Izrael, Palestina i arapske zemlje

[Shaq]

izrael baca fosforne bombe na juzni liban..

[cedo]

 

 

 

ovaj je stariji/pinovan twit

alal da joj je

 

 

[roux senyurt]

4 minutes ago, Krošek said:

 

najnovije sto nalazim je ovaj clanak okacen pre 40 min https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shani-louk-german-tattoo-artist-hamas-b2427355.html

mislim da je to vest od ranije, samo su je tu okacili nedavno. u svakom slucaju neproverene informacije

[freakns]

28 minutes ago, Caligula said:

 

 

 

 

Grama doslednosti nema, cisto navijanje.

srecom pa imamo tebe da nas obasjas suvim, nepristrasnim cinjenicama

da sutra neko spali Moskvu kao sto su nekada Drezden, ti bi vola na raznju okrenuo. a za tepih Gaze te vec vidim kako spremas opstenarodno veselje. 

upadi Ukrajinaca(odnosno njihovih paravojnih formacija) u oblast Belgoroda, to se ne racuna. tri godine pucanja i mesetarenja po Donbasu, pa za to su Rusi krivi, izazvali Krimom, inace ne bi toga bilo... ali u Gazi, e tu se istorija racuna od upada Hamasa u Izrael. do tada je bilo sve cvece i prolece. 

 

jebote, i jedan i drugi sukob su daleko kompleksniji od jebenog Putina i Hamasa. ja razumem da je najlakse nacrtati poster jedne osobe, gadjati ga pikadom i brisati guzicu sa njime, pa ondak kad peres zube uvece, pogleda se u ogledalo i samog sebe obavije oreolom pravednika i tapse se po ledjima. 

 

ps. daleko su i Hamas i Putin od cvecki. to su hohstapleri svetskog formata, barabe i najverovatnije ratni zlocinci. news flash! isto to su i Netanyaku i Zelenski. kao sto i Vucic ne igra sam, vec mu treba tamo neki Kurti, tako i ovima treba protivteza, inace bi plesali sami. 

[cedo]

 

The end of the Netanyahu doctrine

 

The prime minister's claim that Middle East peace was possible without the Palestinians has been shattered by Hamas' incursion, and the ensuing war.

 

 

Spoiler

The events of recent days are unprecedented. The last time units of Jewish and Palestinian fighters — military or paramilitary — went to battle on such a broad front in Israel-Palestine was in 1948. There have, of course, been various battles over the years in Gaza as well as West Bank cities like Jenin, and Israeli and Palestinian units fought one another in Lebanon in 1982. But there is no parallel to the scope of what has taken place here since Saturday morning, and not since 1948 have Palestinian fighters occupied Jewish communities on this scale.

This fact is not just a historical anecdote; it has a direct political meaning. This murderous and inhumane attack by Hamas arrived just as it seemed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was about to complete his masterpiece: peace with the Arab world while completely ignoring the Palestinians. This attack has reminded Israelis and the world, for better or for worse, that the Palestinians are still here, and that the century-old conflict here involves them, not the Emiratis or the Saudis.  

In his speech at the UN General Assembly two weeks ago, Netanyahu presented a map of “The New Middle East,” depicting the State of Israel stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and building a “corridor of peace and prosperity” with its neighbors across the region, including Saudi Arabia. A Palestinian state, or even the collection of shrunken enclaves that the Palestinian Authority ostensibly controls, does not appear on the map.

 

Since he was first elected prime minister in 1996, Netanyahu has tried to avoid any negotiations with the Palestinian leadership, instead choosing to bypass it and push it aside. Israel does not need peace with the Palestinians to prosper, Netanyahu repeatedly claimed; its military, economic, and political strength is sufficient without it. The fact that during the years of his rule, especially between 2009 and 2019, Israel experienced economic prosperity and its international status improved, was, in his eyes, proof that he is following the right path.

 

 

The Abraham Accords signed with Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, and later also Sudan and Morocco, reinforced this belief conclusively. “For the past 25 years, we have been told repeatedly that peace with other Arab countries will only come after we resolve the conflict with the Palestinians,” Netanyahu wrote in an article in Haaretz before the last election. “Contrary to the prevailing position,” he continued, “I believe that the road to peace does not go through Ramallah, but bypasses it: instead of the Palestinian tail wagging the Arab world, I argued that peace should begin with Arab countries, which would isolate Palestinian obstinacy.” A peace agreement with Saudi Arabia was supposed to be the icing on the “peace for peace” cake that Netanyahu has spent years preparing.

Netanyahu did not invent the policy of separation between Gaza and the West Bank, nor the use of Hamas as a tool to weaken the Palestine Liberation Organization and its national ambitions to establish a Palestinian state. Then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s 2005 “disengagement” plan from Gaza was built on this logic. “This whole package called the Palestinian state has fallen off the agenda for an indefinite period of time,” said Dov Weissglas, Sharon’s advisor, explaining the political goal of disengagement at the time. “The plan provides the amount of formaldehyde required so that there will be no political process with the Palestinians.”

Netanyahu not only adopted this way of thinking, he also added to it the preservation of Hamas rule in Gaza as a tool for strengthening the separation between the strip and the West Bank. In 2018, for example, he agreed that Qatar would transfer millions of dollars a year to finance the Hamas government in Gaza, embodying the comments made in 2015 by Bezalel Smotrich (then a marginal Knesset member, and today the finance minister and de facto West Bank overlord) that “the Palestinian Authority is a burden and Hamas is an asset.”

 

“Netanyahu wants Hamas on its feet and is ready to pay an almost unimaginable price for it: half the country paralyzed, children and parents traumatized, houses bombed, people killed,” Israel’s current information minister, Galit Distel Atbaryan, wrote in May 2019, when she was yet to enter politics but was known as a prominent Netanyahu supporter. “And Netanyahu, in a kind of outrageous, almost unimaginable restraint, does not do the easiest thing: getting the IDF to overthrow the organization. 

“The question is, why?” Distel Atbaryan continued, before explaining: “If Hamas collapses, Abu Mazen [Mahmoud Abbas] may control the strip. If he controls it, there will be voices from the left that will encourage negotiations and a political solution and a Palestinian state, also in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank] … This is the real reason why Netanyahu does not eliminate the Hamas leader, everything else is bullshit.”

Indeed, Netanyahu himself had effectively admitted as much a couple of months before Distel Atbaryan made her comments, when he declared in a Likud meeting that “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas. This is part of our strategy, to isolate Palestinians in Gaza from Palestinians in Judea and Samaria.”

Strengthening the Gaza fence became another aspect of Netanyahu’s strategy. “The barrier will prevent terrorists from infiltrating our territory,” Netanyahu explained when he announced the start of work in 2019 to add an underground barrier that would end up costing more than NIS 3 billion. Two years later, Israeli journalist Ron Ben-Yishai wrote in Ynet that the ultimate goal of the fence, which was considered to be an impenetrable barrier for terrorists, is to “prevent a connection between Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in Judea and Samaria.”

 

On Saturday morning, that fence was torn down, and with it the broader Netanyahu doctrine — adopted by the Americans and many Arab states — that it is possible to make peace in the Middle East without the Palestinians. As hundreds of militants crossed the border unhindered on their way to occupy army posts and infiltrate dozens of Israeli communities as far as 18 miles away, Hamas declared in the most clear, painful, and murderous way possible that the conflict that threatens Israelis’ lives is the conflict with the Palestinians, and the idea that they can be bypassed via Riyadh or Abu Dhabi, or that the 2 million Palestinians imprisoned in Gaza will disappear if Israel builds a sufficiently elaborate fence, is an illusion that is now being shattered at a terrible human cost.

 

 

This is not necessarily good news. It is impossible not to define the actions of Hamas as war crimes: the massacre of civilians, the murder of entire families in their homes, the kidnapping of civilians including the elderly and children into captivity in Gaza — all of these violate the laws of war, and if the International Criminal Court does exercise its jurisdiction over Israel-Palestine, then those responsible for these actions will have to be prosecuted. In other words, Hamas’ “declaration” that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict still exists came at the price of the blood of hundreds of innocent people. 

It is also not necessarily good news because it seems that the conclusion Israel is currently drawing from the understanding that the conflict is here in Israel-Palestine, and not in Saudi Arabia, is to “overthrow Hamas” or “flatten Gaza.” Likud MK Ariel Kellner and right-wing journalist Yinon Magal likely represent a significant portion of the Israeli public — and certainly the government — when they call for the response to be another Nakba.

 

And yet, beyond the moral judgments, the attack by Hamas has brought all of us — especially the Israelis — back to reality, reminding us that the conflict began here, in 1948, and that no magic cure can make it disappear. And since Hamas, as strong and capable of surprises as it may be, cannot murder 7 million Jews, and since Israel — I believe — is not capable of carrying out another Nakba (or even recapturing Gaza), it is possible that from the trauma of the past few days will grow the idea that the conflict must be resolved on the basis of freedom, national and civic equality, and the end of the siege and the occupation. 

After the trauma of the 1973 war, which many are comparing to what is happening today, it dawned on Israelis that peace could come at the expense of withdrawing from the Egyptian territory it had occupied. The same realization can happen after the trauma of 2023.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by cedo

[roux senyurt]

polako se zateze i na severu. juce je idf likvidirao tri od cetiri pripadnika dzihada islami koji su presli ogradu iz libana. reakcija na upad je bila bombardovanje osmatracnica hizbale na granici, na libanskoj strani, gde su ubijeni cetiri pripadnika hizbale. reakcija na reakciju su sporadicne rakete hizbala ispaljene na sever izraela. ako nastavi ovako, uskoro ce se otvoriti novi front 

[Shan Jan]

57 minutes ago, Zaboravan said:

Waving Palestinian flag may be a criminal offence, Braverman tells police

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/10/people-supporting-hamas-in-uk-will-be-held-to-account-says-rishi-sunak?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Kako Zapad propada ubrzano od pocetka rata u Ukrajini. Prvo su dehumanizovali Ruse, blokirali im racune, otimali imovinu, branili njihovu zastavu... sada isto krecu sa Palestincima. Sve se svelo na cijoj je strani tvoja nacija, kao da je ovo 1939. Ako je na suprotnoj, cuti i budi srecan ako ti dozvole da zivis. Koja govna. Od kolevke demokratije, indvidiualizma, jednakosti, postovanja ljudskih prava i privatne svojine... svelo se na ovo. Koji totalni raspad majko mila. 

[Anduril]

U samo jednom kibucu, Kfar Aza, navodno pronadjeno oko 40 masakriranih beba i sitne dece. Krvave decje sobe i kreveti kruze netom - vidljivi su ocigledno sokirani vojnici i novinari a cenim to je to i Kirbi video juce kad je zaplakao na CNN. Sada se vec pitam, da li su ovo zaista ovako planirali ili je prosto izmaklo kontroli. Ovo je nepojmljivo, gore od ISIS-a, i totalno kontra palestinskih interesa.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Anduril

[cedo]

1 minute ago, Shan Jan said:

Kako Zapad propada ubrzano od pocetka rata u Ukrajini. Prvo su dehumanizovali Ruse, blokirali im racune, otimali imovinu, branili njihovu zastavu... sada isto krecu sa Palestincima. Sve se svelo na cijoj je strani tvoja nacija, kao da je ovo 1939. Ako je na suprotnoj, cuti i budi srecan ako ti dozvole da zivis. Koja govna. Od kolevke demokratije, indvidiualizma, jednakosti, postovanja ljudskih prava i privatne svojine... svelo se na ovo. Koji totalni raspad majko mila. 

 

evropska komisija je pozvala na prekid neprijateljstva i povratak mirovnom procesu

[Caligula]

11 minutes ago, freakns said:

srecom pa imamo tebe da nas obasjas suvim, nepristrasnim cinjenicama

da sutra neko spali Moskvu kao sto su nekada Drezden, ti bi vola na raznju okrenuo. a za tepih Gaze te vec vidim kako spremas opstenarodno veselje. 

upadi Ukrajinaca(odnosno njihovih paravojnih formacija) u oblast Belgoroda, to se ne racuna. tri godine pucanja i mesetarenja po Donbasu, pa za to su Rusi krivi, izazvali Krimom, inace ne bi toga bilo... ali u Gazi, e tu se istorija racuna od upada Hamasa u Izrael. do tada je bilo sve cvece i prolece. 

 

jebote, i jedan i drugi sukob su daleko kompleksniji od jebenog Putina i Hamasa. ja razumem da je najlakse nacrtati poster jedne osobe, gadjati ga pikadom i brisati guzicu sa njime, pa ondak kad peres zube uvece, pogleda se u ogledalo i samog sebe obavije oreolom pravednika i tapse se po ledjima. 

 

ps. daleko su i Hamas i Putin od cvecki. to su hohstapleri svetskog formata, barabe i najverovatnije ratni zlocinci. news flash! isto to su i Netanyaku i Zelenski. kao sto i Vucic ne igra sam, vec mu treba tamo neki Kurti, tako i ovima treba protivteza, inace bi plesali sami. 

 

Jos da pronadjes da sam napisao nesto sustinski drugacije od ovoga sto gore pises?

 

Ali stizes da ucitavas navodnu radost zbog spaljene Moskve.

 

Ovaj topik srecom nije "zao mi je Palestinaca ALI" jer koliko vidim svi (mozda par izuzetaka, jedan banovan) smo ovde, cak i nepomirljivi na drugim temama, protiv postupanja Izraela i bez "ALI".

 

Ovo tepih bombardovanje je genocidan, anticivilizacijski cin arogantne sile koji ce svakako doci na naplatu, karmicku ili realnu zabole me.

 

Za ovo poslednje se slazem, nisam ni rekao da Putin izdaje komande Hamasu vec da mu ovo i te kako odgovara.

 

Dakle ponavljam - ne ucitavaj.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Caligula

[Shan Jan]

A pitao sam se zasto Egipcani drze zatvorenu granicu prema Gazi... izgleda je mnogo komplikovano kao sve na Bliskom Istoku: https://www.newarab.com/news/egypt-indefinitely-closes-rafah-border-gaza#:~:text=Since 2007%2C Egypt and Israel,rules the occupied West Bank.

 

Quote

The Egyptian authorities shut down the Rafah border crossing in North Sinai with Gaza until further notice on Monday, 10 October, after ongoing Israeli air strikes hit the Palestinian side of the crossing. With the crossing now closed, the coastal enclave is in a total blockade of the Palestinian strip.

An initial closure of the crossing was imposed almost three days after the Hamas faction, which rules Gaza, had launched an ongoing wide-scale offensive against Israel, killing hundreds and capturing dozens of others, including army personnel.  

"The crossing will be closed indefinitely, for the situation has become quite dangerous after the Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip has had an impact on the Egyptian side of the crossing," a high-level official security source told The New Arab on condition of anonymity.

Unconfirmed reports said that Israel attacked the Egyptian part of the crossing earlier as Israeli news outlets reported that the Zionist state had previously warned it would attack any Egyptian trucks carrying fuel or other supplies to the Palestinians in Gaza.

No further details were immediately available at the time of publication.

Over the past hours, videos have gone viral depicting the bombing by Israel of the Rafah crossing in the southern part of Gaza.

The status of the crossing, Gaza's only connection to the outside world, has remained uncertain since Saturday, following Hamas's unprecedented military operation on Israel, as Egypt kept it open at some point for Gazans seeking refuge.

But, it has also been closed over fear for the lives of Egyptian and Palestinian border guards.

Meanwhile, another Egyptian security source, who asked to remain anonymous, told TNA that "a state of high alert had been declared on the borders with Gaza and Israel to ensure no attempts of infiltration by Palestinians into Egypt can take place."

A humanitarian crisis is expected to erupt at any given time, which will likely have a toll on Egypt, a country already undergoing economic turmoil and may be incapable of hosting more refugees.

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Since 2007, Egypt and Israel have imposed a strict blockade on Gaza after Hamas assumed power following clashes with the rival Fatah faction that rules the occupied West Bank.

It was not until nearly a decade later, when Hamas dropped its affiliation with the Muslim Brotherhood, a legally outlawed group in Egypt since 2014, that the Egyptian regime softened its tone towards the Palestinian faction.

Egypt and Israel have technically been at peace since 1978, sharing strong diplomatic and economic relations.

But the Egyptian people have been at loggerheads with successive Egyptian regimes over normalisation, as many consider Israel a coloniser of Palestine since the 1948 war, an oppressor of the Palestinian people, and a former occupier of the Sinai Peninsula.

 

TL;DR: Palestinci nemaju gde da pobegnu iz Gaze, nakon sto su im Izraelci velikodusno ponudili da se sklone ili umru.

[Zaboravan]

6 minutes ago, Shan Jan said:

A pitao sam se zasto Egipcani drze zatvorenu granicu prema Gazi... izgleda je mnogo komplikovano kao sve na Bliskom Istoku: https://www.newarab.com/news/egypt-indefinitely-closes-rafah-border-gaza#:~:text=Since 2007%2C Egypt and Israel,rules the occupied West Bank.

 

 

TL;DR: Palestinci nemaju gde da pobegnu iz Gaze, nakon sto su im Izraelci velikodusno ponudili da se sklone ili umru.

Pa 2X ga bombardovali. 

[kipo]

Agresija Moskve na Ukrajinu se ne moze ni na koji nacin porediti sa ovim sukobom/masakrom/genocidom. Ima topik za njih. 

[cedo]

 

 

 

 

[bejzbolka]

57 minutes ago, dragance said:

Necivilizacijski je i Hamas, kojima se jebe za palestince i bilo koga drugog. 

Jbg, Hamas nije drzava, oni su i oznaceni od velikog dela sveta kao teroristi. Izrael je ipak drzava, ima regualrnu vojsku, ne smeju da se ponasaju tako divlje.