, ObiW said:

Šta pričaš ti? Amerika je slala oružje Izraelu 1973 baš kao što šalje oružje Ukrajini 2023.

 

Tebe baš nešto žulja Ukrajina? Ima krema za to.

 

Ovde smo pričali o Izraelu u Kisindžerovo doba i Izraelu danas, 

 

 

 

 

Najmoćniji sin sjedinjenih naroda je samo jahao na krilima slave koja je donela ubrzanu pobedu saveznika. To što je radio na produbljivanju (i stvaranju) polariteta gde god mu je pružena prilika je samo znak da su sva društva podložna propasti. Divide et impera.

Na temu debilnog poređenja ISILa i Hamasa:

 

Reveal hidden contents

Mouin Rabbani: The “Hamas-ISIS" line has become untenable
This writing by Mouin Rabbani critiques the failing strategies of US propaganda

 

About a week ago the US and Israeli suddenly stopped comparing Hamas to ISIS. The term “Hamas-ISIS” had become de rigueur among Israeli officials in their public statements, and along with their partners-in-crime in Washington they often insisted Hamas is worse – much worse even – than ISIS. It’s a familiar playbook. In 2001 the Twin Towers had barely collapsed and Ariel Sharon immediately began insisting the PLO was no different than Al-Qaeda and that Yassir Arafat was worse than Usama Bin Laden. Israel’s flunkies and apologists immediately and dutifully followed suit. 

 

But “Hamas-ISIS” is no longer. Israel’s acolytes have for the most part yet to receive the message, and continue parroting a line that has gone out of style with their leaders, but will probably follow suit at some point within the next 24 months.

 

So, what happened? Most obviously, the US and Israel have been negotiating, concluding, and implementing a series of agreements with “Hamas-ISIS”. It’s not a particularly good look to be in intensive discussions with, and make one concession after the other to, a movement that is purportedly more vicious and brutal than an organization that not only the West but the international community as well considers entirely beyond the pale. Especially at a time when a broader agreement, extending beyond an exchange of captives, is reportedly being discussed in Doha by the CIA and Mossad chiefs – the city where not only the Qatari mediators but also Hamas’s current and former political leaders, Ismail Haniyyeh and Khalid Mashal, reside.

 

The fact that Hamas is negotiating exchanges of captives and releasing not only foreign but also Israeli Jewish civilians, rather than slitting their throats in gruesome snuff videos also doesn’t help the cause. Nor do testimonies by released captives that, the violence and abuse of their initial seizure notwithstanding, they have generally been treated humanely. 

 

Of course, no civilian deserves to be held captive unless convicted of a specific crime by legitimate authority, yet the contrast between the testimonies of released Israeli and Palestinian civilian captives is enormous. Released Palestinian women and children speak of constant physical and verbal abuse, particularly since 7 October; all manner of deprivation; and an escalation of abuse once it became apparent they would be released. Furious at Palestinian joy at the release of their own captives, rampaging Israeli forces have also shot and killed several Palestinian well-wishers, enveloped most others in clouds of tear gas, and raided the homes of receiving families to evict journalists and warn against celebrations or even “expressions of joy”. 

 

Palestinians are not ruled by the Israeli government in the same sense that Israelis within the pre-1967 boundaries are. Rather, they are subject to military government, effectively an Israeli military dictatorship whose rule is best described as totalitarian. It has for example banned flags, even particular color combinations (in clothing and painting for example), and in 2023 also “expressions of joy”. 

 

Hamas videos of the release of their captives, in which they assist the elderly, provide water bottles, and wave goodbye (not quite ISIS-friendly optics) have been criticized as political theatre and propaganda. Fair enough. But it is still quite the contrast with the scenes outside Ofer Prison where Israel releases Palestinian captives. There, the best that Israeli propaganda can achieve is clouds of tear gas, intimidation of journalists, live ammunition, and bullet-ridden corpses. (And, for good measure, arresting more civilians than it releases.)

 

So not only did the US and Israel want to avoid the accusation they were negotiating with ISIS, the available imagery is also unconducive to the narrative. Joe Biden will go to his grave insisting he has seen videos of infants beheaded by Hamas, but it’s gotten to the point where even poor Jill rolls her eyes. Other Israeli and US claims have also drawn the short end of the stick. 

 

For example, the Israeli authorities recently reduced their tally of Israelis killed on 7 October from 1400 to 1200. The reason is that 200 corpses, burned beyond recognition, belonged to Palestinians rather than Israelis. This suggests Hamas was not systematically setting fire to live humans. Similarly, Israeli intelligence (or what’s left of it) has now concluded that Hamas did not have prior knowledge of the rave organized close to the boundary between Israel and the Gaza concentration camp. Therefore this could not have been a premeditated atrocity. I am of course not claiming no atrocities were committed on 7 October, but rather that as more facts become available the “Hamas-ISIS” propaganda line becomes increasingly untenable.

 

If we put aside Biden’s hallucinations and take Netanyahu off autorepeat for a moment, the ideological, organizational, and political relationship between Hamas and ISIS remains a legitimate field of inquiry. It’s also pretty conclusive. Hamas and ISIS are indeed both Islamist movements. But that’s pretty much where the comparison ends. To suggest they are equivalent or identical is akin to claiming there is no difference between constitutional and absolute monarchies because their heads of state acquire office in the same manner. 

 

Hamas is the Palestinian chapter of the Muslim Brotherhood, a regional Islamist movement formed almost a century ago. Its various national branches have sought to achieve political power through mass mobilization, and as such have formed political parties; provided social services; participated in elections, coups, and uprisings; engaged in armed campaigns against domestic autocracy and foreign domination; and in a number of cases formed internationally-recognized governments. It’s a fundamentally different template than that pursued by ISIS.

 

Hamas was established in the cauldron of the Israeli occupation, and like other Palestinian organizations actively participated in the struggle to end Israeli rule. In 2006 it participated in Palestinian legislative elections, fully certified by the Carter Center, which it won. In 2007 Hamas seized power in the Gaza Strip after a year during which its various domestic and foreign adversaries, to put it politely, actively worked to undermine it. In the intervening years it has in addition to attacks which have garnered global headlines developed relations with states as diverse as Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Russia, and Qatar; negotiated prisoner exchanges and ceasefires with Israel; freed and released foreign hostages (including BBC journalist Alan Johnston) abducted by rivals and criminal gangs; endorsed a two-state settlement with Israel; and cooperated with a variety of UN agencies and international organisations. 

 

Its governance of the Gaza Strip has, to varying degrees, been hegemonic and repressive, but like its politics and policies defies any comparison to that experienced under ISIS’s self-styled caliphate in Syria and Iraq. 

 

ISIS has in fact been bitterly critical of Hamas, and considers the group in its entirety, as well as each of its individual members, “apostates” and “polytheists” – its most serious transgressions of all. This is on account of, among other mortal sins, Hamas’s participation in democratic elections, its failure to govern solely in accordance with shari’a Islamic law, its relations with Iran and other regional states, and prioritization of Palestinian liberation. Perhaps for this reason Hamas made short shrift of attempts by the Islamic State movement to establish a foothold in the Gaza Strip, primarily in Rafah, during 2015-2016.

 

Dems senator dick durbin blokirao subpoena od republikanke da fbi objavi Epstein listu putnika. 

 

Licno mislim da je bas dosta politicara iz obe stranke umesano u sex trafficking i pedoflliju. 

 

 

nepogrešivo

Maricopa county, mein gott was passiert hier? 

 

  Quote

Kari Lake was hit with another legal loss in Arizona on Thursday in her ongoing battle to prove that her 2022 loss to Democratic Governor Katie Hobbs was plagued with election fraud.