Avionski udesi i nesreće

[Čutura]

zasto je uopste moguce iskljuciti crnu kutiju iz kokpita, a i transponder i ovaj satelitski gadzet. ne razumem.

[Frile]

@Tsai

najcrnje je što je su se pre toga zaista desile dve nesreće sa tim elementima zapleta:

- Germanwings 9525 koji se zakucao u planinu pošto se pilot-samoubica zaključao u kokpitu
- Helios Airways 522 kada je usled gubitka pritiska u kabini celokupna posada i putnici ugušila/onesvestila i avion je jedrio dok nije potrošio gorivo i lagno udariio u planinu

 

@Čutura

ne znam za crnu kutiju, ali transponder se rutinski uključuje/isključuje ako nekom tako odgovara. Ponekad preko flightradara pratim avione što mi preleću preko glave kad sleću na Surčin, zanimljivi su mi oni veći/ređi a to su uglanom ti što transportuju oružje i ko zna šta još. Mnogi od njih gase transporder mnogo pre Beograda, ili ih pale tek kada se malo udalje. Ostali drže uključen transponde svo vreme. Mogu da razumem zašto vojni ili predsednički avioni selektivno uključuju transponder, ali mi nisu jasni ovi transportni.

[Pegin]

26 minutes ago, Čutura said:

zasto je uopste moguce iskljuciti crnu kutiju iz kokpita, a i transponder i ovaj satelitski gadzet. ne razumem.

FDR i CVR nije moguće "isključiti" na prekidač, iz kokpita,  oni se sami startuju  i rade tokom leta , snimajući u loopu od 30-120 minuta podataka/tonskog zapisa, zavisno od tipa uređaja.

Moguće ih je skinuti sa napajanja uklanjanjem/deaktiviranjem nekih od osigurača, ali su oni uglavnom nedostupni jer su većinom u  delu servisnog prostora za elektroniku.
Pored toga, neki od novijih , a verujem da su na Erbasu baš takvi, imaju i posebno autonomno napajanje.

Baš taj loop u snimanju je zanimljiv, jer je let MH370 trajao znatno duže (više sati) posle prelomnog događaja promene kursa na jug, kada je veruje se pilot ostao sam u kokpitu, pa je posle samo pregazio sminak CVRa iz kokpita  tišinom ili možda nekim porukama pilota samoubice (ako je to slučaj).

 

 

[Tsai]

@Frile

 

Germanwings se desio kasnije, zar ne? MH370 je 2014. a Germanwings 2015.

 

I meni je potpuno besmisleno da se transponder iskljucuje na civilnim letovima, tj da postoji opcija za to uopste

[Tsai]

3 minutes ago, Pegin said:

FDR i CVR nije moguće "isključiti" na prekidač, iz kokpita,  oni se sami startuju  i rade tokom leta , snimajući u loopu od 30-120 minuta podataka/tonskog zapisa, zavisno od tipa uređaja.

Moguće ih je skinuti sa napajanja uklanjanjem/deaktiviranjem nekih od osigurača, ali su oni uglavnom nedostupni jer su većinom u  delu servisnog prostora za elektroniku.
Pored toga, neki od novijih , a verujem da su na Erbasu baš takvi, imaju i posebno autonomno napajanje.

Baš taj loop u snimanju je zanimljiv, jer je let MH370 trajao znatno duže (više sati) posle prelomnog događaja promene kursa na jug, kada je veruje se pilot ostao sam u kokpitu, pa je posle samo pregazio sminak CVRa iz kokpita  tišinom ili možda nekim porukama pilota samoubice (ako je to slučaj).

 

 

 

A znaci i kad bi je otkrili ne bi moglo da se premota sve? Presnimava se posle nekog vremena?

[jms_uk]

6 minutes ago, Tsai said:

I meni je potpuno besmisleno da se transponder iskljucuje na civilnim letovima, tj da postoji opcija za to uopste

 

Mislim da je u pitanju 'osigurac' koji moze da se resetuje (iskljuci/ukljuci) za vecinu elektronskih stvari u avionu.

 

5 minutes ago, Tsai said:

 

A znaci i kad bi je otkrili ne bi moglo da se premota sve? Presnimava se posle nekog vremena?

 

Da, zato je bitno da se tokom nekih situacija (npr. ne katastrofalnih udesa) izvadi crna kutija sto pre da se ne bi presnimilo sve.

[Tsai]

Sranje, znaci i ako se nekad pronadje, ne znaci nista u sustini. Mozda je to i bila namera onog ko je upravljao avionom

[jms_uk]

31 minutes ago, Tsai said:

Sranje, znaci i ako se nekad pronadje, ne znaci nista u sustini. Mozda je to i bila namera onog ko je upravljao avionom

 

Moguce za CVR, ali mozda se (bar) nesto zakljuci od podataka sa FDR-a (ako/kad bude nadjen).

[189-]

ima i ovo, postavljao sam vec

 

 

[x500]

3 hours ago, Čutura said:

transponder i ovaj satelitski gadzet. ne razumem.

Recimo letovi preko Avganistana 2016, kada sam ja leteo, su imali iskljucene transpondere iz bezbedonosnih razloga.

 

Sto se tice jedrenja vazduhoplova, savremene konstrukcije omogucavaju da se napravi vise od 100km bez motora. 

[JozoMujica]

52 minutes ago, 189- said:

ima i ovo, postavljao sam vec

 

Bila je i cela epizoda Air Craft Investigations na NG...

[Tsai]

špekulacije, ali jako zanimljivo i vrlo realan scenario (tj najrealniji od svih a svaki je lud)

 

 

Spoiler

If he wanted to commit suicide, why not fly the plane into mountains? Wouldn't that be ruled pilot error?

 

-

I posted this in another thread, but I believe it explains why I believe that this wasn't a depressed person just looking for a way out. I believe there is another motive here. This is some speculation on what it might look like.

---

The more one thinks about this, the more wild theories and and possible scenarios come to mind - and more possible areas for investigation - most of which will probably never be able to be determined.

Perhaps he was planning this for a while on his home flight simulator because he was very pissed off and something finally pushed him over the edge like the recent political events he had attended right before the flight where his political hopes were dashed once again and he saw this as an opportunity to tarnish the political leaders in Malaysia? The picture on this website of him wearing a T-Shirt that says 'Democracy is Dead' could be an indication of his level of frustration.

Perhaps the information that he had been suspended (instead of just furloughed as the airline is now saying) for some undisclosed reason was accurate, and that was called back from suspension because of pilot shortages to take this flight (as a Malaysian forum said from someone who said they knew the family) and saw this as an opportunity to get even for the insult to his honor as an Malaysian Airline pilot simulator evaluator and senior pilot? Especially if the threat was there to return him to suspension status after the flight as continued punishment for something they are alleging he did that he thought was unjust?

Perhaps there was an severely embarrassing situation that was going to be made public that would tarnish his name and reputation beyond anything a proud professional man could stand? Apparently in Malaysia, they play politics very dirty. Captain Shah was allegedly a fierce and proud support of the opposition leader, Anwar Ibrahim. Mr. Ibrahim was just sentenced to jail (again) for sodomy related to an alleged homosexual sex tape that the opposition says was faked (Captain Shah allegedly attended the sentencing trial the day before the flight). Did Captain Shah make his political beliefs known loudly and proudly at the airline? The Malaysian Government is the majority shareholder of Malaysian Air. Could this have led to problems at for the Captain at the airline? And possibly political repercussions from the government similar to the alleged framing of Anwar Ibrahim with a homosexual sex tape? Accusing a proud Muslim man in Malaysia of homosexuality doesn't just include a very negative stigma, it can also include a 20 year prison sentence. Which by the way Anwar Ibrahim was fighting to get changed. This alone could have caused someone like Captain Shah to decide that he couldn't stand the shame to him and his family name and punish the airline and the government in one huge criminal act.

There are reports that the government had Captain Shah's notebook computer for a number of days after the disappearance before telling anyone or giving it to investigators. If true, what were they looking for?

These are all just speculations. And ones that if true, will probably never be able to be confirmed unless other witnesses come forward.

If the airline and government was complicit in some kind of dirty tricks game against Captain Shah for his political actions, do you think that they are going to be forthcoming with the evidence of their actions? Do you think that if Captain Shah had been suspended by Malaysian Air because of his political activity (influenced by their majority shareholder, the Malaysian government), that they are going to let that information be known? Or would they deny it and say he had merely been furloughed on his normal days off?

I believe that Captain Shah was facing a situation that he saw as impossible to live through, and looked for an opportunity to punish those responsible, while at the same time trying to protect his honor. I believe that crashing a Malaysian Airlines flight and hiding the evidence was his plan. That is why he would have tried to keep the evidence as secret as possible, so as to protect his honor, the honor of his family, protect whatever life insurance they would receive, and punish those people that he saw as doing him a great injustice he couldn't fix once his potential political hopes were dashed with the jailing of Anwar Ibrahim.

And suspicion on his ability as a pilot only comes into play if the alleged suicide plot is discovered. If the evidence his completely lost forever (as was the plan I maintain), there is no way to implicate him in this action by the very people he did this to get back at, even if they were inclined to implicate him (which would reveal the reason why he did it in the first place). All we will know is that it could have been a hijacking, the First Officer did it, another crew member did it, airplane malfunction leading to pilot incapacitation, and on and on and on...

Exactly what I believe the plan was in this murder/suicide.

 

[zorglub]

8 hours ago, x500 said:

Sto se tice jedrenja vazduhoplova, savremene konstrukcije omogucavaju da se napravi vise od 100km bez motora.

 

Koliko se ovako dunđerski razumem, zavisi od x faktora, uključujući alt., masu, glide ratio i min. sink speed. Rekord valjda drži onaj kanadski A330 što je sleteo na Azore.

 

Edit: Jeste, 121km.

Edited December 6, 2022 by zorglub

[Tsai]

Larry Vance has spent a lifetime in aviation. His background as a training pilot, flight test examiner, and civil aviation inspector led to a career as a professional accident investigator.

He was Investigator-In-Charge for over 200 field investigations. He was also a leader in the Swissair 111 crash investigation, for which he received a Government of Canada Certification of Recognition. He also received the prestigious Government of Canada Merit Award for writing the Transportation Safety Board of Canada's Manual of Investigation Operations.

He continues to work on high-profile investigations worldwide and provides investigator training to international clients, including to government investigative agencies.

 

https://www.amazon.com/MH370-Mystery-Solved-Larry-Vance/dp/1775283429

 

 

 

 

Odlusho sam u cugu, najez od glave do pete

[dùda]

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