Izrael, Palestina i arapske zemlje

[Pečorin]

Ne verujem ni da bi Tramp mogao da zabrani ulazak američkom državljaninu.

[Weenie Pooh]

10 hours ago, Spooky said:

a verujem da bi pod trampom lako mogli da ga prošire i na zvaničnike i vojnike Izraela)

 

Ne moraju ništa da proširuju, zakon važi za ne samo za američke državljane nego i nedefinisane "saveznike".

 

Znači, na volji je svakoj izvršnoj vlasti da odluči kada će ga i da li primeniti.

[Shan Jan]

Moram da priznam da nisam ocekivao da ce ICC ici ovako jako protiv Izraela a jos manje da ce biti ozbiljnih Zapadnih zemalja koje ce pratiti.

[dragance]

Cela EU prati i poštovaće, osim (možda) Orbana i Nemaca. Za njima prati i UK. Dogorelo je konačno i Bibiju. Okrenula se cela javnost protiv njih, što je veliki uspeh.

[theanswer]

Prekid vatre sa Hezbolahom od 4 AM local time 

[Weenie Pooh]

20 minutes ago, theanswer said:

Prekid vatre sa Hezbolahom od 4 AM local time 

 

Opa, Trampara mirotvorac, već u -55. danu vladavine rešio bliskoistočnu krizu

 

Koja je izraelska argumentacija, pretpostavljam da neće reći da su dobili preko pičke?

 

[Shan Jan]

Pa dobro, nije li to i bio cilj, da prestane Hezbolahovo raketiranje?

[Weenie Pooh]

21 minutes ago, Shan Jan said:

Pa dobro, nije li to i bio cilj, da prestane Hezbolahovo raketiranje?

 

Kaže opozicija da nije, da je cilj bio da se razoruža protivnik a ne puj pike ne važi.

[mackenzie]

Znači ništa od Armagedona. Šteta... Gde ćete za Novu?

[Shan Jan]

3 minutes ago, Weenie Pooh said:

 

Kaže opozicija da nije, da je cilj bio da se razoruža protivnik a ne puj pike ne važi.

Ma znam ja sta je bio battle cry Izraela ali sustina je da su oni hteli bas ovo da postignu - da Hezbolah izadje iz ovog rata.

[Roger Sanchez]

4 hours ago, Weenie Pooh said:

pretpostavljam da neće reći da su dobili preko pičke

Teško da će to reći ako se Hezbolah povlači s granice.

 

Iran prducnuo u čabar

[vememah]

Netanjahu pri objavi primirja najavio da će ono pomoći Izraelcima da se koncentrišu na pretnju iz Irana.

 

Transkript govora:

Quote

'LENGTH OF THE CEASEFIRE DEPENDS ON WHAT HAPPENS IN LEBANON'

Netanyahu: ‘We retain full freedom of military action’ against Hezbollah, with US okay

Prime minister gives three key reasons for wanting ceasefire now: To focus on the Iranian threat, rest and reequip soldiers, and isolate Hamas

The following is the text of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s speech to Israelis on November 26, 2024, presenting “a ceasefire outline” to end the fighting against Hezbollah across the northern border, in a translation provided by the Prime Minister’s Office.

“Citizens of Israel, I promised you victory, and we will achieve victory.

We will complete the task of obliterating Hamas, we will bring home all of our hostages, we will ensure that Gaza no longer poses a threat to Israel and we will return the residents of the north back home safely.

The war will not end until we realize all its goals, including the return of the residents of the north safely home. And I tell you, it will happen, just like it happened in the south.

My friends, residents of the north, I am proud of you, I am proud of your perseverance, and I am totally committed to your security, to the rehabilitation of your communities, to your future.

To date, thanks to the bravery of our fighters in the IDF, the Israel Security Agency, the Mossad and Israel Police, we have made great inroads into the seven fronts of the ‘War of Redemption.’

These achievements are a source of awe and admiration across the globe, and they are projecting Israel’s might throughout the Middle East:

First, the head of the octopus – Iran. We destroyed major parts of Iran’s air defense system and missile-manufacturing capabilities, and we demolished a significant component of their nuclear program.

I am determined to do anything needed to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. That threat has always been my top priority and is even more so today, when you hear Iran’s leaders state over and over again their intention to obtain nuclear weapons. For me, removing that threat is the most important mission to ensure the existence and future of the State of Israel.

In Gaza, we dismantled the Hamas battalions and killed close to 20,000 terrorists. We killed Sinwar, we killed Deif, we killed senior Hamas officials and we brought 154 hostages back. We are committed to bringing them all home, the 101 hostages still in Gaza, those who are still alive as well as the dead, and end the terrible anguish of their families. We are of course committed to completing the annihilation of Hamas.

In Judea and Samaria, we are taking out terrorists, we are destroying terrorist infrastructure and we are operating in all of the terror strongholds. There is no place out of our reach.

In Yemen, we attacked the Houthis’ port of Hodeida forcibly, which the international coalition had not done.

In Iraq, we successfully thwarted, and are still thwarting, many drone attacks, and we have many challenges ahead.

In Syria, we are systematically blocking attempts by Iran, Hezbollah and the Syrian army to transfer weapons to Lebanon. Assad must understand that he is playing with fire.

And now, for the seventh front – Lebanon.

Hezbollah decided to attack us from Lebanon on October 8th. A year later, it is not the same Hezbollah. We have pushed them decades back. We eliminated Nasrallah, the axis of the axis. We have taken out the organization’s top leadership, we have destroyed most of their rockets and missiles, we have killed thousands of terrorists and we demolished their underground terror infrastructure abutting our border, infrastructure they had been building for years.

We have attacked strategic targets throughout Lebanon and we have brought down dozens of terror hi-rises in Beirut’s Dahieh. The ground in Beirut is shaking.

Citizens of Israel, only three months ago, this all would have sounded like science fiction. But it isn’t. We did these things.

At every moment of managing this campaign, I observe all fronts simultaneously. That is what I did at the beginning of the war when I decided to focus on Gaza and not open a broader front in Lebanon. That is what I did several months ago when the conditions ripened to go north, and then we decided to focus on Hezbollah.

That is what I did after the missile attack from Iran, when we meticulously decided on the time and nature of our response.

And that is what I am doing today. I observe all the fronts simultaneously and see the broad picture. I am determined to give our courageous soldiers every resource to keep them safe and bring us victory.

Therefore, this evening I will bring a ceasefire outline for the cabinet’s approval.

The length of the ceasefire depends on what happens in Lebanon.

With the United States’ full understanding, we maintain full freedom of military action. If Hezbollah violates the agreement and tries to arm itself, we will attack. If it tries to rebuild terrorist infrastructure near the border, we will attack. If it launches a rocket, if it digs a tunnel, if it brings in a truck carrying rockets, we will attack.

I hear the claim that if we enter into a ceasefire, we will not be able to attack and will not be able to renew the war. I remind you, that is exactly what they said when we had a ceasefire in Gaza to release the hostages. They said we wouldn’t go back to fighting, but we did.

They tell me Hezbollah will be quiet for a year or two, grow stronger and then attack us. But Hezbollah will be in violation of the agreement not only if it fires on us. It will be in violation of the agreement if it obtains weapons to fire at us in the future. And we will respond forcefully to any violation.

I know there are people who don’t believe we will do that. But many also didn’t believe we would enter Gaza on the ground, and we did. They didn’t believe we would go into Shifa and Khan Younis, and we did. They didn’t believe we would go into Rafah and the Philadelphi corridor, in the face of all the international pressure. Not only did we go in, we attacked, and then some.

Many didn’t believe that we would attack in Lebanon, and we did that too. We attacked with force and sophistication that surprised the whole world.

So after all that, maybe we should start believing? Believe in our determination, believe in our path, in our commitment to victory.

Why should we have a ceasefire now? For three main reasons:

The first reason is to focus on the Iranian threat, and I will not expand on that.

The second reason is to give our forces a breather and replenish stocks. And I say it openly, it is no secret that there have been big delays in weapons and munitions deliveries. These delays will be resolved soon. We will receive supplies of advanced weaponry that will keep our soldiers safe and give us more strike force to complete our mission.

And the third reason for having a ceasefire is to separate the fronts and isolate Hamas. From day two of the war, Hamas was counting on Hezbollah to fight by its side. With Hezbollah out of the picture, Hamas is left on its own. We will increase our pressure on Hamas and that will help us in our sacred mission of releasing our hostages.

Citizens of Israel, In the past year, we turned the tables. We were attacked from seven fronts and we fought back with might. We are changing the face of the Middle East. We are doing all this thanks to our brave soldiers, thanks to your tenacity and thanks to the resolute and smart management of the war.

I have said many times, a good deal is a deal that is enforced, and we will enforce it.

With God’s help, we will establish security, we will rehabilitate the north and continue, united, until victory.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-we-retain-full-freedom-of-military-action-against-hezbollah-with-us-okay/

 

Govor s titlom na engleskom:

 

 

Edited November 27 by vememah

[theanswer]

6 hours ago, Weenie Pooh said:

 

Opa, Trampara mirotvorac, već u -55. danu vladavine rešio bliskoistočnu krizu

 

Koja je izraelska argumentacija, pretpostavljam da neće reći da su dobili preko pičke?

 

 

Ako je neko dobio preko pičke to je Hezbolah ovde. Izrael se vraća na stanje pre osmog oktobra kad i nije bio u ratu sa Hezbolahom, a Gazu su sravnili sa zemljom i ravnaju je i dalje. Pre će Izrael u Gazi pretrpeti poraz. Pritom je Hezbolah ostao bez čitave liderske strukture koju će trebati godine da zamene. Usput su načepili i Iran dobro. 

 

Mislim, one can argue da je povratak na status quo zapravo pobeda za Iran i Hezbolah, da je izbegavanje dodatne eskalacije Irana pobeda jer je cilj Netsnjahua bio uvući Iran skroz u rat ali ako pričamo o ratu samo kao situaciji direktno na terenu mislim da se mora reći da im je Izrael očitao lekciju. 

[namenski]

1 hour ago, theanswer said:

...ali ako pričamo o ratu samo kao situaciji direktno na terenu mislim da se mora reći da im je Izrael očitao lekciju. 

Nemam bitnih primedbi , ali izraelsko citanje lekcije vuce jos neke cinioce koje, mislim da nisi uzeo u obzir: ovo je najduzi rat koji je Izrael do sada vodio, sto vec samo po sebi znaci dokaz izvesne slabosti ciji su koreni poprilicno dublji od (samo) vojne strane stvari.

I to rat koji se nije, kao dosadasnji izraelski ratovi zavrsio cistom, neupitnom pobedom i dokazom izraelske vojne superiornosti.

Uplovio je, kao drustvo, u vrlo problematicno stanje koje nikako ne doprinosi odrzavanju vojne superiornosti, inace glavnog elementa zastrasivanja neposredne okoline, na stranu posledice na samo izraelsko drustvo jer ni jedno moderno drustvo ne moze da se izvuce bez posledica iz sranja kroz koja je Izrael prosao poslednjih godinu dana.

Izrael je, dalje, kao nikada do sada, erodirao svoj ugled i svoju - ako bas moram - moralnu^tm superiornost koja mu je, do sada, itekako donosila poene na takozvanom medjunarodnom planu.

Antisemitizam, jedno od jakih orudja Izraela, sa kojim je - da se ne lazemo - Izrael manipulisao onoliko, zajahace ponovo i sve jace sa izglednim talasom desnicarenja koji - sva je prilika - tek dolazi po svoje.

Vojno i politicki, zaostravanje situacije u Evropi oko rusko-ukrajinskog sukoba, dovesce nuzno do spustanja durbina sa Bliskog istoka, bas kao i izgledna sve jaca i neizvesnija konfrontacija SAD - Kina: jedan od aksioma americke bliskoistocne politike, bezrezervna podrska Izraelu, u tom slucaju nuzno vodi sve jacoj kineskoj podrsci protivnicima Izraela...

Jebemliga, ali bice da se potvrdjuje ona da vreme ne radi za Izrael, cak i kada su eliminisane arapske vodje u pitanju - takvih ce se uvek naci i to brze nego sto iko moze da pretpostavi...

[Fins fleet]

Najduzi rat do sada je jer nemaju plan sta da rade osim da ravnaju sve sa zemljom.

Drago mi sto ce Libanci barem dobiti mali predah. I jedna prognoza: nastavice se vrlo brzo. Nadam se da gresim.